A Free Chance for Fans to Lobby for Yusef's Return...

24

Comments

  • Posts: 14,799
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    No i would say he is done with! White was the biggest loose end!

    I'm also against Yusef in SPECTRE but what about Guy Haines? He was a high ranking member of Quantum organization with connections to British Prime Minister. He's still at large. Ang he's danger with his political power. It's a loose end for me.

    I hope that SPECTRE will give me some answers.

    I,d love to see Guy Haines again if only because Paul Ritter is a great actor. But something may have happened to him inbetween QOS ans SP. Simple as that. The antagonism was mainly between Bond and White really, after the death of Le Chiffre.

    I think it was pretty clear that they were setting up Guy Haines as the big villain in Bond 23 or beyond. Possibly a modern day Blofeld. But things change all the time. Now that EON has the rights to Spectre back I guess Haines has become redundant with the looming presence of Blofeld. Still It'd be nice to see him pop up for a quick scene to give Quantum more closure.

    I don't think Haines was set up as a future main villain. He was one of many leaders of Quantum. In the board of directors, so to speak. QOS did not exploit this aspect fully or properly though. OS

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have now gathered 20 000 signatures demanding the return of Yusef.

    (I hope you realize I am kidding.)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Didn't the actor appear in Agents of SHIELD last time we saw of him?
  • Didn't the actor appear in Agents of SHIELD last time we saw of him?

    He plays Sunil Bakshi (member of HYDRA) and is described in one of episodes as a "classic Bond villain" :)

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily be upset if they brought back Yusef and / or mentioned Vesper, I simply fail to see why they'd do that. I much sooner expect a passing reference to the former M, and even that is not something I desire. Bond films aren't into that level of "myth building". However, I admit that Tracy was referenced twice after OHMSS and the word 'predecessor' was used by both M in GE and Q/R in DAD. So if they mention Vesper in the proper context, I might even like it.

    Personally I consider Blofeld without Tracy just another Dr No, Goldfinger, Stromberg, or Drax. Its the killing of Tracy that elevates Blofeld to nemesis status (particularly in the books) so given that a remake of OHMSS doesnt seem likely then I would be inclined to have Bond discover (at the very end of SP or in B25) that it is Blofeld who was behind Vesper's death and it was he who ordered honey trap Yusuf to work his magic on female agents.

    This would make Bond's final battle with Blofeld in B25 and B26 the personal vendetta of the books and would make up for the rather underwhelming showdown with Yusuf as we see Bond properly get his revenge - 'Die Blofeld, die!!'

    By bringing back Mr White they are clearly trying to tie the whole Craig era together (rather hamfistedly IMO given it was clearly never intended from the start) by presumably having Quantum turn into SPECTRE. If this is the case then I dont really see the logic of ignoring Vesper and the fact Bond has a very personal grudge with the organisation.

    At the end of CR the novel Mathis tells Bond to hunt down SMERSH to protect the people he cares about. Craig's Bond wanting to smash SPECTRE to avenge Vesper, Mathis and Fields gives us the personal angle Mendes and co desperately crave for Craig's Bond.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think we got the closure on that character. Bringing Yusef back would almost instantly imply bringing Vesper back into the story, i.e. mentioning her or whatever. I think we can put all that behind us now - or: Bond got his solace. White is another thing entirely.
    But why not having her mentioned, Dimi? Bond from the books visited her gravestone once in a year during his annual travelling to Royal-les-eaux since the first novel. That's where he met Tracy, right?

    Yeah but to my knowledge that was only mentioned once (in OHMSS). In between those novels the stories never took time to have Bond visit Vesper's grave. It would be repetitive and unnecessary.

    Yes it would. Thats why Fleming doesnt do it. He allows the reader to work out that when he says Bond undertakes an annual pilgrimage to her grave it means he therefore doesnt need to write it in every book for it to happen.

    I really wouldnt mind ClarkDevlin's idea of Bond visiting Vesper's grave at some point before Craig bows out. Just a short one minute scene would do. I dont think hes suggesting they do it in every film.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,423
    Librarian wrote: »
    Didn't the actor appear in Agents of SHIELD last time we saw of him?

