Mr. Hinx - discussion

Darius

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

Shark_0f_Largo wrote: »

Thought he was a great addition to the movie. A henchman in the classic mould.

Anyone think his "death" almost left him open for a return. Nothing to show he was dead was there?

Is there anyone here with medical training/physics major who can do the calculations for me here to stop this notion that Hinx could have survived? By my, admittedly laymen's, reckoning the initial jerk of the barrels would likely as not have broken his neck not to mention the subsequent jerks as the barrels bounced around. And this is on top of people assuming falling out of a train in the middle of the desert at night is a minor inconvenience rather than potentially fatal.

A quick google gives this:
To break the neck of a human, 1,000 to 1,250 foot-pounds of torque is considered sufficient. When hanging someone, a typical drop of 5 to 9 feet is enough to generate the force required to break the neck when the person hits the end of the rope.
A foot-pound of torque is 1 pound of force applied at a distance of 1 foot. Therefore, applying 200 pounds of force on a 1-foot-long wrench generates 200 foot-pounds of torque. Applying 100 pounds of force on a 2-foot-long wrench also generates 200 foot-pounds of torque.
Most broken necks are the result of severe trauma, such as car crashes or falls during sports such as skiing.

Assuming the barrels are empty they still represent a significant weight (full and they will be way over 200lbs) and the rope seemed to me to be at least 5 feet (although given he is a big man with tough neck muscles he would probably need the full 9 feet) so I would guesstimate that the first jerk that pulls him out of the train might well be enough. Remember that filming the MR PTS they had to use special slow deploying parachutes because they extra weight of a small camera on their helmet coupled with the jerk of the opening chute would have broken their necks.

I could just about suspend my disbelief that Hinx could survive I suppose but I wouldn't be happy with it. If they wanted him to potentially survive then they shouldn't have attached the barrels and just booted him out of the train. Although that would have been a crap death to be fair.

Lets remember as well that he has at least one bullet in him so even if he survives the barrels and the fall he is in the middle of the desert with no medical attention and a hole in him.

I wouldnt like to try to survive it personally. I think Sciarra has as much chance of being alive given the low altitude and softish landing of the crowd below.

A very well thought out post, @TheWizardofIce.

A friend that lectures in physics ran a few calculations on this and the two of us conclude that if this had happened in the real world, there is no chance in hell that even a burly chap like Hinx could have survived the trauma he has been put through. The inertia of over two hundred pounds of beer barrels (even if empty) combined with the train's onward motion, Hinx's body weight and the wind drag would have snapped his neck like a twig, muscles or no muscles. It might even have decapitated him. Even if this had not happened, the fall from a train (presumably doing in excess of 75 mph [120kph]) would easily have done the trick and turned him into a Saville Row suited blob of strawberry jam.

However, we're not living in the real world here. This is the world of James Bond where a frail human body (even Bond's gym-conditioned one) can survive a fall from the Varda Viaduct (322ft/98m) into water and, seemingly, without breaking any bones in the process. Let's not forget that Bond also had suffered the trauma of taking a high calibre (5.56mm) bullet from an assault rifle (an Olympic Arms K23B Tactical) and a 9mm (from a Glock 18) depleted uranium slug in his shoulder too.

TheWizardOfIce

Darius wrote: »

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

Shark_0f_Largo wrote: »

Thought he was a great addition to the movie. A henchman in the classic mould.

Anyone think his "death" almost left him open for a return. Nothing to show he was dead was there?

Is there anyone here with medical training/physics major who can do the calculations for me here to stop this notion that Hinx could have survived? By my, admittedly laymen's, reckoning the initial jerk of the barrels would likely as not have broken his neck not to mention the subsequent jerks as the barrels bounced around. And this is on top of people assuming falling out of a train in the middle of the desert at night is a minor inconvenience rather than potentially fatal.

A quick google gives this:
To break the neck of a human, 1,000 to 1,250 foot-pounds of torque is considered sufficient. When hanging someone, a typical drop of 5 to 9 feet is enough to generate the force required to break the neck when the person hits the end of the rope.
A foot-pound of torque is 1 pound of force applied at a distance of 1 foot. Therefore, applying 200 pounds of force on a 1-foot-long wrench generates 200 foot-pounds of torque. Applying 100 pounds of force on a 2-foot-long wrench also generates 200 foot-pounds of torque.
Most broken necks are the result of severe trauma, such as car crashes or falls during sports such as skiing.

