Is Now The Time To Go Back To 1953 ?

245

Comments

  • edited May 2016 Posts: 108
    I think that the contemporary aspect of each Bond movie is the strength of the franchise. It allows each generation to identify with the character in its own age and better ensures the longevity of the series. Some of the most successful movies in the series, box-office wise, jumped on the "fashion of the day"-wagon (like Moonraker). They may not be the fans' favorites, but their box-office success allowed for new Bond-movies to be financed.

    Also, continuity-wise, making a period piece Bond would be hell for the writers. If it's situated in the 60's, do you take the Connery-storylines into account? As the movies often relate to one another in small details or dialogue-lines, do you let the period piece relate to DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT or OHMSS?

    Finally, I don't agree that this digital high-tech era doesn't allow for credible espionage-in-the-field storylines. Real life shows us quite different results: the tracing and capture of Bin Laden, the prevention of terrorist attacks, the uranium poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko all showed us field detective/espionage work remains important.

    Q: "I'll hazard I can do more damageon my laptop sitting in my pajamas before my first cup of Earl Grey than you can do in a year in the field."
    Bond: "Oh, so why do you need me?"
    Q: "Every now and then a trigger has to be pulled."
    Bond: "Or not pulled. It's hard to know which in your pajamas."

    Also, with all Bond-actors you get the definite idea espionage is a team-activity (other 00's are often mentioned, or other field agents like Ronson in SF). We only get to follow the one.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139

    doubleoego wrote: »
    It's not a fact.

    Your profile PIC says otherwise.

    Nope my profile pic facilitates an opinion that Connery looks cool. You're just confusing yourself with the distinction between fact and opinion.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It is Connery that is cool, not so much the cigarette.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Some say that living in a fantasy is what this chap called 'Fleming' did.

    Classic brands like Martini and Rolex wouldn't mind to be attached being attached to the series I take it. Nor would Bentley:
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2573099/New-small-Bentley-tempt-James-Bond-away-Aston-Martins-considered.html

    I agree it might be unconventional for the producers to go into the '60's. Yet, as he would put it, I think the stakes are right.

    Rolex will never pay to have their name/watches in a Bond film.
  • Posts: 108
    Smoking and wearing sunglasses are universally cool. B-)

    Ever seen "Keeping Up Appearances"? Onslow and Daisy with cigarette and sunglasses? Not that cool.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,087
    Smoking and wearing sunglasses are universally cool. B-)

    Ever seen "Keeping Up Appearances"? Onslow and Daisy with cigarette and sunglasses? Not that cool.

    But more cool than without.
  • Posts: 520
    Given the success of productions like Mad Men, Catch Me If You Can, X-Men: First Class and in a slightly more moderate aspect The Man From Uncle and Pam Am, there is definitely a good market potential for a period piece.

    Absolutely.
    A different genre but the success of 'Dowton Abbey' is a testimony to the commercial viability of period drama.
    The 1950s was , at the top of society, such a glamorous era and affords so many opportunities for creating something that is visually stunning.
  • Posts: 14,831
    Viewers got confused enough with the reboot. Heck, they were confused before the reboot, which brought us the codename theory.

    And even when they were written in the 1950s, Bond stories were not period pieces or historical dramas. Making them period pieces would add an extra risk of screwing it up: now we'd have to worry about a time period being authentically depicted.
  • Posts: 520
    Ludovico wrote: »

    And even when they were written in the 1950s, Bond stories were not period pieces or historical dramas. Making them period pieces would add an extra risk of screwing it up: now we'd have to worry about a time period being authentically depicted.

    I find this reasoning a little bizarre. Of course they weren't period pieces when written.
    Neither was Sherlock Holmes but the fact of the matter is that the character of James Bond reflected post war sensibilities and that was a big part of his appeal.

    As the movie franchise has developed it has taken Bond through multiple incarnations and we have long been at the point were the character bares scant relation to Fleming's creation.

    As a Fleming fan, I believe the time is right to return to the books and give movie audiences the real James Bond. I happen to believe that there would be a huge appetite for this because I think audiences are becoming more discerning, are liking a good story and are becoming increasingly fed up with this CGI nonsense and this politically correct stuff.

    Furthermore, as those of us that have read the books know, many of Fleming's stories remain basically untold and this in itself is a huge opportunity.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Like I said, you're living in a fantasy land if you think we're going to get a cinematic period piece Bond film. As long as these films are made as contemporary we're not going to see Bond smoke habitually ever again. Back in the day, it was cool to smoke and conveyed a level of status but this isn't 1969. Smoking has a very different general image now.

