SPECTRE, most fun Bond adventure in decades?

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Comments

  • bondjames wrote: »
    They're both quite acidic for me.

    Try Pepto-Bismol before viewing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    They're both quite acidic for me.

    Try Pepto-Bismol before viewing.
    No kidding. Ironically I'm viewing an ad for that product as I type this.

    Repeated viewings are easier so medication is no longer required, but that first time certainly was a stomach churner in both cases.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    To continue the metaphors; DAD is like a cheap fast food cheeseburger with all the fixings. It's not a five star meal, but it doesn't pretend to be.

    SP is like a fancy French restaurant talking the same basic ingredients as a cheeseburger (aka, the formula), spreading them out on a plate with some garnish, and trying to pass it off as something original and artistic. And then they went and threw some horseradish on top to ruin it for no reason (aka, Brofeld).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have a friend that used to breakdown the TLD PTS for his students. It contains just about every standard type of shot or camera movement in the text books, done flawlessly. That's all of those years Glen spent as an editor.

    You could just as easily use the beginning of the film, from the PTS to Bond taking the hit on Pushkin, to exemplify great characterization through. We get to learn everything about how Bond is in that section of the film, his principles (not killing Kara, his ability to think and not act on Pushkin's hit) and why he doesn't let his job turn him completely cold. Great stuff.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    To be honest, if I'm teaching characterization, screenwriting, etc. I'm not turning to Bond films. I love them, but there are hundreds of dexterous screenplays that give nuance and texture and complexities to the characters. That's just not Bond. Within the series we can debate relative strengths in those areas, but Bond isn't Bergman or Altman.

    Just saying you could at times. Bond unfortunately has spent more time portraying a man very simple in characterization with an emphasis on thrills than a deep and human character, but when the movies actually get serious (DN, FRWL, TB, OHMSS, CR, QoS, etc) there are represented some of the best character building I've seen in any films. It's the mark of a great film and script that can tell you who Bond is without any dialogue needed, as he's not a very verbose man, with actions speaking for him beyond it all. But it's the films above that make this series special, because they make an effort to treat Bond as the complex and contrary man he was in the books.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But it's also the iconic grandeur of the character. Any flaw Bond may exhibit or any obstacle that Bond may face ultimately lead him a step closer to becoming the superman that we love. If Bond (including Fleming's original) didn't contain that basic "man that all men want to be and all women want" it would suck. I find even the most complex characters in the Bond films to still be caricatures; as intended. And I wouldn't want them any other way.

    Thank you. Finally, someone who gets it. Bond movies are not about Bond's emotional journey.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't mind Bond being conflicted, but this whole thing is becoming indulgent. And caricature doesn't necessarily mean simple. When done well in Bond it is played and writ large. Very satisfying.

    Oh yes, I agree with that as well, but as you say, it has become indulgent. Movies like OHMSS are special because they are one-offs. When attempts at adding emotional depth get drawn out over several films, it grows tired and starts feeling like a soap-opera. At this point it's just beating a dead horse.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,716
    And especially when, as others have explained, there are other ways of presenting Bond as an emotional, caring, humane person, without needing to explore his family traumas, as films like Thunderball and For Your Eyes Only demonstrate.
  • I could see Die Another Day being taught in a film class, provided it follows a semester of viewing legitimate quality cinema. I'm of the mind that any work of any caliber could be worth showing to students so long as it generates worthwhile discussion and analysis that ultimately contribute to the students' knowledge of the subject matter. Die Another Day would be an example of the McMovie, the franchise film, the action blockbuster, CGI gone wrong—hell, adaptation even. You have a variety of editing techniques featured throughout from speed-ramping to the progression of story through the main titles. Frequent tonal shifts from the serious to the silly and back again. You could discuss endlessly what was done right and what was done wrong. I believe at times you can actually learn the most through analyzing what's what when things go wrong. Anyway, if you're just going to show a class an action movie at the end of the semester and hope to get some worthwhile discussion out of it, you could do worse than Die Another Day. (And probably better. ;) )

    I remember in my high school film class, after a year of Kurosawa and Kubrick and Wenders and Lynch (and so on and so on), we were shown a film in the action genre—sort of a year-end celebratory freebie. Our teacher considered GoldenEye, but ultimately showed us something else—naturally leaving me disappointed to no end.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Murdock wrote: »
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D

    I actually like the Icarus, but Jinx could have been better played by another actress, or an office chair. Literally anything would have been better.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Icarus would have been better if it wasn't so over powered and massive. It was just too much. Jinx needed a better actress and dialogue.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D

    I actually like the Icarus, but Jinx could have been better played by another actress, or an office chair. Literally anything would have been better.

    DKR_orange_bikini_herman_miller_eames-0116_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481211298

    50443.jpg

    I don't see it having quite the same appeal, but whatever floats your boat.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Murdock wrote: »
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D

    I actually like the Icarus, but Jinx could have been better played by another actress, or an office chair. Literally anything would have been better.

    DKR_orange_bikini_herman_miller_eames-0116_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481211298

    50443.jpg

    I don't see it having quite the same appeal, but whatever floats your boat.

