What next for Madeleine Swann

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    The general public doesn't care about Madeline. She was a failed experiment. Bringing her back would be a mistake.

    Totally agree.

    When she tells Bond she loves him during the torture sequence, the audience laughed out loud. That was outright silly.

    Not here. The Swiss understood that Madeleine in that instant wanted to make James feel better in his darkest hour. Nobody laughed but was touched.
    Love is stronger than anything else. She is a woman, by the way, they behave irrational.
  • Posts: 14,859
    The general public doesn't care about Madeline. She was a failed experiment. Bringing her back would be a mistake.

    Totally agree.

    When she tells Bond she loves him during the torture sequence, the audience laughed out loud. That was outright silly.

    Not here. The Swiss understood that Madeleine in that instant wanted to make James feel better in his darkest hour. Nobody laughed but was touched.
    Love is stronger than anything else. She is a woman, by the way, they behave irrational.

    But... Are the Swiss the general public?
  • Posts: 4,602
    MS's relationship with Bond was the writers attempt to bring in some deep emotion into the plot (plus the "brother " thing), we all have different opinions but its just not possible to have the same level of emotion compared to Ms death scene. A character who predates DC and played by a national treasure, some people were weeping when I first saw it. Plus, if you are going to attempt some level of emotional involvement, the characters need the time and space for the relationship to build. This never happened as the pace of the movie did not allow it. So now we are left with a character who nobody really cares about (apart from Bond himself?) and is just getting in the way. One thing is for sure, a solution will be found. I just hope its a good one as she is just getting in the way.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    As one of the people who shed a tear at the passing of M, I can agree with your
    Points @patb the Romance was somewhat rushed, but for me at least still
    Believable.
  • Posts: 4,602
    Its interesting that the writers will surely have to consider audience reaction to MS when deciding whether to bring her back. We all have our own reaction to the movie but is it fair to say that, in general, audience reaction was luke warm to her? If I never saw the character again, I would not miss her. That has to be the test of any character (especially one who loves Bond) - do we want to see her again? (she's no Diana Rigg, lets face it)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    Its interesting that the writers will surely have to consider audience reaction to MS when deciding whether to bring her back. We all have our own reaction to the movie but is it fair to say that, in general, audience reaction was luke warm to her? If I never saw the character again, I would not miss her. That has to be the test of any character (especially one who loves Bond) - do we want to see her again? (she's no Diana Rigg, lets face it)

    I don't think the general audience is bothered either way, but there is room to work with Madeleine imo. It's only hardcore fans who would have a hissy fit were she to come back. On the whole I imagine the general audience would be open to some further development of her as a character following the intense nature of their relationship in SP.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    edited March 2016 Posts: 13,384
    Deleted Double post.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    I can see plenty of narrative reasons.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    I can see plenty of narrative reasons.
    Perhaps, there are always reasons, depending on what direction they decide to take. I stand by my view that there is no clamouring for her return anywhere from the general public or from Bond fans that I can see, and a Bond 'girl' is a key ingredient of a Bond film.

    On a related note, as I said in another thread, if B25 is a direct continuation of SP, that would indicate to me that EON is satisfied with this film. If not, that suggests to me that they have decided to just move on from it. I'm curious to see which way they go and what they decide. It will end a lot of debates on this forum.
  • Posts: 14,859
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    But at least some Bond girls were mentioned in subsequent novels. Why not her? Like I said it's been done by Fleming in like three lines for Tiffany Case. Three lines. Hardly beating a dead horse.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    But at least some Bond girls were mentioned in subsequent novels. Why not her? Like I said it's been done by Fleming in like three lines for Tiffany Case. Three lines. Hardly beating a dead horse.
    I have no problem with her being mentioned. If Craig is back, I think they will have to at least make a passing mention. I was more referring to her being a large part of the narrative for Bond 25, at the exclusion of another 'new' Bond girl. That 2nd part is what I find more unlikely, just given past behaviour (and with new Bond girls being an important part of a Bond film) but one never knows with the Craig era. I mean, did we really even have a Bond 'girl' in SF?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think she could be used to show, how after the trauma of Vesper, She has helped
    Bond become more light hearted, in the matters of love, she helped him heal and
    then moved on.
    Leaving Bond refreshed to begin again for Bond 25.
  • Posts: 4,325
    I think Bond 25 should start with their wedding.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    I can see plenty of narrative reasons.
    Perhaps, there are always reasons, depending on what direction they decide to take. I stand by my view that there is no clamouring for her return anywhere from the general public or from Bond fans that I can see, and a Bond 'girl' is a key ingredient of a Bond film.

    I don't see any clamouring, but neither do I imagine it is even a discussion outside of our small band of hardcore fans. Bringing her back does not negate the inclusion of another 'girl' and lets be honest, Marlohe and Bellucci were sorely underused in their respective films. Bringing back a character with an existing arc and leaving a clear run for establishing one other girl serves a more palatable purpose than shoe-horning in another Belucci or Marlohe.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    I can see plenty of narrative reasons.
    Perhaps, there are always reasons, depending on what direction they decide to take. I stand by my view that there is no clamouring for her return anywhere from the general public or from Bond fans that I can see, and a Bond 'girl' is a key ingredient of a Bond film.