Assuming the barrels are empty they still represent a significant weight (full and they will be way over 200lbs) and the rope seemed to me to be at least 5 feet (although given he is a big man with tough neck muscles he would probably need the full 9 feet) so I would guesstimate that the first jerk that pulls him out of the train might well be enough. Remember that filming the MR PTS they had to use special slow deploying parachutes because they extra weight of a small camera on their helmet coupled with the jerk of the opening chute would have broken their necks.

I could just about suspend my disbelief that Hinx could survive I suppose but I wouldn't be happy with it. If they wanted him to potentially survive then they shouldn't have attached the barrels and just booted him out of the train. Although that would have been a crap death to be fair.

Lets remember as well that he has at least one bullet in him so even if he survives the barrels and the fall he is in the middle of the desert with no medical attention and a hole in him.

I wouldnt like to try to survive it personally. I think Sciarra has as much chance of being alive given the low altitude and softish landing of the crowd below.

A very well thought out post, @TheWizardofIce.

A friend that lectures in physics ran a few calculations on this and the two of us conclude that if this had happened in the real world, there is no chance in hell that even a burly chap like Hinx could have survived the trauma he is put through. The inertia of over two hundred pounds of beer barrels (even if empty) combined with the train's onward motion, Hinx's body weight and the wind drag would have snapped his neck like a twig, muscles or no muscles. It might even have decapitated him. Even if this had not happened, the fall from a train (presumably doing in excess of 75 mph [120kph]) would easily have done the trick and turned him into a Saville Row suited blob of strawberry jam.

However, we're not living in the real world here. This is the world of James Bond where a frail human body (even Bond's gym-conditioned one) can survive a fall from the Varda Viaduct (322ft/98m) into water and, seemingly, without breaking any bones in the process.

Well in fairness I dont know how fast the average Moroccan train goes but it did seem a bit rickety so lets say the speed was around 50mph to give him more of a chance. But you're absolutely correct of course - heads come off a lot easier than people think and necks snap even easier.

Apparently to some people we have to see life exit the body or they wont believe hes dead.

Some other Bond villains who could yet come back:

DN - I think it was in Umberto Eco's 'The Bond Affair' where is a chapter on the science of Bond that Dr No could merely have swum out of the tank and escaped. It says he probably wouldnt be able to have kids as his bollocks would be irradiated so I dont know if that means he would have died of cancer a few weeks later too but he could at least have survived the end of DN.

GF - Well we dont see him actually die do we? If there is a conveniently placed big top why couldnt he survive?

DAF - Mr Kidd would be severely disfigured to be sure but his burns are extinguished after less than a minute and would be no worse than those of Simon Weston or WW2 pilots (http://www.blondmcindoe.org/the-guinea-pig-club.html?gclid=CMjawo2R8sgCFcFAGwod3qoFWg).

LALD - Where is the same debate about Tee Hee being still alive? And he didnt have a dead weight attached to his neck.

OP - Gobinda could benefit from the same classic big top escape.

AVTAK - Yes its a higher drop than Bond in SF but do we actually see Zorins body? People have survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge.

TLD - Necros + classic Jaws big top airbag = still alive.

QOS - Could Dominic Greene have faked his death? We dont see the body so whats to stop him killing a Bolivian peasant and dressing him in his clothes and then disappearing? We only have M's say so that he is dead and given this is a woman who has presided over 5 traitors in 8 films within MI6 not to mention shambollically letting SIlva escape so not sure we can trust her competence.

SF - Patrice. Can we be sure theres not a mini big top at the bottom of that skyscraper? We need to see him splatter otherwise he could return.

Are going to need to start having a scene in every Bond film where we see a coroner certifying death otherwise people will think someone might still be alive?

jobo

This is a rather pointless exercise if you ask. You don't survive a fall from the sky into circus tent or falling down the Iguazo waterfalls either. If the producers want Bautista back, they can. The interesting question for debate is wether that would be desirable or not.

