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The Nadir of the Bond Franchise?

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  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's leather jacket is awful.
    identigraph wrote: »
    Ah yes, the leather jacket. Why they chose to take a man of advancing years and put him in a leather jacket and suede Zorin jacket thingy for much of the film is mystery to me. Should have stuck to the suits but there you go.
    Am I the only one who actually likes Moore's leather jacket in AVTAK? Surely there must be someone else out there?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If he was younger, like in the 70s, maybe it would've suited him better, like in Street People or The Persuaders!. But, in A View To A Kill, it just looks off.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Or, some of us aren't as old as a lot of the members here, so we're going off of what we know. I can't say there was a nadir of the franchise in the 70's or 80's, as I wasn't around then. I only came to know of Bond once TND was the new entry and TWINE was growing closer to release. Thus, I have GE - SP to work with, so from there, while I still love the film, I'd say the nadir of the franchise for me is some of the stuff we saw in DAD, particularly those cringe-worthy scenes, awful dialogue, and even worse CG: something that shouldn't have been in a Bond film to begin with. That, for me, is the major low point that should only be brought up as a learning lesson, not something to ape and copy.
    Let Geezerisall list if for ya-
    DAF was widely loved. I didn't know it back then because it was my first Bond, but it made Bond fun, and the audiences liked that.
    LALD was also highly regarded.
    TMWTGG was fairly well received, but regarded as a bit bland.
    TSWLM was the Jaws of the franchise (no pun intended, actually).
    MR was very popular, and more kids attended it than any other by my reckoning (boy did I personally hate it though).
    FYEO was big with us hard core-ers, and did pretty well with the audiences of the time.
    OP was another big hit.
    AVTAK was a "Well, I haven't seen that, let's go" movie- the Song by Duran Duran probably brought more people to the threatres than actual word of mouth.
    TLD was big because of hey- A NEW BOND!!
    LTK was the semi-failure. It disappeared behind Indy, Riggs, Murtaugh and the Bat.
    GE was THE movie to see back then!
    TND was a lot of fun & very popular.
    TWINE was a mixed bag, but still it was Bond...
    DAD was huge, because like DAF before it, it brought the fun back (I personally thought it was just okay back then).

    The rest you kids know.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    pachazo wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's leather jacket is awful.
    identigraph wrote: »
    Ah yes, the leather jacket. Why they chose to take a man of advancing years and put him in a leather jacket and suede Zorin jacket thingy for much of the film is mystery to me. Should have stuck to the suits but there you go.
    Am I the only one who actually likes Moore's leather jacket in AVTAK? Surely there must be someone else out there?

    I dig it.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,984
    Again, great to see the civilized discussion keeping up.

    I have an interesting question to ask - does having a critically failed but commercially successful film immediately jeopardize Bond's future, or is Bond's future jeopardized by other things? For example, does having an MR or DAD immediately place Bond's future in harm, or does it not? These are films where Bond's creative side is often said to be his lowest, yet the box office intakes in this films were (without adjustment for inflation) the highest of all Bond films up to their time.

    Perhaps this leads to another question - do you guys trust EoN to be able to rectify missteps they make like MR and DAD? I know some people don't view those films to be bad or missteps, as such, but you can't deny their critical failure and their commercial success in spite of that.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    It makes him look like an ageing uncle though rather than a spy I think.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It makes him look like an ageing uncle though rather than a spy I think.

    Yeah on my last Bondathon I concluded that AVTAK was the least Bondian for that reason. It seemed odd having grandad Bond tucking Stacey into bed.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    It makes him look like an ageing uncle though rather than a spy I think.

    Yeah on my last Bondathon I concluded that AVTAK was the least Bondian for that reason. It seemed odd having grandad Bond tucking Stacey into bed.

    He's the same age as my mum at the moment so I don't know if I'd call him "granddad". However, he just doesn't feel very credible as a spy here.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,043
    Definitely DAF - MWTGG but then SWLM was a bit of a fluke and possibly FYEO but then that was pretty silly.

    I'll always hold the opinion that Spy was Rog's best film, he was the right age and just perfect in his interpretation.

