"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    MR definitely pushes the limits of where Bond can go, and if I were around to see it I'd likely lament how far the series had moved from DN or FRWL. But I think there's things I could find to enjoy in it enough to be satisfied. It won't every be a highly watched movie for me but the vestiges of old Bond, with Adam and Barry doing some of their most interesting work, gives a lot of reason to excuse certain things like so much helps me accept the flaws in movies like SP.

    Other movies that push limits like MR does badly, namely DAD, lack the finesse, craftsmanship and overall style that would forgive those lapses the way others can manage. It helps that the decade in which MR occurred was the perfect climate for such a film to exist, where it was a refreshing bit of popcorn cinema in a decade full of movies that pushed the medium into cynical and often realistic (by which I mean dark) areas. In its day MR was refreshing, despite the obvious Star Wars cash in, and today it's still relatively innocuous and fun if you let it be. I don't take it seriously so I don't get offended by it, and it's Moore being Moore so who really cares at the end of the day. ;)
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 12,395
    Don't get me wrong I really want to like it, I just can't help finding it a bit boring. It's the only Bond film where I think box ticking really drags it down imo. Moore being Moore is always good fun but if I want to see that it'll be TSWLM or OP any day. MR might actually be my least watched Bond film. Even QoS (my least favourite) I watched quite a few times to try and gain some appreciation for it. But I just never feel like watching MR.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,453
    MR also boasts possibly the best production design in the series, is top three for cinematography and features one of Barry's best scores. Yeah, by this point we've strayed very far from FRWL, but in doing so they created possibly the most epic Bond adventure, one that still informs people's perceptions of the cinematic Bond to this day. It's an absolute breeze of a film and Roger is superb. I'd watch MR any time.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    RC7 wrote: »
    MR also boasts possibly the best production design in the series, is top three for cinematography and features one of Barry's best scores. Yeah, by this point we've strayed very far from FRWL, but in doing so they created possibly the most epic Bond adventure, one that still informs people's perceptions of the cinematic Bond to this day. It's an absolute breeze of a film and Roger is superb. I'd watch MR any time.

    That is true to some extent. Even if people don't remember MR down to plot and character, it's not uncommon to hear its influence in the line, "James Bond has been to space and back!"
  • Posts: 1,575
    Minion wrote: »
    Thunderball is actually a really good comparison. Both TB and SP are behemoth entries that have a more discernible split of opinions compared to just about any other Bond entry. Both also seem to crumble under their own weight by the end, but one has to decide how much they'll let that mar the rest of the experience.

    I am not TB's greatest fan, but there is nothing in all of Sp that's half as good as any randomly taken minute in TB

    I am a big TB fan and I enjoy SP too. But I don't think TB crumbles under its own weight anywhere near the way SP does. TB has a credible threat throughout, which I don't feel at all in SP, it's all about what will Oberhauser/Blofeld do, which really doesn't turn out to be much.

    You can trot out the worn out overlong underwater battle and sped-up Disco Volante claims. Those are still better compared with the exploding Morocco base followed by the never-ending ministry building/bridge finale, which seem to drag on forever.

    And as the credits roll, TB's Blofeld is still out there, ready to cause further havoc and SP's is in jail. This is Blofeld, the villain we've waited years to return, with a fresh start after being disposed of supposedly at the end of a crane and dumped down a smokestack. Does this mean Bond 25 will include a spectacular jailbreak scene like we just had in SF?
  • Posts: 11,119
    For all "SPECTRE"-lovers:
    8ivwFR2.jpg
  • Posts: 11,119
    Love this video. Totally agree with the scenes in Blofeld's lair in Morocco:
  • Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Thunderball is actually a really good comparison. Both TB and SP are behemoth entries that have a more discernible split of opinions compared to just about any other Bond entry. Both also seem to crumble under their own weight by the end, but one has to decide how much they'll let that mar the rest of the experience.

    A pretty fair comparison. Both are epic in scope for sure but their ambition writes cheques their execution cannot cash.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    They are each stronger than MR and DAD as fourth-entry Bond films. I'd say TB is still definitely stronger and more even, while SP has more narrative issues. Both aren't quite my favorites but still enjoyable for the most part. The third act of SP is the biggest issue.

    Objectively I suppose I'd say TB and SP tied and then MR with DAD bringing up the rear when it comes to the 4th film ranking.

    But I'm afraid the reality is Rog at his peak and Cubby putting every single cent up on the screen means I simply can't hate MR even with pigeons, Dolly and space battles. Sheer rip roaring entertainment.

    Roger Moore starts by being pushed out of a plane without a parachute and ends floating in space shagging a bird. The bit inbetween is called MR and it's bloody fantastic!!!! How anyone can not love MR is beyond me!

    I agree. As a piece of sheer popcorn cinema in an utter bloody masterpiece.

    Abso-bloody-lutely.

    If you genuinely have no place in your heart for MR, there's something wrong with you.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Thunderball is actually a really good comparison. Both TB and SP are behemoth entries that have a more discernible split of opinions compared to just about any other Bond entry. Both also seem to crumble under their own weight by the end, but one has to decide how much they'll let that mar the rest of the experience.

