The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • I've been urging a 3rd party vote from any who can't stomach the choices offered up by the the 2 majors since I first started posting in this thread. Personally, I don't think Hillary's anywhere near as bad a choice as her opponents paint her to be and I DO think Donald is just as bad as his detractors posit (if not worse --hey, I thought I was joking last Sunday when I posted about Donald's ties to Russian intelligence!), so it's not a problem for me...but I do agree the stranglehold the 2 major parties have on our political system needs to be broken. I'll be happy to see Gary Johnson on the debate stage if he can make it up there.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I just read a facebook post where a guy went on a rant concerning "A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump" and he said (basically):
    "Excuse me if we don't feel like wading into a river of shit. We will vote for the best candidate. That's Democracy. If the DNC wanted to win, they shouldn't have sabotaged their best bet (Bernie). Shame on you for trying to shame us into voting the way YOU want us to."

    Thoughts?

    I agree with it. The DNC seems content to try and win this election by convincing the american public to "settle" for what they perceive to be the lesser of two evil. In my opinion that strategy will lose them the election. The republicans will turn out in record numbers this time, not just because they like Trump (many don't), but because they hate Hillary with a passion. After 8 long years, many will see it as a golden opportunity. Meanwhile on the Dem side, all the enthusiasm has been sucked out of the room. Bernie appealed overwhelmingly to the young, and its the young that win it for the democrats. Add to that the fact that Trumps anti-globalist message appeals highly in crucial swing states and I have to give Trump the edge.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I do not know how to change the system, @chrisisall. But we need to. We cannot do it without from within it, in my opinion.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Here's a funny video :-P:

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    I do not know how to change the system, @chrisisall. But we need to. We cannot do it without from within it, in my opinion.
    Agreed. And that was a 'HUGE' part of Bernie's message to us.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I've been urging a 3rd party vote from any who can't stomach the choices offered up by the the 2 majors since I first started posting in this thread. Personally, I don't think Hillary's anywhere near as bad a choice as her opponents paint her to be and I DO think Donald is just as bad as his detractors posit (if not worse --hey, I thought I was joking last Sunday when I posted about Donald's ties to Russian intelligence!), so it's not a problem for me...but I do agree the stranglehold the 2 major parties have on our political system needs to be broken. I'll be happy to see Gary Johnson on the debate stage if he can make it up there.

    I think he has a chance. Heck, I think if I were Hillary Clinton I'd beg for his inclusion into the debates regardless of whether he reaches the 15%. Johnson has already shown that he's willing to go after Trump pretty hard, but hasn't really criticized Clinton all that much. I've even seen him decline to do so when given the opportunity. The two of them could really unload on Trump.

    According to one poll, Johnson only trails Trump by 3% in Utah, which could be in play to be the first state won by a non-major party candidate since George Wallace in 1968. He's polling between 10 and 13% nationally, depending on where you get your information, so he has a chance to reach 15%. Additionally, in a (regrettably) non-scientific poll of military personnel, Johnson actually leads with 38.7% versus 30.9% for Trump and 14.1% for Clinton.

    So, there is reason for hope on the third party front. The main focus that Johnson, Weld, and their teams need to have moving forward is getting to that 15% mark. If they can get there, this already interesting election could become even more so.

  • Posts: 11,119
    And now a funny one for the Trump supporters :-P:
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    Guys, I think we are being played:

    trumphill.jpg

    =)) (I have loved this photo ever since I first saw it about a year ago.)
  • Posts: 1,631
    Funny.

    The somewhat humorous thing about the Trump Wall is that it's pretty much already been exposed as being something that wouldn't be all that effective against someone that really wants to get across it anyway. If they make it 30 feet tall, then 31 foot ladders will start being sold in Mexico for those that want to scale it.

    Trump himself even gave those wanting to climb it a way to safely do so. When he talked about making the wall tall enough to be potentially effective, he had this to say: "there's no ladder going over that. If they ever go up there, they're in trouble, because here's no way to get down. Maybe a rope."

    Trump talks about how much the government racks up in debt and he's going to spend billions of dollars on something that won't be the least bit effective other than stoking a rather empty nationalist pride.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Bernie wasn't all that convincing to me when he was singing Hillary's praises (either when he endorsed her or when he did his convention speech). The passion that he showed during the campaign and which naturally emanated from him was gone and I think some of his supporters will and did feel that.

    I don't see Johnson making any of the debates and believe he will be a minor protest vote at the end of the day. Both parties will attempt to resist him because they really won't want to take the risk of a spoiler on election night.