    As for the various ancillary product placements/sponsorships, they are a very big deal and pivotal to financing these movies in the first place. To dismiss them so trivially is short sighted and furthermore it's not looking for problems but just so happens to be an obvious one anyone who understands business can immediately recognise. You mentioned a bunch of period piece TV shows, which is fine and something I personally wouldn't mind BUT again, TV shows aren't theatrical cinema. UNCLE was essentially a flop and not a mumer of a sequel is on the table and X-men first class was great but was a one off as the subsequent movies left the 60s and time jumped, exploring the 70s in DoFp and now the 80s with Apocalypse. Mad Men was a great show but the series was 2 seasons too long for me. That level of writing and characterisation is something EoN should be paying an arm and a leg for but sadly I doubt we'll ever see such talent lend itself to Bond any time soon.

    Regarding keeping up with action, it doesn't need apocalyptic type destruction and ppintless explosions. Keep the focus more on great hand to hand combat, actual car chases and an explosion here and there and you're sorted. Create and build tension and suspense, lets feel the gravity of whats at stake. This is possible for television because just look to TV shows like 24; that approach for action scale should be the ceiling and it's overall production value to adapt the Bond novels is beyond capable.

    Smoking still looks cool, that's a fact.

    Ouch, buddy, not when you see the result: My dad was consumed by cancer. He was a smoker. There are many more like me who have seen how "cool" smoking is.

    Mendes, how old are you?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,980
    I agree that visually smoking looks cool; it literally creates an atmosphere, a mood. With that said, knowing the devastating effects it can and does have, I don't look at it the same way. Oh, and I'm 53
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I wouldn't mind a television show with Bond in the 1950's. Something on Showtime or the like, so it wouldn't be censored. I do want the films to continue moving forward though. I think it would actually be pretty great to have both but I doubt it will ever happen.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    talos7 wrote: »
    I agree that visually smoking looks cool; it literally creates an atmosphere, a mood. With that said, knowing the devastating effects it can and does have, I don't look at it the same way. Oh, and I'm 53
    "Filthy habit."
    Love Brosnan there. He was quitting at the time I hear...
    :))
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,087
    peter wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Like I said, you're living in a fantasy land if you think we're going to get a cinematic period piece Bond film. As long as these films are made as contemporary we're not going to see Bond smoke habitually ever again. Back in the day, it was cool to smoke and conveyed a level of status but this isn't 1969. Smoking has a very different general image now.

    As for the various ancillary product placements/sponsorships, they are a very big deal and pivotal to financing these movies in the first place. To dismiss them so trivially is short sighted and furthermore it's not looking for problems but just so happens to be an obvious one anyone who understands business can immediately recognise. You mentioned a bunch of period piece TV shows, which is fine and something I personally wouldn't mind BUT again, TV shows aren't theatrical cinema. UNCLE was essentially a flop and not a mumer of a sequel is on the table and X-men first class was great but was a one off as the subsequent movies left the 60s and time jumped, exploring the 70s in DoFp and now the 80s with Apocalypse. Mad Men was a great show but the series was 2 seasons too long for me. That level of writing and characterisation is something EoN should be paying an arm and a leg for but sadly I doubt we'll ever see such talent lend itself to Bond any time soon.

    Regarding keeping up with action, it doesn't need apocalyptic type destruction and ppintless explosions. Keep the focus more on great hand to hand combat, actual car chases and an explosion here and there and you're sorted. Create and build tension and suspense, lets feel the gravity of whats at stake. This is possible for television because just look to TV shows like 24; that approach for action scale should be the ceiling and it's overall production value to adapt the Bond novels is beyond capable.

    Smoking still looks cool, that's a fact.

    Ouch, buddy, not when you see the result: My dad was consumed by cancer. He was a smoker. There are many more like me who have seen how "cool" smoking is.

    Mendes, how old are you?

    I didn't say smoking was cool, I said it looked cool. Smoking looks cool. So does wearing sun glasses. B-)
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Given the success of productions like Mad Men, Catch Me If You Can, X-Men: First Class and in a slightly more moderate aspect The Man From Uncle and Pam Am, there is definitely a good market potential for a period piece.

    Absolutely.
    A different genre but the success of 'Dowton Abbey' is a testimony to the commercial viability of period drama.
    The 1950s was , at the top of society, such a glamorous era and affords so many opportunities for creating something that is visually stunning.

    This is exactly what I was talking about. Bond would be a huge success as a period mini-series
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    People who watch Jeremy Kyle, reality TV and love fake tan think smoking is cool.
    That's a Fact !
    ( Isn't it great to state things as Facts with nothing to back it up but opinion ) :))
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    My main gripe with period Bond is that we’re already privy to what a period Bond would look like. As noted previously on this thread, less knowledgeable viewers could be forgiven for thinking DN and FRWL are products of the fifties, in terms of technique, shooting style, cinematography and so on, with GF firmly establishing a sixties aesthetic. You cannot replicate either look without a slavish adherence to technique, cinematography, costume/production design… you risk ending up with a hazy, half-remembered visual language that is born of nostalgia rather than authenticity. Next to the genuine entries of that period it would pale in comparison.