    A pretty fair comparison. Both are epic in scope for sure but their ambition writes cheques their execution cannot cash.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    They are each stronger than MR and DAD as fourth-entry Bond films. I'd say TB is still definitely stronger and more even, while SP has more narrative issues. Both aren't quite my favorites but still enjoyable for the most part. The third act of SP is the biggest issue.

    Objectively I suppose I'd say TB and SP tied and then MR with DAD bringing up the rear when it comes to the 4th film ranking.

    But I'm afraid the reality is Rog at his peak and Cubby putting every single cent up on the screen means I simply can't hate MR even with pigeons, Dolly and space battles. Sheer rip roaring entertainment.

    Roger Moore starts by being pushed out of a plane without a parachute and ends floating in space shagging a bird. The bit inbetween is called MR and it's bloody fantastic!!!! How anyone can not love MR is beyond me!

    I agree. As a piece of sheer popcorn cinema in an utter bloody masterpiece.

    Abso-bloody-lutely.

    If you genuinely have no place in your heart for MR, there's something wrong with you.

    And it's ending with a banger of a disco theme :-P. Here's the film version:
    http://picosong.com/vSpF/

    Enjoy @RC7 and @Getafix

    Perhaps you've seen this movie as well :
  • Getafix wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Thunderball is actually a really good comparison. Both TB and SP are behemoth entries that have a more discernible split of opinions compared to just about any other Bond entry. Both also seem to crumble under their own weight by the end, but one has to decide how much they'll let that mar the rest of the experience.

    A pretty fair comparison. Both are epic in scope for sure but their ambition writes cheques their execution cannot cash.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    They are each stronger than MR and DAD as fourth-entry Bond films. I'd say TB is still definitely stronger and more even, while SP has more narrative issues. Both aren't quite my favorites but still enjoyable for the most part. The third act of SP is the biggest issue.

    Objectively I suppose I'd say TB and SP tied and then MR with DAD bringing up the rear when it comes to the 4th film ranking.

    But I'm afraid the reality is Rog at his peak and Cubby putting every single cent up on the screen means I simply can't hate MR even with pigeons, Dolly and space battles. Sheer rip roaring entertainment.

    Roger Moore starts by being pushed out of a plane without a parachute and ends floating in space shagging a bird. The bit inbetween is called MR and it's bloody fantastic!!!! How anyone can not love MR is beyond me!

    I agree. As a piece of sheer popcorn cinema in an utter bloody masterpiece.

    Abso-bloody-lutely.

    If you genuinely have no place in your heart for MR, there's something wrong with you.

    Must have something wrong with me then. Everything people have said is spot on, there's a lot of good stuff there, but I think it's less than the sum of its parts. I just find it boring, mostly because it's all a bit predictable and samey but even forgetting that it's just a remake of TSWLM, I also don't think the film has much energy to it anyway. It's all just a bit going through the motions. I admire it but don't really enjoy it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I personally love MR these days. I used to really think highly of it as a kid (for obvious reasons), then went off it for the longest time and now it's back in my good books. I really don't mind the silliness and OTT elements.

    I used to have a problem with the fact that Bond is saved by gadgets every time (even Drax expresses frustration post-python encounter), but can overlook that now.

    I love the campiness of it, the money up on screen, the cinematography, the wonderful travelogue feel & locations, the stunts (the PTS parachuteless dive is still one of the all time greats), Moore's performance (which is spot on given the tone of the film), Lonsdale, Chiles, Kiel, Clery, Ravalec et al.

    The last of the really classic Bond films imho (last with Lee, Bassey, Adam etc.).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,963
    I had a take it or leave it relationship with MR for the longest time, but reassessed it over the last few years and find it a blast, and a bit underrated at times. Very campy and fun, with a lot of beautiful locales laid atop an incredible score.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I think the thing with director Lewis Gilbert is the fact that he's a very kids-friendly director. If you want to show your kids a Bond film, I think MR is one of the best. The dialogue is simple (to us perhaps a bit too simple), there actually isn't much complicated dialogue, the plot is relatively simple, the locations are very Indy Jones-esque (they make kids gasp with open mouths), it's less of a spy thriller and more of a globetrotting adventure, the kids love Jaws, and there's a bit of fantasy in it (the space station).

    Both "Cubby" and Gilbert understood that. And because of that the film was a massive box office success, which got beaten only when GE premiered.
  • I just found this lovely collage of favourite scenes from "SPECTRE" :-):
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    It's in my top 10 for sure!
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 521
    I have just now rewatched Spectre after a hiatus of about six months. I had previspuky watched bits and pieces of the film but never in its entirety since the cinema. This lead me to the conclusion that Spectre is a film where the sum of its parts is greater than the whole.
    Having said this my most recent viewing was highly enjoyable and made me appreciate the film as a whole much more than I realized.

    First the relationship between Bond and Madeleine is not as bad as many make it out to be. It's not anything close to Tracy or Vesper but its top five most meaningful in the series easy.

