Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    And Bond continued to age in the continuation novels reaching his mid-50s and still be a super effective agent. So, are we still living by the standards of the 1950s?

    The continuation novels are not canon, surely. I consider them glorified fanfics but they're not Fleming in any case so not references.
    Like I said, a matter of perspective. One day they become canon, another day they don't. That's up to the Ian Fleming Publications to decide whether they are or they aren't. As long as they have been published under official authorization, I consider them "canon".
    And Bond continued to age in the continuation novels reaching his mid-50s and still be a super effective agent. So, are we still living by the standards of the 1950s?

    Ihmo, if it wasnt under fleming it doesnt count but okay.
    A matter of perspective.

    This. I mean, it's not as if Fleming never dropped the ball. I rate some of the Gardner and Benson books higher than at least TSWLM. DAF and GF too.
    Hear hear!
  • Posts: 14,844
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2017 Posts: 13,894
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    I would say that Amis, Gardner, Benson etc.. are cannon. Hatfield, on the other hand, isn't cannon.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    I would say that Amis, Gardner, Benson etc.. are cannon. Hatfield, on the other hand, isn't cannon.
    Exactly. The Killing Zone wasn't commissioned by Glidrose. So, I don't consider that (and some of the other unofficial titles) canon.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.
  • Posts: 19,339
    At least out of all those authors ,to me,Gardner is definitely canon.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    I would say that Amis, Gardner, Benson etc.. are cannon. Hatfield, on the other hand, isn't cannon.
    Exactly. The Killing Zone wasn't commissioned by Glidrose. So, I don't consider that (and some of the other unofficial titles) canon.

    Precisely. I think it's down to each individual fan. As far as I am aware, there is no hard rule on it. This particular fans does count the continuation books as cannon.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.
    Definitely! People are still living like it's the world of the 1950s. A covert operative with excessive training and effective background like Bond would be a lot more advanced with healthiness, age, skills and even ideals in this century. Times have changed a lot since then and as did the lifestyles, physical development and strategies. But, the "purists" are hellbent on insisting that isn't true.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    I would say that Amis, Gardner, Benson etc.. are cannon. Hatfield, on the other hand, isn't cannon.
    Exactly. The Killing Zone wasn't commissioned by Glidrose. So, I don't consider that (and some of the other unofficial titles) canon.

    Precisely. I think it's down to each individual fan. As far as I am aware, there is no hard rule on it. This particular fans does count the continuation books as cannon.
    So do I, Major!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,571
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    ... and @Murdock nails it again...
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    But craig will be 54 not 45
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    But craig will be 54 not 45

    What are you talking about? Craig is 49.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    But craig will be 54 not 45

    What are you talking about? Craig is 49.

    I only got in to this discussion because some people said Craig should do Bond 26 in 2022. In that year Craig will be 54
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    But craig will be 54 not 45

    What are you talking about? Craig is 49.

    I only got in to this discussion because some people said Craig should do Bond 26 in 2022. In that year Craig will be 54

    Why are we talking about Bond 26? Who the heck knows when that will come out? What is the conversation here? :O
  • Posts: 386
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    I like Craig and I want him to continue. What he needs is decent material to work with.

    His downfall, IMHO, has been Mendes.

    As the box office went up, DC's performances went down.

    Not sure what Mendes was after, but it certainly wasn't a strong, vibrant Bond character.
  • Posts: 14,844
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    Basic notions of literature. Conan Doyle had contimuators for his Sherlock Holmes stories when he was alive and well. Only his work is considered canon. Not the thousands of fanfics, pastiches, etc.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually no what is canonical is what the author wrote. Unless it's a collective work.
    And that statement is evident where exactly?

    Basic notions of literature. Conan Doyle had contimuators for his Sherlock Holmes stories when he was alive and well. Only his work is considered canon. Not the thousands of fanfics, pastiches, etc.
    The continuations were not administered and commissioned by his estate and it wasn't so until The House of Silk by Anthony Horowitz. Sure, Doyle's son briefly participated in a few Holmes pastiches, but none of those were officially authorized by the Conan Doyle estate, with the aforementioned book already a success and as such considered a gem among critics and fans alike, many experts already holding it on the same plateau as the originals by the man himself.

    So again, by what law and where does it claim only the original creator's work is canon? You show me the evidence to that, and I'll rest my case.
  • Posts: 14,844
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    He wouldn't be sacked but at some point he'd be transferred to a desk job or an instructor job or something like this, where his skills can be used at their maximum while avoiding the risks brought by age (however healthy one's lifestyle may be) and the physical toll of an operative's work. I might be wrong but in the army 45 is the age limit for field duty. Otherwise I think @bondjames said it best.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
    Already done before.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
    Already done before.