    They're both fine until they start talking. Once that starts, then there's problems. I'd personally rather converse with the office chair.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,528
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.

    I agree the two are only comparable in being the lowest points of either actor's tenure. And I like your analogy, though I find it a little inapt.

    SP is like someone uncorking a bottle of red wine, drinking the wine themselves, and then giving you the cork to gnaw on.

    DAD is like a refreshing soda (super sized if you please) that you get three quarters of the way through before somebody spits in your drink, and then you look down at it and go, "I don't want this anymore."

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero
    That was a marvellous post, sir. :D I had a good time reading it and besides that, I think I completely agree with you.
  • Posts: 6,803
    DAD would be 100 times better if it just never existed!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D

    I actually like the Icarus, but Jinx could have been better played by another actress, or an office chair. Literally anything would have been better.

    DKR_orange_bikini_herman_miller_eames-0116_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481211298

    50443.jpg

    I don't see it having quite the same appeal, but whatever floats your boat.

    I'd like to fold that up, put it in my car and take 'er on holiday. The chair looks pretty nice too; good back support.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    If I was to rank the Barbara Broccoli releases in order of 'fun', it would be as follows:

    -TND (a thrill ride from start to finish)
    -DAD (laughing through most of it)
    -SF (I don't get the 'angst' argument I hear often. Bardem's Silva gives it an old school camp)
    -TWINE (not really a fan, but Christmas raises the fun factor)
    -CR (it's a lot of fun until the romance kicks in. Then it honestly becomes a 'drag')
    -QoS (not really 'fun' per se. More 'intense')
    -SP (don't see the 'fun' in this at all. Just strange).

    I didn't rank GE because it's still a Cubby release to me (the last one while he was alive). If I did it would be top of this list.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2017 Posts: 8,078
    Murdock wrote: »
    Die Another Day would have been 100 times better if Graves wasn't Moon and if Icarus and Jinx were wiped from it's existence. :D

    I actually like the Icarus, but Jinx could have been better played by another actress, or an office chair. Literally anything would have been better.

    DKR_orange_bikini_herman_miller_eames-0116_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481211298

    50443.jpg

    I don't see it having quite the same appeal, but whatever floats your boat.

    "You can sit on it, but you can't take it with you."

    "They're right in front of you, and can open very large doors."
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.

    I agree the two are only comparable in being the lowest points of either actor's tenure. And I like your analogy, though I find it a little inapt.

    SP is like someone uncorking a bottle of red wine, drinking the wine themselves, and then giving you the cork to gnaw on.

    DAD is like a refreshing soda (super sized if you please) that you get three quarters of the way through before somebody spits in your drink, and then you look down at it and go, "I don't want this anymore."

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero
    That was a marvellous post, sir. :D I had a good time reading it and besides that, I think I completely agree with you.

    images%2Farticle%2F2016%2F07%2F07%2Fnotsodifferent.gif

    ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,528
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.

    I agree the two are only comparable in being the lowest points of either actor's tenure. And I like your analogy, though I find it a little inapt.

    SP is like someone uncorking a bottle of red wine, drinking the wine themselves, and then giving you the cork to gnaw on.

    DAD is like a refreshing soda (super sized if you please) that you get three quarters of the way through before somebody spits in your drink, and then you look down at it and go, "I don't want this anymore."

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero
    That was a marvellous post, sir. :D I had a good time reading it and besides that, I think I completely agree with you.

    images%2Farticle%2F2016%2F07%2F07%2Fnotsodifferent.gif

    ;)

    But I'm not the one who's lost his mojo I guarantee. :)
  • If by "mojo" you mean "apostrophe," correct!
  • Posts: 11,189
    The first hour or so is a solid Bond film, but it seems to go off the rails once Bond arrives at Blofelds.
  • Posts: 6,803
    I like when they arrive first. The meteor room is eerie and Lea looks ravishing in that dress and i love that moment when Blofelds people all stand together! Its from the torture scene on that loses my interest somewhat! And the finale in London is a mess, though there is that good visual of Bond standing on the bridge when the copter is downed!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,940
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I like when they arrive first. The meteor room is eerie and Lea looks ravishing in that dress and i love that moment when Blofelds people all stand together! Its from the torture scene on that loses my interest somewhat! And the finale in London is a mess, though there is that good visual of Bond standing on the bridge when the copter is downed!

    Agreed Mathis. To me it would have been a better movie if C was the one rounded up in London you could still do the helicopter chase and stuff. Leave it up in the air if Blofeld survived the blast in the desert. Then reveal him in the next film as the villain.

    I felt like the London climax was tacked on and felt contrived to me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    The first hour or so is a solid Bond film, but it seems to go off the rails once Bond arrives at Blofelds.
    I liked it up to Lucia's. As soon as he gets to that Spectre meeting it collapses for me.
  • Posts: 6,803
    I love that Spectre meeting. One of the things you cant criticise Mendes over is how powerful he uses silence! He does it here and in the meteor room scene. And visually its superb!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It was quiet. I will agree with that! If I could have sped up those few minutes in the theatre I would have. Thank goodness for home video!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,988
    Well, you do seem pro-wildlife. A plus.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Well he did poison Mr. White for growing a conscious so that's something.
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