    He plays Sunil Bakshi (member of HYDRA) and is described in one of episodes as a "classic Bond villain" :)
    Yes, and claims to be loyal to his superiors. Then dies. Lol!

    I really wouldnt mind ClarkDevlin's idea of Bond visiting Vesper's grave at some point before Craig bows out. Just a short one minute scene would do. I dont think hes suggesting they do it in every film.

    No, I didn't suggest they should do it in every film. Probably five-to-ten films once? Just to remind the audience that there's continuity. That is all.
  • Posts: 12,506
    Librarian wrote: »
    Didn't the actor appear in Agents of SHIELD last time we saw of him?

    He plays Sunil Bakshi (member of HYDRA) and is described in one of episodes as a "classic Bond villain" :)

    No way!! I knew he looked familiar! Just did not make the connection.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think we got the closure on that character. Bringing Yusef back would almost instantly imply bringing Vesper back into the story, i.e. mentioning her or whatever. I think we can put all that behind us now - or: Bond got his solace. White is another thing entirely.
    But why not having her mentioned, Dimi? Bond from the books visited her gravestone once in a year during his annual travelling to Royal-les-eaux since the first novel. That's where he met Tracy, right?

    I'd love to see a scene like that in the Craig era. A nice, subtle touch, letting us know he stills thinks of her from time to time.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    No i would say he is done with! White was the biggest loose end!

    I'm also against Yusef in SPECTRE but what about Guy Haines? He was a high ranking member of Quantum organization with connections to British Prime Minister. He's still at large. Ang he's danger with his political power. It's a loose end for me.

    I hope that SPECTRE will give me some answers.

    I,d love to see Guy Haines again if only because Paul Ritter is a great actor. But something may have happened to him inbetween QOS ans SP. Simple as that. The antagonism was mainly between Bond and White really, after the death of Le Chiffre.

    I think it was pretty clear that they were setting up Guy Haines as the big villain in Bond 23 or beyond. Possibly a modern day Blofeld. But things change all the time. Now that EON has the rights to Spectre back I guess Haines has become redundant with the looming presence of Blofeld. Still It'd be nice to see him pop up for a quick scene to give Quantum more closure.

    I don't think Haines was set up as a future main villain. He was one of many leaders of Quantum. In the board of directors, so to speak. QOS did not exploit this aspect fully or properly though. OS

    The original ending of QOS suggested otherwise. It featured Bond confronting Haines and Mr. White at Haines' mansion. It;s never been released on DVD. The closest we got to seeing it was the end of the QOS video game.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think we got the closure on that character. Bringing Yusef back would almost instantly imply bringing Vesper back into the story, i.e. mentioning her or whatever. I think we can put all that behind us now - or: Bond got his solace. White is another thing entirely.
    But why not having her mentioned, Dimi? Bond from the books visited her gravestone once in a year during his annual travelling to Royal-les-eaux since the first novel. That's where he met Tracy, right?

    I'd love to see a scene like that in the Craig era. A nice, subtle touch, letting us know he stills thinks of her from time to time.
    We're on the same page, Brady. :)
  • So we all miss Vesper, I could say for most folks...

    Her theme should also pop up again with any tribute. What if Yusuf or Mr. White try to upset Bond by throwing her necklace at him and try to mock him as being "disrespectful" to her, which he wasn't by throwing it away.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    So we all miss Vesper, I could say for most folks...

    Her theme should also pop up again with any tribute. What if Yusuf or Mr. White try to upset Bond by throwing her necklace at him and try to mock him as being "disrespectful" to her, which he wasn't by throwing it away.

    If we had a small sequence with Bond in a French cemetery and the camera came in over his shoulder to show us it's Vesper's grave he's visiting I'd love to hear her theme bleeding through. I imagine I'd roll a tear, actually.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    So we all miss Vesper, I could say for most folks...

    Her theme should also pop up again with any tribute. What if Yusuf or Mr. White try to upset Bond by throwing her necklace at him and try to mock him as being "disrespectful" to her, which he wasn't by throwing it away.