    In film?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
    Already done before.

    In film?
    No. In comics and animated series (the latter a bit briefly).
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't care how old Bond is in film. The films are not in the same boat as the books. Plus in this day in age it's rather silly for someone in their prime who is 45 and older to be sacked from their job. Seasoned agents are a benefit not a detriment.

    He wouldn't be sacked but at some point he'd be transferred to a desk job or an instructor job or something like this, where his skills can be used at their maximum while avoiding the risks brought by age (however healthy one's lifestyle may be) and the physical toll of an operative's work. I might be wrong but in the army 45 is the age limit for field duty. Otherwise I think @bondjames said it best.

    In the novels sure but movies are their own thing. Some liberties should be taken.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2017 Posts: 8,127
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
    Already done before.

    In film?
    No. In comics and animated series (the latter a bit briefly).

    Okay, so not really relevant. The point is, James Bond is one of those characters who is viewed as being in his peak years, broadly because that's how Fleming wrote him. If Craig is your favourite Bond, you personallly might not care about his age, and can see him playing the role for another 5 years - just don't expect and act like general audiences feel the same way.
  • Posts: 14,844
    Some liberties have to be taken but I say a Bond in his fifties especially showing his age is stretching credibility. Not only as an operative but as a seducer (and yes I know you can be a womanizer at any age.) He's James Bond not Humbert Humbert.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2017 Posts: 15,423
    GetCarter wrote: »
    You'd think there'd be secret agents of all ages out there.

    But he isn't just "secret agent man", he's James Bond. It's like saying, "you'd think they'd be superheroes of all ages out there, so lets make Spider-man 50 years old. Why not?"
    Already done before.

    In film?
    No. In comics and animated series (the latter a bit briefly).

    Okay, so not really relevant. The point is, James Bond is one of those characters who is viewed as being in his peak years, broadly because that's how Fleming wrote him. If he's your favourite Bond, you personallly might not care about his age, and can see him playing the role for another 5 years - just don't expect and act like general audiences feel the same way.
    And the counter-argument to that, my friend, is that what you wrote is also an opinion and not a fact. You're saying because it's comics and it isn't relevant, but when Fleming started him off as somebody in his 30s, with both being works of fiction, you're saying the latter is relevant? Seems like a contradiction to me on a concrete ground.

    I'm not saying let's cast a 50 year old to make his debut as Bond, it won't be the smart thing to do in the first place. But, a field agent like James Bond, much like Ethan Hunt and constantly Jim Phelps before him, do have what it took them to be effect in their line of work. If they start slipping, then I am sure the authority behind their agencies will have them retired. Seasoned agents have always been out there.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Some liberties have to be taken but I say a Bond in his fifties especially showing his age is stretching credibility. Not only as an operative but as a seducer (and yes I know you can be a womanizer at any age.) He's James Bond not Humbert Humbert.
    ...which I'll also say, can be achieved in fiction and can be achieved on film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    And my response is what does it matter? It's make believe. If the writers want an older Bond to seduce a younger woman then what's written on the page will happen. Plus there are lots of older men in the world who can seduce a woman with ease.
  • Posts: 14,844
    Murdock wrote: »
    And my response is what does it matter? It's make believe. If the writers want an older Bond to seduce a younger woman then what's written on the page will happen. Plus there are lots of older men in the world who can seduce a woman with ease.

    I already said one can be a womanizer at any age. Yes if it's written it will happen but how believable or even tasteful is a Bond seducing a woman young enough to be his daughter or even granddaughter? There's a difference between a Don Juan and a satyr. Bond can easily be the former, heck he IS a modern Don Juan, but he should not be the latter.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'm sure Bond in his 50s won't go for twenty-somethings. He'll go for more mature women close to his age.
  • Posts: 14,844
    I'm sure Bond in his 50s won't go for twenty-somethings. He'll go for more mature women close to his age.

    I hope so. It was not always the case with Moore. Or even Brosnan in DAD. It's not incidental that the most believable relationship Moore Bond had was with a Bond girl closer to his age. But in any case, a Bond in his 30s got a certain "range". And he's at an age when he's not necessarily settled down yet, when being a bachelor is fairly common. In your 50s, you're generally in a relationship, or divorced, but a good chunk of your life has been lived. You are older, wiser...
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