TheWizardOfIce

jobo wrote: »

This is a rather pointless exercise if you ask. You don't survive a fall from the sky into circus tent or falling down the Iguazo waterfalls either. If the producers want Bautista back, they can. The interesting question for debate is wether that would be desirable or not.

Well then I guess it boils down do we want to regress back to the ludicrous fantasy of MR? I thought we had left those days long behind?

royale65

Two very through posts there Wiz. Talking of henchman, what ever happened to Whisper, is he still locked in that container?

jobo

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

jobo wrote: »

This is a rather pointless exercise if you ask. You don't survive a fall from the sky into circus tent or falling down the Iguazo waterfalls either. If the producers want Bautista back, they can. The interesting question for debate is wether that would be desirable or not.

Well then I guess it boils down do we want to regress back to the ludicrous fantasy of MR? I thought we had left those days long behind?

Wether its "ludicrous" or not is a matter of opinion. The point is that it is not really unrealistic in the current Bond era as it is. In addition to this debate, why not analyze how

Blofeld survived that gigantic explotion? Or how exactly it would result in a scar through the eye and nothing else?

No matter what you think of SF and SP (I happen to like both films) you can't argue with the fact that a lot of the things going on plot wise is quite unbelievable, if not utterly "ludicrous".

Zorin61

For me, Hinx is one of the most memorable henchman in years.

MyNameIsMyBondRn

..History keeps on it's repetition of itself, and some peoples cannot stand that; it is to close to reality. Everybody wants to escape trivial reality; in James Bond everything can happen.

Thunderpussy

Yes, Well said.! ;) I better couldn't have put it myself. :D

MyNameIsMyBondRn

(laughing)..!

Thunderpussy

Bless your heart. :)

Ludovico

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

Thunderfinger wrote: »

Mr Hinx is interestingly never named as such in the film. He doesn t have many scenes, but what scenes! Classic stuff.

Without spoiling much where do we rank him on the henchman list?

Best of the Craig era? Tough to beat Elvis but I think he just managed it.

Better than anyone in Brosnan's era? I would say so as they are all too cartoony.

Better than Dalts ever had? Necros is decent so I'm torn there but he's certainly better than Dario.

Rog? Well Jaws still a legend despite all the skydiving/ Dolly bullshit. Better than Nick Nack, Tee Hee, Kriegler, possibly Gobinda (who I like a lot) and May Day.

Laz? Hinx beats Grunther fairly comfortably.

Sean? Well not as good as Grant or Oddjob clearly but better than Vargas and Hans. Not as much fun as Wint & Kidd but much more menacing.

So looking at that I'd say comfortably top 10, on a good day top 5 for Mt Hinx so very respectable.

I love Hinx and find him superior to most of the "musclemen" type of henchmen we've had after Oddjob (and I'd include all the Grant clones, even the good ones such as Necros). But Vargas and NickNack are certainly different types of henchman, not so much physical menace as a creepy looking lackey of the main villain (Elvis belongs to this category too, albeit he is one of its most inept examples). The two guys who tried to kill Q are henchmen related to Vargas and others, not Hinx.

RogueAgent

I hope he returns as i thought he was great!

dragonsky

He was decent. I liked him but he didn't get enough time to develop personality. Does he want to toy around with his enemy ? Or is he 100% business and crashes him in the first opportunity ? This wasn't clarified in this movie.

I'm glad Batista is getting big roles and I hope he has a great career in Hollywod.

He came from:



To crushing Bond.

But the real question is........did they ever mentioned his name in the movie ?

I didn't like the cartoony way he died (EDIT: And we're not even sure if he's really dead.....he probably is tho..) even though I laughed at that scene. That train figt might be the best hand to hand fight scene in the entire franchise, I only wish it was filmed in one shot, it would have been waaay better

bondboy007

I really liked the fight scenes as he was a big menacing character, but that was it. He had no dialogue and virtually no scenes with the main villain. He just felt like he was there solely to move Bond & Swann along on their journey.

Darius

Much as I liked Mr Hinx's brutish monolithic, terminator-like presence, I think it best if he is left in "is he or isn't he dead?" limbo. Somehow, bringing back a henchman villain, no matter how popular, smacks of lack of invention -- unless there's a continuation back-story waiting to be tapped into. Otherwise, I agree with @bondboy007 that he was simply a plot device to keep everything moving along with the right level of threat.