    If we had a small sequence with Bond in a French cemetery and the camera came in over his shoulder to show us it's Vesper's grave he's visiting I'd love to hear her theme bleeding through. I imagine I'd roll a tear, actually.
    To be sincere, it was the way I wanted Casino Royale to end. With Bond standing still before her gravestone, lost for words, just staring at it, while his mind couldn't help but make his vision display all the memories he had with her, probably the only good period of his life (or yet). He leaves a bouquet of red roses on the grave, saying "Goodbye, Vesper." but his remark had more than just one meaning, a voice of regret and a miss. As he departs, the credits start rolling in, and Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye" starts playing. Leaving us the next film to be a revenge driven film rather than just a game of cat and mouse. If you know what I mean. What do you say @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @ClarkDevlin, I don't know if I'd put it at the end of CR directly after Vesper's death. Plus, at that time Bond was still in denial over his feelings and very angry at Vesper for what he understood at the time to be a betrayal. He then spends the entire film in QoS showing how much of a hold she still has on him, though he tries to hide it.

    This grave scene wouldn't work in QoS either because Bond only resolves his feelings over Vesper at the end of the film, where fitting in a graveyard visit wouldn't have worked structurally or pacing wise. Skyfall wouldn't allow it and wouldn't make sense because of its choice to tell a one-off adventure, so that leaves Bond 24 or 25 to put it in somewhere. Now that Bond has forgiven Vesper and has reached some kind of stability after her death, now would be a great time to show that he still thinks of her often, especially since Mr. White is back in action and will no doubt reference her somehow.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    @ClarkDevlin, I don't know if I'd put it at the end of CR directly after Vesper's death. Plus, at that time Bond was still in denial over his feelings and very angry at Vesper for what he understood at the time to be a betrayal. He then spends the entire film in QoS showing how much of a hold she still has on him, though he tries to hide it.

    This grave scene wouldn't work in QoS either because Bond only resolves his feelings over Vesper at the end of the film, where fitting in a graveyard visit wouldn't have worked structurally or pacing wise. Skyfall wouldn't allow it and wouldn't make sense because of its choice to tell a one-off adventure, so that leaves Bond 24 or 25 to put it in somewhere. Now that Bond has forgiven Vesper and has reached some kind of stability after her death, now would be a great time to show that he still thinks of her often, especially since Mr. White is back in action and will no doubt reference her somehow.
    Yes, more sensible that would be. I do expect a reference to be made to her in the next film. There has to be. Either a mention of her, or the grave scene to be put somewhere. Probably associate it with Bond came to pay his respects to his friends who died in the line of duty? And the dear ones he lost?
  • @ClarkDevlin, I don't know if I'd put it at the end of CR directly after Vesper's death. Plus, at that time Bond was still in denial over his feelings and very angry at Vesper for what he understood at the time to be a betrayal. He then spends the entire film in QoS showing how much of a hold she still has on him, though he tries to hide it.

    This grave scene wouldn't work in QoS either because Bond only resolves his feelings over Vesper at the end of the film, where fitting in a graveyard visit wouldn't have worked structurally or pacing wise. Skyfall wouldn't allow it and wouldn't make sense because of its choice to tell a one-off adventure, so that leaves Bond 24 or 25 to put it in somewhere. Now that Bond has forgiven Vesper and has reached some kind of stability after her death, now would be a great time to show that he still thinks of her often, especially since Mr. White is back in action and will no doubt reference her somehow.
    Yes, more sensible that would be. I do expect a reference to be made to her in the next film. There has to be. Either a mention of her, or the grave scene to be put somewhere. Probably associate it with Bond came to pay his respects to his friends who died in the line of duty? And the dear ones he lost?

    Vesper's grave in QoS wouldn't have made sense unless it appeared towards the end since the events take place directly after CR but the movie tried stressing Bond's internal turmoil. And the director of the film while trying to make it "like a bullet" has much experience using ways of showing his protagonists internal turmoil in his films.

    SP should definitely reference Vesper if Mr. White's back otherwise his appearance will seem less sinister as it was in the end of CR or menacing and elusive as in QoS.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    I can see where you are going with this, but honestly he would appear for about two minutes and then Bond would shoot him between the eyes..
    Sounds useless to me.. Just saying.

    He was an extremely low level agent used to get intelligence and email or text it to the handler.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I can see where you are going with this, but honestly he would appear for about two minutes and then Bond would shoot him between the eyes..
    Sounds useless to me.. Just saying.

