SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • Posts: 43
    doubleoego wrote: »
    aspie wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    SP could very well be a good movie. I don't like what they are doing, but that should be no schock.
    I was hoping we could get back to Bond-on-mission, minus personal drama.
    I won't say that concept was actually teased at the end of SF, but the way SF ended, certainly suggests it was possible, but it's not going to happen with the Mendes-Craig combo.
    Clearly they want to do another SF-type film, with thematic threads and personal journey drama.
    So that's that. Not my preference, but they could still make a solid entertaining film, and they probably will.

    It does seem whatever Logan churned out originally has been reeled in.
    It does seem that whatever wacko thing he had done with Tanner for example has been curbed.
    Felix Leiter I don't believe has any role to play, although it does seem that he did in early drafts.
    I think we still have the general Logan story, but minus some of the more radical character twists.
    I think P&W were brought in just to polish the script and make it more Bondian.
    I think higher-ups, are the ones that reeled in Logan's original story.

    This 4-movie story arc, that we look to be getting would be the perfect goodbye for Craig, followed by soft re-launch with a new actor, however nothing says DC couldn't come back for one or two more movies.
    Old dog could be lured out of retirement and given a new gun, if they can't find the one he tossed in the river. The drama potential is endless.

    Personally, I find this whole new SP concept to be a big waste of the inconic organization.
    I would personally cheer for another post-Craig re-boot ( no origins this time-just dive in like DN did, and CR novel did) and work back Spectre and Ernst as recurring villains, as many had hoped, as opposed to Ernst as one-off.

    The Craig-era could simply be looked at as an alternative-take interlude in the broader Bond canon. That may be the way we see things, looking back in 40 years.
    This is the best commentary I have seen of the Craig years. I think the actor has been given too much control. Back to an adventure not a drama.

    Too much control? Craig has stepped up. He's put himself in a position to be part of a solution rather than just, "going along for the ride" and it has paid of handsomely. I'm all for straight missions but in this day and age where every other movie are doing it as well as tv shows; Bond needs to be more layered and allow for audiences of today to be invested in ways they weren't before. If you want straight missions, go and watch the MI films or better yet pop in your Roger Moore Bond movies. Like it or dont but Craig's involvement has been significant and crucial and has been an asset in helping to move the series forward. The problem I have with some Bond fans is that they are flaky and fickle, lacking in consistency. For years fans harper on about the series becoming stale and stagnant and now it's Bond needs to go back to "normal". What's normal? Shallow and generic fluff? With the path that Craig has help to set which includes the type of money these films can make in an ever increasing competitive arena and with the sort of cast and crew the movies are able to gravitate towards them, the days of the Bond of old are gone and from what SPECTRE sounds like, it maybe the best movie yet in tge series although that remains to obviously be seen but all in all I think Craig has given the Bond movies a renewed recognition and an almost re-branding where the movies offer more than just being a James Bond film.

    Tim Dalton gave a multi-layered performance that exposed more of Bond in the formula approach.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    As great as Dalton was and as much as I like him, he gave a multi layered performance? I wouldbt go that far. He got angry, he theatrically ignored orders and looked stern from time to time. I'd hardly call that multi layered but I suppose when coming in from 12 years of Roger Moore antics and dispensing with the cheese, it's easy to regard anything as multi layered.
  • Posts: 4,622
    I must say there is a ton of great commentary in this thread, from all concerned. Real interesting stuff! Using phone. Torture to type.
    Will chime in later.
    Merry Christmas!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    Good news and bad news re: December draft (not putting spoiler tags due to requests)

    Bad: Blofeld is still Bond's foster brother
    Good: that angle is WAY more downplayed than everyone is saying it is. It's only mentioned in essentially one scene and then Bond counteracts quite nicely it with the "your name is ESB" thing. And all that's done during a game of poker. It's not dwelled upon after that at all, if anything this ratchets up the tension during said game quite nicely, those who've read that recent draft will know what I mean.

    Also based on that draft, this will definitely be the most classic Bondian of the Craig films, and it's not that " bruised and battered James Bond, who's making mistakes, have poor judgement and always on the brink of cracking"
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,015
    It Will all dépend upon How they Will deal with the "young bond" photos imo : with such things, script is one part of the équation, but direction is key. Sent from iPhone trying to auto correct in french all the Time ;) so îll answer more in 2 weeks when îm back on a computer!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    It Will all dépend upon How they Will deal with the "young bond" photos imo : with such things, script is one part of the équation, but direction is key. Sent from iPhone trying to auto correct in french all the Time ;) so îll answer more in 2 weeks when îm back on a computer!