    I’ve always thought a black and white one-off based on MR (as a TV special) would be a welcome anomaly, with impeccable attention to detail and adhering to the less action-oriented flavour of that period, but this idea of going back and recreating the novels and transposing the content (as one poster put it) “word for word”, sounds like fanwankery at its worst.

    If you want fifties Bond, read Fleming. It doesn’t and never will get better than that.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm guessing obviously, but if Fleming had have wanted Bond as a period piece
    he'd have set the books in the 30s. I think he wanted a contemporary, relivent
    agent for the times. :)
  • Posts: 14,831
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Viewers got confused enough with the reboot. Heck, they were confused before the reboot, which brought us the codename theory.

    /quote]

    That silliness predates the reboot.

    I know I meant the confusion with by change of actors brought up the codename theory.

    @PussyNoMore I've read Fleming and I am all in favour of getting back to it as much as possible.But if it means creating period pieces let's not forget other things that should go with it to be faithful to the literary source: far less action, Bond doing sometimes very little and not even firing a gun or fighting physically anyone, a lot of time spent on food and drinks, some plots (TSWLM for instance) being very atypical and not even spy thrillers, etc. Come to think of it, literary Bond would be more closely adapted on stage than screen.

    And unlike Bond, Sherlock Holmes was never "centralized" into one single franchise when adapted to the cinema and other mediums.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    It is Connery that is cool, not so much the cigarette.

    Hit the nail on the head. Plenty of degenerate scallys in the UK smoke (have yellow teeth and bad skin). But I wouldn't class that as cool. Some cool people smoke though. But the act itself is largely pointless in todays society.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    If you want fifties Bond, read Fleming. It doesn’t and never will get better than that.

    Well said.
  • Posts: 4,325
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Like I said, you're living in a fantasy land if you think we're going to get a cinematic period piece Bond film. As long as these films are made as contemporary we're not going to see Bond smoke habitually ever again. Back in the day, it was cool to smoke and conveyed a level of status but this isn't 1969. Smoking has a very different general image now.

    As for the various ancillary product placements/sponsorships, they are a very big deal and pivotal to financing these movies in the first place. To dismiss them so trivially is short sighted and furthermore it's not looking for problems but just so happens to be an obvious one anyone who understands business can immediately recognise. You mentioned a bunch of period piece TV shows, which is fine and something I personally wouldn't mind BUT again, TV shows aren't theatrical cinema. UNCLE was essentially a flop and not a mumer of a sequel is on the table and X-men first class was great but was a one off as the subsequent movies left the 60s and time jumped, exploring the 70s in DoFp and now the 80s with Apocalypse. Mad Men was a great show but the series was 2 seasons too long for me. That level of writing and characterisation is something EoN should be paying an arm and a leg for but sadly I doubt we'll ever see such talent lend itself to Bond any time soon.

    Regarding keeping up with action, it doesn't need apocalyptic type destruction and ppintless explosions. Keep the focus more on great hand to hand combat, actual car chases and an explosion here and there and you're sorted. Create and build tension and suspense, lets feel the gravity of whats at stake. This is possible for television because just look to TV shows like 24; that approach for action scale should be the ceiling and it's overall production value to adapt the Bond novels is beyond capable.

    Bond smokes.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,808
    I'm guessing obviously, but if Fleming had have wanted Bond as a period piece
    he'd have set the books in the 30s. I think he wanted a contemporary, relivent
    agent for the times. :)

    Exactly.
  • Posts: 14,831
    If they want Bond to be set in the 50s, let's go the whole way: cut down the action, like, a lot, get rid of the gadgets altogether (or the vast majority of them), have most of the movies spent talking, eating, drinking, watching the scenery, spend a lot of focus on inanimate objects or animals, have Bond draw his gun every other movie, etc. I am all for it, it would make for very challenging cinema, but not exactly what most people, including those advocating for a retro Bond, expect from a Bond movie. Because while Fleming was a master craftsman, he knew how to write thriller and while not Dickens he knew to write literature, he did not write movies. Not one bit. This is the greatest irony of his legacy: he gave us the greatest cinematic icon... While the source material is almost anti cinema.
  • Posts: 520
    Ludovico wrote: »
    If they want Bond to be set in the 50s, let's go the whole way: cut down the action, like, a lot, get rid of the gadgets altogether (or the vast majority of them), have most of the movies spent talking, eating, drinking, watching the scenery, spend a lot of focus on inanimate objects or animals, have Bond draw his gun every other movie, etc. I am all for it, it would make for very challenging cinema, but not exactly what most people, including those advocating for a retro Bond, expect from a Bond movie. Because while Fleming was a master craftsman, he knew how to write thriller and while not Dickens he knew to write literature, he did not write movies. Not one bit. This is the greatest irony of his legacy: he gave us the greatest cinematic icon... While the source material is almost anti cinema.