    He was an extremely low level agent used to get intelligence and email or text it to the handler.

    Bond wouldn't lay a single finger on him; we see that at the end of QoS. He's past those demons at this point in his life, and realizes how futile personal revenge is, and how much you risk hurting others because of it.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,423
    I can see where you are going with this, but honestly he would appear for about two minutes and then Bond would shoot him between the eyes..
    Sounds useless to me.. Just saying.

    He was an extremely low level agent used to get intelligence and email or text it to the handler.

    Bond wouldn't lay a single finger on him; we see that at the end of QoS. He's past those demons at this point in his life, and realizes how futile personal revenge is, and how much you risk hurting others because of it.
    You certainly know your stuff, mate! Same thought had occurred to me. Revenge might make you feel better only for a minute or two, but eventually you'll realize it was not the way you have had planned to get even with the odds.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2014 Posts: 28,694
    I can see where you are going with this, but honestly he would appear for about two minutes and then Bond would shoot him between the eyes..
    Sounds useless to me.. Just saying.

    He was an extremely low level agent used to get intelligence and email or text it to the handler.

    Bond wouldn't lay a single finger on him; we see that at the end of QoS. He's past those demons at this point in his life, and realizes how futile personal revenge is, and how much you risk hurting others because of it.
    You certainly know your stuff, mate! Same thought had occurred to me. Revenge might make you feel better only for a minute or two, but eventually you'll realize it was not the way you have had planned to get even with the odds.

    I think the scene where Bond drops Camille off and they part shows this in a kind of blink-and-you-miss it way. He sees her, fresh from killing Medrano, the person she has lived only to kill, and she really doesn't seem to feel any different or any more at peace because of it. I think it's then that it really clicks for Bond, and just how much he'd be risking his life and the lives of those supporting him if he let his own personal revenge get ahead of the mission. When he utters the line "I don't think the dead care about vengeance," he cements this in his mind, and after the talks he had with Mathis, he knows Vesper wouldn't want him to kill for her. This is why he spares Yusef, even saying "she wouldn't want me to" to his face when he begs for it to be quick. After all, Vesper can never be brought back to him, no matter how much blood he spills on her behalf.

    A lot of people label QoS as a revenge film, but it certainly isn't; at least not from Bond's perspective. He doesn't step out of line all film to get revenge, and is often the only one with his head on straight. He gets all the Quantum leads, he identifies a lot of its members, he uncovers the drought plot and he stops Greene and Medrano, all with no assistance from his own people, barring M, who lets him run off. Everyone else the whole film either turns a head at Greene's antics, goes full on in joining up with him, or tries to stop Bond from pulling the plug on Quantum's plots for good. It's very much a film about Bond against everyone else, even his own agency, which is quite spectacular when you think about it. It's definitely one of the more morally ambiguous Bond adventures, especially from a political perspective, which adds to its appeal.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I agree with you completely @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Revenge was on Camille's mind, but not Bond's. He wanted closure. He wanted justice too. He got the former but not the latter, which is why White's return in SP is critical.

    I always was not happy with this whole thing because although it was done differently, that whole Vesper drowning, Bond looking for answers angle was so much like Bourne Supremacy (especially Marie underwater). In fact, it was Bourne, in the Bourne Supremacy, who says "she wouldn't want me to" and not Bond, who doesn't say anything to Yusef when he pleads for his life, but rather just stares him down.

    I just wasn't happy with the similarities between the two (given they were made within a few years of each other) and am so glad that this angle is behind us now.
  • @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, well said.

    This reminds me of the Double Dragon 2 arcade story: the female protagonist (Marion) is shot and at the end of the game when her attackers are all killed, the ending simply shows an old photo of the protagonists with Marion waving from when she was alive and a tear drop coming down from her face with sad music in the background.

    Back to Bond, no matter what he does he won't get Vesper back. This is something that can't be fully cemented in one film. That's why any reference to her in SP would be welcome. The whole discussion between Bond and M at the end is symbolic and was referenced in SF. For example, M's "that would be unprofessional" demeanor. The snow in the background in Kazaan, such a cold place which is what's going on in Bond's mind.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 1,280
    The basic premise of SP which we know, Bond receives a message pertaining to his past form an unlikely source...he wouldn't lay a finger on Yusef, so...