    The Democrats are forecasting that this will be close all the way to the end, and are betting on a far superior targeted 'data driven' turn out the vote operation (mastered by Obama and also used by Cruz to great effect) in the swing states to pull it out in the end (despite an obvious enthusiasm gap and conversely a demographic advantage). I think they will win it in the end if they are right and polling is close come November. However, I don't see what more they can do to improve their candidate's perception in the minds of voters. I think that will peak tonight.

    I believe that Trump, despite all of his attempts to do otherwise, still has more of a chance to turn perceptions around, among undecideds and others. If he can demonstrate some prowess and knowledge in those debates (which will be crucial this year) and if that translates into a lead after them, then I don't believe any turnout the vote operation will make a difference.

    Ultimately, he wears the change banner this year, and the enthusiasm banner. To win, he will have to close the competence and risk barrier.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Guys, it's official, the Democratic Party has become the party of antisemites. "Protesters torch Israeli flag outside Democratic National Convention" http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Protester-torch-Israeli-flag-outside-Democratic-National-Convention-462504

    @dalton No border barrier will keep 100% of potential illegal immigrants out, but they do work. The border barrier DOES work in Israel and it DOES work in Hungary. Relevant: https://i.redditmedia.com/aM8j0TbzLOo4-e8MIedh-6NpRKNbFZXKODFMk0w2Bk8.jpg?w=1024&s=1062de080ce9b7607b63cb33e2fed271
  • Posts: 11,119
    Guys, it's official, the Democratic Party has become the party of antisemites. "Protesters torch Israeli flag outside Democratic National Convention" http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Protester-torch-Israeli-flag-outside-Democratic-National-Convention-462504

    You would probably burn the rainbow flag.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    dalton wrote: »
    Funny.

    The somewhat humorous thing about the Trump Wall is that it's pretty much already been exposed as being something that wouldn't be all that effective against someone that really wants to get across it anyway. If they make it 30 feet tall, then 31 foot ladders will start being sold in Mexico for those that want to scale it.

    Trump himself even gave those wanting to climb it a way to safely do so. When he talked about making the wall tall enough to be potentially effective, he had this to say: "there's no ladder going over that. If they ever go up there, they're in trouble, because here's no way to get down. Maybe a rope."

    Trump talks about how much the government racks up in debt and he's going to spend billions of dollars on something that won't be the least bit effective other than stoking a rather empty nationalist pride.

    Are you kidding me? There's literally millions of solutions to this "problem". Just put a bunch of barbed wire at the bottom on the US side. Problem solved. That stuffs dirt cheap too.

    With modern infrared technology, one guy in a pickup can patrol miles of the border on his lonesome. This is a complete non-issue.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Guys, it's official, the Democratic Party has become the party of antisemites. "Protesters torch Israeli flag outside Democratic National Convention" http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Protester-torch-Israeli-flag-outside-Democratic-National-Convention-462504
    So, anti-Israeli GOVERNMENT automatically translates to anti-semite? Huh. I did not know that. Kind of like how anti-ISIL translates to anti-Muslim, I guess....
    :-?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The Great Wall is more symbolic than anything else. It sends a message, that's all. It's not meant to be an Israeli type deterrent.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    @Gustav_Graves It's very despicable and hatful of you to write that. I have never been anti-gay in my life and have never written anything bad about gay people here. No, I would never burn the rainbow flag.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    The protesters burning any flag do not speak for the majority of Democrats or the Democratic convention. But you know that already. :)
  • Posts: 4,619
    chrisisall wrote: »
    So, anti-Israeli GOVERNMENT automatically translates to anti-semite? Huh. I did not know that. Kind of like how anti-ISIL translates to anti-Muslim, I guess....
    :-?
    Equating a terrorist organization to the democratically elected governtment of the only country of the Jewish people... Nice!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Guys, it's official, the Democratic Party has become the party of antisemites. "Protesters torch Israeli flag outside Democratic National Convention" http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Protester-torch-Israeli-flag-outside-Democratic-National-Convention-462504
    At least they're not burning the American flag, like some idiot did outside the RNC, and almost set herself alight in the process.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/20/arrests-flag-burning-protest-republican-national-convention/87357036/
  • The protesters burning any flag do not speak for the majority of Democrats or the Democratic convention. But you know that already. :)

    Yes, they know that. But that's not going to stop them from posting nonsense. As was said awhile earlier here: "Guys, I think we're being played..."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    chrisisall wrote: »
    So, anti-Israeli GOVERNMENT automatically translates to anti-semite? Huh. I did not know that. Kind of like how anti-ISIL translates to anti-Muslim, I guess....
    :-?
    Equating a terrorist organization to the democratically elected governtment of the only country of the Jewish people... Nice!
    Miss the point why don't you?
    Oh.
    You did.