    I don't see any clamouring, but neither do I imagine it is even a discussion outside of our small band of hardcore fans. Bringing her back does not negate the inclusion of another 'girl' and lets be honest, Marlohe and Bellucci were sorely underused in their respective films. Bringing back a character with an existing arc and leaving a clear run for establishing one other girl serves a more palatable purpose than shoe-horning in another Belucci or Marlohe.
    Fair enough. There is no need for another wasted Belucci or Marlohe certainly. The # 1 question is whether they move forward with this story or not. I assume that is dependent to a large extent on Craig, and the finalization of studio discussions, as well as EON's view of this film.

    That's what makes B25 so fascinating for me. They either go 'clean break' (and they have a chance now which doesn't come often) or they stick with what they've started.

    One more ingredient is Mendes - as I said elsewhere, outside of Kinnear, everyone else is now Mendes' creation. It makes sense for him to come back and finish the arc of 'his' characters, if they do a continuation.

    Quite a few variables at play imho.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,028
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    But at least some Bond girls were mentioned in subsequent novels. Why not her? Like I said it's been done by Fleming in like three lines for Tiffany Case. Three lines. Hardly beating a dead horse.
    I have no problem with her being mentioned. If Craig is back, I think they will have to at least make a passing mention. I was more referring to her being a large part of the narrative for Bond 25, at the exclusion of another 'new' Bond girl. That 2nd part is what I find more unlikely, just given past behaviour (and with new Bond girls being an important part of a Bond film) but one never knows with the Craig era. I mean, did we really even have a Bond 'girl' in SF?

    It'd be good enough for me if Bond walked into Q's office (weather on a mission already or not) and Q said something like 'I thought you were away' on which Bond could reposte 'it was a lovely weekend, and that's all'. No heartbreak, no killing, and for the general audience, and privates too, good enough. They certainly won't start debates where Madelaine has gone.

    And for the perception of what lovers do in Switserland...

    whatisheaven.jpg

    (Kidding @BondJasonBond, I'm sure many of you are lovely people ;-) )
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @CommanderRoss

    Priceless :))

    I'm very good at organising :D
  • I think she was real suited with Bond and i would like too see her in the next movie too!
  • Posts: 14,859
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Many a Bond film has ended with Bond and a lady. So just because Bond has
    Driven off with Madeline, doesn't mean she's coming back. He might just be off for
    a Dirty weekend. :D
    I agree. They've never brought back a leading lady before, so I don't see why they would feel the need to do it next time, unless the public was clamouring for it. I don't see that right now at least.

    But at least some Bond girls were mentioned in subsequent novels. Why not her? Like I said it's been done by Fleming in like three lines for Tiffany Case. Three lines. Hardly beating a dead horse.
    I have no problem with her being mentioned. If Craig is back, I think they will have to at least make a passing mention. I was more referring to her being a large part of the narrative for Bond 25, at the exclusion of another 'new' Bond girl. That 2nd part is what I find more unlikely, just given past behaviour (and with new Bond girls being an important part of a Bond film) but one never knows with the Craig era. I mean, did we really even have a Bond 'girl' in SF?

    I counted two in SF, albeit very minor ones comparatively to the importance of Bond girls in other Bond movies.

    @CommanderRoss-This is bloody hilarious.
  • Posts: 1,680
    We'll probably know by years end what direction the next film will take, the director alone will be an indicator.

    I have a feeling Mendes is coming back for one more. He mentioned recently he hasnt ruled it out.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    :)) A Classic.
    It's going to be my new trademark soon. :))

    Oh you didn't like a Bond girl Booohooo. She's coming back. I love the entitlement of some fans. I hate this movie the next one should IGNORE it and pretend it didn't happen. Yeah...that's not how life works. ;)

    Like Spectre did with Quantum of Solace you mean?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    If you watch spectre, there are many refrences to QOS. I won't list them
    as it will give a brilliant excuse for someone to watch it again ... perhaps
    for the first time. :))
  • If you watch spectre, there are many refrences to QOS. I won't list them
    as it will give a brilliant excuse for someone to watch it again ... perhaps
    for the first time. :))

    Wow you are both persistent and dense; an incredibly irritating combination.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    No problem, I love you too. :x
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote: »
    :)) A Classic.
    It's going to be my new trademark soon. :))

    Oh you didn't like a Bond girl Booohooo. She's coming back. I love the entitlement of some fans. I hate this movie the next one should IGNORE it and pretend it didn't happen. Yeah...that's not how life works. ;)

    Like Spectre did with Quantum of Solace you mean?

    Nah, it didn't. It alluded to QoS on several occasions using the words 'Quantum', 'Greene', 'White'. Don't really see why people are consistently moaning about it. Get over it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    If you watch spectre, there are many refrences to QOS. I won't list them
    as it will give a brilliant excuse for someone to watch it again ... perhaps
    for the first time. :))

    Wow you are both persistent and dense; an incredibly irritating combination.
    You're a cocky little one aren't you? I'm glad I irritate you. Now turn around and go home.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    If you watch spectre, there are many refrences to QOS. I won't list them
    as it will give a brilliant excuse for someone to watch it again ... perhaps
    for the first time. :))

    Wow you are both persistent and dense; an incredibly irritating combination.
    You're a cocky little one aren't you? I'm glad I irritate you. Now turn around and go home.

    You're on the wrong account @thunderpussy :))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    ".Eeeh! Sorry Hans, wrong guess. Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change? " :D
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