    I don't really rate his era but he got it so right here, I just can't be doing with letchy Grandpa Bond though. Moore might be a gentleman in real life but from MR onwards there is something very creepy about his Bond.

    I don't like the PB era but GE despite my personal opinion was an attempt to take the character in new direction but come TND we get a lazy SWLM rip off followed by one of most wildly jarring tonally of the series and of course DAD.

    I know it's a cliche but 97 - 2002 definitely a nadir just like 1971-74.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    I don't think there was anything creepy about Moore in FYEO.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    I don't think there was anything creepy about Moore in FYEO.

    Me neither, nor OP.

    He's at his creepiest in MWTGG ("give orrr....take a little") and AVTAK ("feels even better from where I'm sitting...would you like it harder?")

  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    Again, great to see the civilized discussion keeping up.

    I have an interesting question to ask - does having a critically failed but commercially successful film immediately jeopardize Bond's future, or is Bond's future jeopardized by other things? For example, does having an MR or DAD immediately place Bond's future in harm, or does it not? These are films where Bond's creative side is often said to be his lowest, yet the box office intakes in this films were (without adjustment for inflation) the highest of all Bond films up to their time.

    Perhaps this leads to another question - do you guys trust EoN to be able to rectify missteps they make like MR and DAD? I know some people don't view those films to be bad or missteps, as such, but you can't deny their critical failure and their commercial success in spite of that.

    EON would naturally rectify the mistake, I'm sure. But we shouldn't make those missteps in the first place.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @Bain123 - I remember reading a review of LALD where the reviewer commented that the way Bond charmed Solitaire into bed with him made him look like a sexual predator.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    I don't think there was anything creepy about Moore in FYEO.

    Of course not the whole Bibi thing thats not questionable at all.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Shardlake wrote: »
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    I don't think there was anything creepy about Moore in FYEO.

    Of course not the whole Bibi thing thats not questionable at all.

    He does turn her advances down you know.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @Shardlake - Uh, Bond rejects Bibi.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Keep telling yourself the whole thing isn't creepy, anyway the whole Stacey Sutton thing is just plain wrong.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @Shardlake - Yes, I've often said Moore and Sutton together is unbearable. But Bond rejecting Bibi is not creepy in any measure.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    "Put your clothes on, and I'll buy you an ice cream."

    :))
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    I find Bibi creepy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I didn't find Bibi creepy at all, because as others have said, Moore rejected her.

    Yes, the Stacy scenario seemed creepy but that was also because of the St. John Smythe disguise, which in itself was a little greasy, and I've said before should not have been used for Moore at that age in that film with Stacy as the 'victim'. It emphasized the 'dirty old man' aspect.

    The disguise worked well to play off of Tibbet due to Macnee's age but bombed with Stacy, again due to age (but in this case due to the difference in age rather than the similarity).
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Yes, Bibi is the creepy one.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Yes Moore isn't creepy, Bibi is - she would freak me out - you gotta play it cool ya know, she was practically begging him to sleep with her.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yes Moore isn't creepy, Bibi is - she would freak me out - you gotta play it cool ya know, she was practically begging him to sleep with her.
    I'd have taken her up on it, with reservations. I commend Moore for holding 'firm' despite provocation.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yes isn't creepy, Bibi is - she would freak me out - you gotta play it cool ya know, she was practically begging him to sleep with her.
    I'd have taken her up on it, with reservations. I commend Moore for holding 'firm' despite provocation.

    In those temperate the slightest stimulation is enough to make you firm. Can't blame Moore for that.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Bibi really reminds me of young Lucy Ewing in the first two seasons of Dallas where she repeatedly seduced Ray Krebbs.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,424
    This is me everytime I watch that Bibi scene

    tumblr_nyqx7a1vY71u9zrhbo1_400.jpg
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Bibi'sh a whore! =))
    29f9cb6ba4650acd72d8d81d3e557000.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    Bibi'sh a whore! =))
    29f9cb6ba4650acd72d8d81d3e557000.jpg
    Sucker Punch, @Murdock! :))
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