Let's go with something fresh and new for Bond 25, shall we?

OnlyManWhoCan

I really wish Hinx had returned in the final act. Dave seems like such a nice bloke that I feel he should have got more screentime or dialogue at least. It seemed like a missed opportunity to have him leave the film after the train fight - if he had appeared again in London it would have raised the stakes as Bond barely survived their previous encounter!

The bit when you see him reflected in the silverware just before the train fight is also frankly terrifying!

Mallory

I also believe it is Mr Hinx who brings Bond and Madeliene the martini's just before the fight. It would have been cool if Bond looked up and saw Hinx standing there, a slight pause and look of terror, before he kicks the table up.

suavejmf

Mallory wrote: »

I also believe it is Mr Hinx who brings Bond and Madeliene the martini's just before the fight. It would have been cool if Bond looked up and saw Hinx standing there, a slight pause and look of terror, before he kicks the table up.

It isn't Hinx who bring the drinks.

doubleoego

suavejmf wrote: »

Mallory wrote: »

I also believe it is Mr Hinx who brings Bond and Madeliene the martini's just before the fight. It would have been cool if Bond looked up and saw Hinx standing there, a slight pause and look of terror, before he kicks the table up.

It isn't Hinx who bring the drinks.

People are seeing all kinds of things that didn't occur in this movie and what's in the movie, again simple people miss completely.

Murdock

I thought he was awesome, A true terrifying menacing beast of a henchmen. That fight, holy cow that was incredible.

Depending on if Craig, Waltz and Sydoux return for B25, I hope we get to see Hinx again.

Pierce2Daniel

Interesting interview with Mendes:
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/empire-podcast-spectre-spoiler-special-sam-mendes/

He thinks Hinx should return....

I kinda don't mind this idea. However, Bond villains who get reprieves often do so off their popularity. I see no one getting excited over Hinx, aside die-hard fans. The general public couldn't give a stuff.

I still have no idea why Hinx didn't turn up for the London finale.

However....Maybe after suffering attacks by Bond on the train, he could return with a metal jaw in Bond 25? After all, we've had the Bond, Moneypenny and Blofeld origin stories; why not Jaws?

I'm not saying they should copy the look, but maybe they could take inspiration from the James Bond Jr version of the character...

Pierce2Daniel

https://podcastone.com/episode/DaveBautistaReturns

Really cool podcast withe Bautista. It's really candid and honest.

He talks about the audition for Hinx, the table-read, how they made him dub the final line, cut scenes, working with Craig, etc.

MajorDSmythe

I don't know what the word on the grapevine is, but I would like to see Hinx back in the next film, even if it is against a new Bond. It would be a shame to confine such an intimidating henchman to just one film. Bring him back, but please, EON, don't do what you did to Jaws in MR.

Pierce2Daniel

Who else found it frustrating that Hinx didn't get a name check in the film. It's hard to build an iconic character when you don't even know his name. Plus, they had Dave *fricking* Bautista! Surely there was a way of doing more with him!

It's a bit criminal that he didn't get to appear in NTTD. He could have subbed in for Dali Denssalah's character. Is there a chance he could return in a non-Craig era film?

jobo

No, he shouldn´t return. Lets just accept that Bautista was a lost opportunity. It was not all vasted afterall. We did get a good fight scene, one of the best scenes in the film if you ask me.

QBranch

I'd like to see the camera pan past Mr Hinx

(and other SPECTRE agents as they all laugh and point at Bond during their meeting in Cuba),

to which we spot Hinx with a steel keg for a neck brace.

Ludovico

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

Who else found it frustrating that Hinx didn't get a name check in the film. It's hard to build an iconic character when you don't even know his name. Plus, they had Dave *fricking* Bautista! Surely there was a way of doing more with him!

It's a bit criminal that he didn't get to appear in NTTD. He could have subbed in for Dali Denssalah's character. Is there a chance he could return in a non-Craig era film?

Maybe with a broken neck? Big maybe.

NickTwentyTwo

I'd love him to come back with a bunch of physical scarring and a menacing neckbrace.

Contraband

Ellen-Interview with Dave Bautista (plugging some movie). Seems like a really nice guy