    Very true, but I personally have faith in Mendes in terms of direction and how it will look on the screen.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I can't even remember the last time I was on this site using a computer. It's just more convenient access wise using my phone. Anyway, this does indeed appear to be shaping up to be a more classic Bond film. I'm expecting great things from this movie and as others have said, if the execution is done right, this will be a movie for the history books.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    timmer wrote: »
    I actually don't mind Craig as Bond. He's proved he can play the part. IMO he can push on the Connery and Lazenby envelope - note I said push -he will never surpass either of those two great '60s Bonds

    I do hope that you realise that about 99% of Bond fans, 99% of film critics and 99% of casual moviegoers all agree that Daniel Craig is miles above Lazenby when it comes to acting.

    timmer wrote: »
    The terminal trust issues with M. There is no precedent in Fleming.

    So what? The cinematic Bond has been far larger than Fleming's Bond for decades. Fleming's novels have been milked to death and the Bond series should be looking forwards instead of always looking back.

    timmer wrote: »
    I have gone off on a tangent here, but my point is that Craig is heavily invested in this drama-Bond character that he has created. He will milk it, and why not. It makes him rich, unlike his other films.

    It isn't Craig who is heavily interested in exploring th dramatic side of Bond's character. It's Barbara Broccoli. Which means we should not expect to suddenly get over-the-top and lighthearted Bond films once Craig leaves. Which is GREAT! (If I were the producer, I would tone down the personal stuff once Craig leaves, but make the movies even more serious - I would aim for the tone of Inception.)

    timmer wrote: »
    Also, as others have mentioned a second re-boot would be disastrous. Plus there is no need. New actor, for B27 I am predicting, can simply inherit DC-Bond's history. Easily done. Cast the new guy at say age 30, so we get prime years out of him.

    Did you miss the part where Bond was already an ageing agent in Skyfall? The next actor won't be able to inherit DC-Bond's history like Moore inherited SC-Bond's history, because this time Bond's age matters and he isn't an ageless man like in the Bond films before CR.

    They can easily do a reboot again without drawing attention to the fact that it's a reboot. They could cast a new Bond and M, dumb Moneypenny, Q and Tanner for at least a decade and make a movie that is NOT about Bond's first mission.

    timmer wrote: »
    As for Madeleine, no need to kill her off. She needs to be exited by beginning of B25, which is easily done. I do not want some phony modern day attempt at remaking the Tracy story.

    I couldn't disagree with you more. Madeleine can not die and she can't just leave at the beginning of Bond 25. Either of those scenarios would completely undermine the point of this movie. And this is NOT an attempt at remaking the Tracy story. The story of Bond & Madeleine seems to be the complete opposite of the story of Bond & Tracy.

    timmer wrote: »
    These movies are not horrible. They are quite watchable,

    When I dislike or are simply not that enthusiastic about a highly acclaimed movie, I always try to understand why average moviegoers and/or professional film critics love it so much. You should try the same with CR and SF. You might not like them, but they are considered two of the very best Bond films by nearly everyone.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,169
    antovolk wrote: »
    Also based on that draft, this will definitely be the most classic Bondian of the Craig films, and it's not that " bruised and battered James Bond, who's making mistakes, have poor judgement and always on the brink of cracking"
    The actual quote read: " A bruised and battered James Bond, who's making mistakes, have poor judgement and always on the brink of either cracking or leaving the service." ;-)
  • Cast a new M? Why on Earth, when every other actor to play the role stuck around when the actor who played 007 changed?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Cast a new M? Why on Earth, when every other actor to play the role stuck around when the actor who played 007 changed?

    because people now think in terms of reboot every time a lead actor is changed... they're not thinking in terms of "these are people that EON would like to keep around for a while."
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 381
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Cast a new M? Why on Earth, when every other actor to play the role stuck around when the actor who played 007 changed?

    because people now think in terms of reboot every time a lead actor is changed... they're not thinking in terms of "these are people that EON would like to keep around for a while."
    EON kept Dench when Craig was cast and that made no sense really, as CR is set in a different universe than the four Brosnan films. I'm assuming Fiennes is in the franchise for the long haul.