    :))
  • @chris: You want something to the point? See my reply to @4Ever, just above. The nonsense is getting thick & desperate in certain segments of this thread. Let's adjourn to ...elsewhere...
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Guys, it's official, the Democratic Party has become the party of antisemites. "Protesters torch Israeli flag outside Democratic National Convention" http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Protester-torch-Israeli-flag-outside-Democratic-National-Convention-462504
    At least they're not burning the American flag, like some idiot did outside the RNC, and almost set herself alight in the process.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/20/arrests-flag-burning-protest-republican-national-convention/87357036/

    C'mon, @bondjames, you at least know better than this. The protestors outside a convention do not speak for the convention they are protesting at. Doesn't matter if they're protesting against Rs or Ds. Doesn't matter if they're burning an Israeli flag or an American one...or, oh hey, let's go burn a Russian flag outside a Wiki hdqtrs, that's sure to muddle things up nicely!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @BeatlesSanEarmuffs, perhaps you missed my point. I didn't say that they were speaking for the convention and I'm surprised you took my post to mean that. To me, someone burning an Israeli flag should not be as big of a deal as someone burning an American flag on US soil, but regardless.

    In my opinion anyone who burns any country's flag (any country) is an absolute idiot. It's an insult to a whole nation. I would be quite happy if they are locked up for at least a day to reflect on the sheer stupidity of their actions. There's protesting and there's idiocy. This is most certainly the latter.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BeatlesSanEarmuffs, perhaps you missed my point. I didn't say that they were speaking for the convention and I'm surprised you took my post to mean that. To me, someone burning an Israeli flag should not be as big of a deal as someone burning an American flag on US soil, but regardless.

    In my opinion anyone who burns any country's flag (any country) is an absolute idiot. It's an insult to a whole nation. I would be quite happy if they are locked up for at least a day to reflect on the sheer stupidity of their actions. There's protesting and there's idiocy. This is most certainly the latter.
    Not a fan of free speech, I see...
    :-$
  • Looks like there's a lot of point missing going on around here. Perhaps we all ought to try listening to one another a little more closely...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BeatlesSanEarmuffs, perhaps you missed my point. I didn't say that they were speaking for the convention and I'm surprised you took my post to mean that. To me, someone burning an Israeli flag should not be as big of a deal as someone burning an American flag on US soil, but regardless.

    In my opinion anyone who burns any country's flag (any country) is an absolute idiot. It's an insult to a whole nation. I would be quite happy if they are locked up for at least a day to reflect on the sheer stupidity of their actions. There's protesting and there's idiocy. This is most certainly the latter.
    Not a fan of free speech, I see...
    :-$
    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free speech. In fact, I encourage it. Burning a flag is vandalism however and an insult to what should be a nation's pride. To me, that crosses a line and is not helping the protester. Same goes for violence at protests.
  • What exactly IS free speech? According to the Supreme Court, the spending of money is a form of speech. According to me, money isn't free, therefore it can't be speech. Can an act of destruction that's done symbolically -- like burning a flag -- be a form of speech? I don't know, I've never burned a flag, but I have spent money...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2016 Posts: 17,691
    bondjames wrote: »
    Burning a flag is vandalism however and an insult to what should be a nation's pride.

    Pride goeth before the B.S.
    What we need is a little more humility IMO.
    In JHS the common taunt was "Hey- I f**ked your Mom last night." My response was always "No, you didn't." You can only provoke those who are insecure. Sticks & stones, mate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Burning a flag is vandalism however and an insult to what should be a nation's pride.

    Pride goeth before the B.S.
    What we need is a little more humility IMO.
    In JHS the common taunt was "Hey- I f**ked your Mom last night." My response was always "No, you didn't." You can only provoke those who are insecure. Sticks & stones, yo.
    I believe there are better ways to make one's point than what those 'protesters' were caught doing. They of course have the right to do what they want under the law (as far as I know), but in my view, they just look ridiculous, and don't help their cause, especially when one bunch almost burned themselves alive while attempting their little stunt.
    What exactly IS free speech? According to the Supreme Court, the spending of money is a form of speech. According to me, money isn't free, therefore it can't be speech. Can an act of destruction that's done symbolically -- like burning a flag -- be a form of speech? I don't know, I've never burned a flag, but I have spent money...
    The Supreme court also says that electioneering by Corporations is allowed so sadly they aren't all the credible on the free speech thing.
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