    Guy Haines would definitely be a plot hole if he'd not be in the film, no?
  • Posts: 14,799
    Guy Haines is a relatively.minor character who should have had more screentime and at least a mention to wraps things up in QOS. But he's not important enough imo to be in SF. White is the one that needs to be dealt with.
  • Dear Sam,

    So, I hear Mr. White is coming back for SP. So please contact the producers or Daniel Criag and let them know about your availability if you have any to return as Yusef. You could serve as the "unlikely source" to deliver some news to Bond as part of the plot. It's great that you've been cast in Agents of SHIELD: now you and the woman who played Corrine both have each of your own shows on ABC. But it would be very memorable of your acting career to come back as Yusef and cement your talrnt so that hopefully you could afford much higher budgets for bringing your style of movie producing to life.

    Please...make it quick!
  • I mean to write dear Simon, not Sam!
  • PS, Simon


    -did you actually pose with Eva Green or was she photoshopped in the picture shown on the plane? Just wondering because it'd be cool if Green was on set for QoS instead of just in memory.
  • Posts: 14,799
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    No i would say he is done with! White was the biggest loose end!

    I'm also against Yusef in SPECTRE but what about Guy Haines? He was a high ranking member of Quantum organization with connections to British Prime Minister. He's still at large. Ang he's danger with his political power. It's a loose end for me.

    I hope that SPECTRE will give me some answers.

    I,d love to see Guy Haines again if only because Paul Ritter is a great actor. But something may have happened to him inbetween QOS ans SP. Simple as that. The antagonism was mainly between Bond and White really, after the death of Le Chiffre.

    I think it was pretty clear that they were setting up Guy Haines as the big villain in Bond 23 or beyond. Possibly a modern day Blofeld. But things change all the time. Now that EON has the rights to Spectre back I guess Haines has become redundant with the looming presence of Blofeld. Still It'd be nice to see him pop up for a quick scene to give Quantum more closure.

    I don't think Haines was set up as a future main villain. He was one of many leaders of Quantum. In the board of directors, so to speak. QOS did not exploit this aspect fully or properly though. OS

    The original ending of QOS suggested otherwise. It featured Bond confronting Haines and Mr. White at Haines' mansion. It;s never been released on DVD. The closest we got to seeing it was the end of the QOS video game.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Haines was meant to be the head of Quantum. Didn't the laternate ending have White kill him? In any case, even a last confrontation with an important member of Quantum does not mean said important member is the main baddie.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    No i would say he is done with! White was the biggest loose end!

    I'm also against Yusef in SPECTRE but what about Guy Haines? He was a high ranking member of Quantum organization with connections to British Prime Minister. He's still at large. Ang he's danger with his political power. It's a loose end for me.

    I hope that SPECTRE will give me some answers.

    I,d love to see Guy Haines again if only because Paul Ritter is a great actor. But something may have happened to him inbetween QOS ans SP. Simple as that. The antagonism was mainly between Bond and White really, after the death of Le Chiffre.

    I think it was pretty clear that they were setting up Guy Haines as the big villain in Bond 23 or beyond. Possibly a modern day Blofeld. But things change all the time. Now that EON has the rights to Spectre back I guess Haines has become redundant with the looming presence of Blofeld. Still It'd be nice to see him pop up for a quick scene to give Quantum more closure.

    I don't think Haines was set up as a future main villain. He was one of many leaders of Quantum. In the board of directors, so to speak. QOS did not exploit this aspect fully or properly though. OS

    The original ending of QOS suggested otherwise. It featured Bond confronting Haines and Mr. White at Haines' mansion. It;s never been released on DVD. The closest we got to seeing it was the end of the QOS video game.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Haines was meant to be the head of Quantum. Didn't the laternate ending have White kill him? In any case, even a last confrontation with an important member of Quantum does not mean said important member is the main baddie.

    I always thought the original ending had White shooting Bond and leaving us with a cliffhanger. IDK I remember reading that Haines was meant to be the leader of Quantum. But maybe you're right.
  • Posts: 14,799
    And if they wanted Guy Haines to be the big baddy, why didn't they give a more prominent importance to the character and Paul Ritter in the movie? He is barely featured in it, and mostly through pictures.
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