  • I've seen the October draft script and the November outline, but am I right in saying there's actually a December script or outline out there as well now?
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    @Solari I think so too, finally someone agrees with me
  • Posts: 3,164
    Solari wrote: »
    I've seen the October draft script and the November outline, but am I right in saying there's actually a December script or outline out there as well now?

    Yes as there was a Russian review of the Dec 1 script that I mentioned a while back.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622

    I do hope that you realise that about 99% of Bond fans, 99% of film critics and 99% of casual moviegoers all agree that Daniel Craig is miles above Lazenby

    You do realize I don't care. I'll take Laz's Bond over Craig's Bond any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
    Happy to be a so-called "one-per-center"
    At least you allow the personal stuff could be toned down, going forward.
    That would be very helpful and beneficial for the series.
    When Craig is done, recast young and march bravely forward into an exciting new era of 007 adventure!
    Can't wait. Maybe even bring back my new favourite Bond girl, Seydoux as a new character a la Maud Adams. Amore. :x
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    If any actress should come back it's Rosamund Pike.
  • Posts: 4,622
    doubleoego wrote: »
    If any actress should come back it's Rosamund Pike.

    No argument there. That would be tremendous!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,169
    Camille. Bond still has "unfinished" business with her ;-)

    bondfun.jpg
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 381
    timmer wrote: »

    I do hope that you realise that about 99% of Bond fans, 99% of film critics and 99% of casual moviegoers all agree that Daniel Craig is miles above Lazenby

    You do realize I don't care. I'll take Laz's Bond over Craig's Bond any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
    Happy to be a so-called "one-per-center"

    Is Gary Cherone your favorite Van Halen frontman?
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Just finished watching QoS and been thinking about Dominic Green last line to JB ".. i told you EVERYTHING you wanted to know about Quantum".
    Now i guess
    this is how he got the lead for going after Sciarra in Mexico (til now and having only read the outline it seems the most plausible idea
    On the other hand
    Bond should know much more then he seems to know on Spectre. At least it seems he is pretty much "in the blind" and only on the 2nd half of the movie REALLY gets to know everything about Quantum
    Just some random thoughts!!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Camille. Bond still has "unfinished" business with her ;-)

    bondfun.jpg

    :)) Poor guy. I think Maddy Swann will help him get his mojo back.

    @legate Gary who? Actually my favourite Bond is Connery slam dunk. George was worthy standin.
    Not a Van Halen fan though, with or without DLR, Sammy, any of them, although Eddie can shred, no doubt about that.
    My favourite cock-rock bands though - I lean more towards Stones, Gunners, AC/DC, Zep, not so much VH.
  • I was trying to use =VH= as an allegory for James Bond. George Lazenby is kind of like the Gary Cherone of the 007 franchise.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,115
    deleted.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 591
    Is anyone else wondering who will be cast as Marco Sciarra? Will the actor be older or younger than Bellucci?I think his character and the funeral scene with Lucia (if kept) will be a nice nod to the Thunderball pre-title sequence.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    Is anyone else wondering who will be cast as Marco Sciarra? Will the actor be older or younger than Bellucci?I think his character and the funeral scene with Lucia (if kept) will be a nice nod to the Thunderball pre-title sequence.
    I'd like to see this fella as Mr. Sciarra.

    62448.jpg
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    edited January 2015 Posts: 1,208
  • aaron819 wrote: »
    I have got the script in Dropbox if anyone wants the link please message me.
    I'll wait until Spectre will be in my cinema.

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 591
    Is anyone else wondering who will be cast as Marco Sciarra? Will the actor be older or younger than Bellucci?I think his character and the funeral scene with Lucia (if kept) will be a nice nod to the Thunderball pre-title sequence.
    I'd like to see this fella as Mr. Sciarra.

    62448.jpg
    I would have gone for Luca Calvani. But considering he is playing the villain in Man from Uncle, I think he's out of the picture.

    BrioniFW12-134.jpg

  • Posts: 260
    Is anyone else wondering who will be cast as Marco Sciarra? Will the actor be older or younger than Bellucci?I think his character and the funeral scene with Lucia (if kept) will be a nice nod to the Thunderball pre-title sequence.
    I'd like to see this fella as Mr. Sciarra.

    62448.jpg

    Please no spoiler tags.
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