    I'm not sure I agree with this synopsis.
    Of course Fleming didn't write movies - he wrote novels.That doesn't mean they can't be adapted without being destroyed.
    Probably one of the best examples of adapting thriller novel's for the big screen has to be Fred Zinnemman's 1973 version of Frederick Forsyth's masterpiece 'The Day Of The Jackal'.
    It was perfect in every way. The casting was spot on. It was brilliantly shot. It remained faithful to the novel whilst moving like a rocket.
    When I imagine 'Moonraker' adapted with the same forensic detail, I get goose bumps and have no doubt that it would be a huge critical and commercial success with the right director.
    In fact, when I think about the job that Sam Mendes did with 'The Road To Perdition', he would be a good choice for the project.

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    we already have period Bond movies - DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS..

    i understand the novelty of wanting to see Bond as Fleming imagined him in a 1953 setting - but it wouldn't work... so much of this series is already tied to it's ghosts of the past, that actually going backwards and doing a series with an actor in the 50s would be a detriment...

    the truth is, Fleming wrote Bond as a man of his time - that time being present day.. the only difference is that the present day back then was 1953, and as Fleming continued writing the character, he set the time period accordingly to present day, and didn't keep him confined to one specific moment in time... and as such, Bond should always be rooted in the here and now... I've already seen how Bond would handle the 50s/60s - and every decade moving forward... and in the future, I want to see Bond battling the demons of our time, rather than being stuck in the past simply for nostalgia sake.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Like I said, you're living in a fantasy land if you think we're going to get a cinematic period piece Bond film. As long as these films are made as contemporary we're not going to see Bond smoke habitually ever again. Back in the day, it was cool to smoke and conveyed a level of status but this isn't 1969. Smoking has a very different general image now.

    As for the various ancillary product placements/sponsorships, they are a very big deal and pivotal to financing these movies in the first place. To dismiss them so trivially is short sighted and furthermore it's not looking for problems but just so happens to be an obvious one anyone who understands business can immediately recognise. You mentioned a bunch of period piece TV shows, which is fine and something I personally wouldn't mind BUT again, TV shows aren't theatrical cinema. UNCLE was essentially a flop and not a mumer of a sequel is on the table and X-men first class was great but was a one off as the subsequent movies left the 60s and time jumped, exploring the 70s in DoFp and now the 80s with Apocalypse. Mad Men was a great show but the series was 2 seasons too long for me. That level of writing and characterisation is something EoN should be paying an arm and a leg for but sadly I doubt we'll ever see such talent lend itself to Bond any time soon.

    Regarding keeping up with action, it doesn't need apocalyptic type destruction and ppintless explosions. Keep the focus more on great hand to hand combat, actual car chases and an explosion here and there and you're sorted. Create and build tension and suspense, lets feel the gravity of whats at stake. This is possible for television because just look to TV shows like 24; that approach for action scale should be the ceiling and it's overall production value to adapt the Bond novels is beyond capable.

    Bond smokes.

    How insightful.
  • Posts: 4,325
    doubleoego wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Like I said, you're living in a fantasy land if you think we're going to get a cinematic period piece Bond film. As long as these films are made as contemporary we're not going to see Bond smoke habitually ever again. Back in the day, it was cool to smoke and conveyed a level of status but this isn't 1969. Smoking has a very different general image now.

    As for the various ancillary product placements/sponsorships, they are a very big deal and pivotal to financing these movies in the first place. To dismiss them so trivially is short sighted and furthermore it's not looking for problems but just so happens to be an obvious one anyone who understands business can immediately recognise. You mentioned a bunch of period piece TV shows, which is fine and something I personally wouldn't mind BUT again, TV shows aren't theatrical cinema. UNCLE was essentially a flop and not a mumer of a sequel is on the table and X-men first class was great but was a one off as the subsequent movies left the 60s and time jumped, exploring the 70s in DoFp and now the 80s with Apocalypse. Mad Men was a great show but the series was 2 seasons too long for me. That level of writing and characterisation is something EoN should be paying an arm and a leg for but sadly I doubt we'll ever see such talent lend itself to Bond any time soon.

    Regarding keeping up with action, it doesn't need apocalyptic type destruction and ppintless explosions. Keep the focus more on great hand to hand combat, actual car chases and an explosion here and there and you're sorted. Create and build tension and suspense, lets feel the gravity of whats at stake. This is possible for television because just look to TV shows like 24; that approach for action scale should be the ceiling and it's overall production value to adapt the Bond novels is beyond capable.

    Bond smokes.

    How insightful.

    Yes, distressing that I had to point it out.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    But he doesn't inhale. :D
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