    Second the action is much better than I remember. Sam Mendes clearly makes this a point of the film and does it quite well. I believe the action fit into the plot as well unlike most of the recent action movies I have watched.

    When watching the film I think the key scene that is designed to show off Spectres power is the boardroom scene. I have always had a great appreciation for this scene because the dialogue is quite well written.

    Overall this is easily a top ten Bond film that will only get better with age. It reminds me a lot of You Only Live Twice. A film that has flaws but really captures the essence and grandiose nature of Bond.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,725
    Where did these people come from
  • Posts: 1,548
    I love spectre. Need to finish the blofeld arc though.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 521
    Does anyone else think that Newman may have viewed a second chance to score a Bond film as an opportunity to try something Barry often did which was reuse music? I dont agree with this choice as the score from Skyfall was not at the level of any Barry score but could totally see this as his thinking.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,740
    It's possible.
    Either way, I like his efforts on SP much more than I like what he did with SF.
  • Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It's possible.
    Either way, I like his efforts on SP much more than I like what he did with SF.

    Funny. I feel the same way. I thought the SP score was less bad - although still largely forgettable.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,740
    Getafix wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It's possible.
    Either way, I like his efforts on SP much more than I like what he did with SF.

    Funny. I feel the same way. I thought the SP score was less bad - although still largely forgettable.

    It had some atmospheric moments that I really like. There's a soft love theme permeating the score when Madeleine and Bond are together. When she walks towards him in that stunning dress on the train, the music does a pretty Barry-esque thing that I really appreciate. There are other moments like that. The Rome car chase isn't scored as abysmally as some seem to think. It all narrows down to taste though.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2018 Posts: 10,544
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It's possible.
    Either way, I like his efforts on SP much more than I like what he did with SF.

    Funny. I feel the same way. I thought the SP score was less bad - although still largely forgettable.

    It had some atmospheric moments that I really like. There's a soft love theme permeating the score when Madeleine and Bond are together. When she walks towards him in that stunning dress on the train, the music does a pretty Barry-esque thing that I really appreciate. There are other moments like that. The Rome car chase isn't scored as abysmally as some seem to think. It all narrows down to taste though.
    I find Backfire largely forgettable, but the choir segment is some of Newman's finest work for Bond.
  • Posts: 11,425
    It's odd as by rights I should find it as bad as SF as it reuses a lot of the same stuff.

    May be it comes down to those elements working better in SP or that SP (for me at least) is just marginally less dull than SF.

    They used the SF score as a holding score for SP and just found it worked well with SP - may be it did genuinely fit better with SP.

    Two highlights in both scores are the single brief uses of the title song themes. A brief glimpse of what might have been had Newman not been so insufferable far up his own backside.

  • Posts: 3,923
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's odd as by rights I should find it as bad as SF as it reuses a lot of the same stuff.

    May be it comes down to those elements working better in SP or that SP (for me at least) is just marginally less dull than SF.

    They used the SF score as a holding score for SP and just found it worked well with SP - may be it did genuinely fit better with SP.

    Two highlights in both scores are the single brief uses of the title song themes. A brief glimpse of what might have been had Newman not been so insufferable far up his own backside.

    I don’t think Newman was given the title songs in time to use them through the scores.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    vzok wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's odd as by rights I should find it as bad as SF as it reuses a lot of the same stuff.

    May be it comes down to those elements working better in SP or that SP (for me at least) is just marginally less dull than SF.

    They used the SF score as a holding score for SP and just found it worked well with SP - may be it did genuinely fit better with SP.

    Two highlights in both scores are the single brief uses of the title song themes. A brief glimpse of what might have been had Newman not been so insufferable far up his own backside.

    I don’t think Newman was given the title songs in time to use them through the scores.

    Which is weird, as Writing's on the Wall had been recorded back in January 2015.

    As for Skyfall, it has been said several times that Newman himself didn't want to use the track in his score and even asked someone else to write the first half of "Komodo Dragons" (the Skyfall cue).
  • Posts: 3,923
    Walecs wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's odd as by rights I should find it as bad as SF as it reuses a lot of the same stuff.

    May be it comes down to those elements working better in SP or that SP (for me at least) is just marginally less dull than SF.

    They used the SF score as a holding score for SP and just found it worked well with SP - may be it did genuinely fit better with SP.

    Two highlights in both scores are the single brief uses of the title song themes. A brief glimpse of what might have been had Newman not been so insufferable far up his own backside.

    I don’t think Newman was given the title songs in time to use them through the scores.

    Which is weird, as Writing's on the Wall had been recorded back in January 2015.

    As for Skyfall, it has been said several times that Newman himself didn't want to use the track in his score and even asked someone else to write the first half of "Komodo Dragons" (the Skyfall cue).

    I hadn’t heard that about SF. He must have really hated it.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,057
    I don't know if it's true or not but didn't Newman say the "Bond Theme" should never be heard again?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,963
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't know if it's true or not but didn't Newman say the "Bond Theme" should never be heard again?

    Even more reason for him to never return to the series.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,544
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't know if it's true or not but didn't Newman say the "Bond Theme" should never be heard again?
    Highly doubt it.
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