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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,840
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Yes, that is a good comparison.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I thought I was the only one who took umbrage with this scene. It was terrible. Even the framing of when Craig says I came here to kill you looks phenomenally bad. He looks like a shrunken turtle in a tight suit. Honestly, the dialogue, the execution of it mostly was just horrendous and like you said the directing of it was just bad.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    DAF is not the worst Sean Connery James Bond film (and I'm not counting NSNA, either).

    How's that for controversy? ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BMW_with_missiles wrote: »

    Exactly. We finally got a classic Bond film again and most people hate it. I hope EON sees that the main issue with Spectre was a few weak plot points a not its return to the classic formula. I'm genuinely concerned about what the next Bond film, and even more, what the next Bond will be like. I also must add that Spectre fairs much better on a second viewing than on the first (at least for me).

    That's a bit over the top isn't it? Most people (I assume when we say 'most' we are talking on here as the box office was healthy enough to suggest the general public were happy with it) are very critical of it but that's not the same as hating it.

    We are fans so of course we are going to rip apart moronic decisions like the foster brother but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of good stuff in the film. Trouble is once you raise the bar like the Craig era has attempted to do you cant turn in a sloppy script and get away with it as easily. Take Leicester - if come next October they are midtable there will be some fans saying 'Ranieri out' despite midtable being dreamland for a club like Leicester.
    CR and SF (despite it being far from perfect) have elevated Bond from the hackneyed cliches of Rog and Brozza to something with character arcs and 'depth'. From the trailer SP was expected to deliver at a similar level and the fact that it didn't really live up to its promise is annoying and has seen a lot of flak (justifiably) thrown its way.

    I have yet to see anyone who has it down amongst the DADs of the world so not sure it's actually hated by many. Most people have it somewhere around the middle which is probably where it deserves and no ones more disappointed than me at the fact it doesn't rank higher.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    The character of Bond Fleming ripped of Leslie Charteris. As he's basically
    just the saint ! ( That should be controversial ) :D

    I don't get that. I've read some of Chateris's original stories and I find The Saint to be a markedly different character than the literary Bond in temperament, motivation and in just about every way that matters. However, I do see a connection between the small screen Saint and the cinematic Bond.

    Agreed. Beside, The Saint has far more in common with Arsène Lupin than Bond.

    The cinematic version of James Bond did borrow a lot from the literary Saint as written by Leslie Charteris. And I would know as I have got the whole Saint series in my book collection [like 007 series in several languages and version].

    I read little of The Saint, but to me it was clear that the literary Simon Templar was a modernized Arsène Lupin.

    Not just Arsene Lupin, the classic hero's as Bulldog Drummond, Richard Hannay and such. The Saint is more than a burglar in that sense he is more of a Robin Hood kind of character with a wicked sense of humor. I read Arsene Lupin and can hardly accuse him of great witticism. Simon Templar is a British gentleman adventurer that has been around since 1938.
    Hardly surprising he influenced James Bond and all who came after him.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    I despise GE for being the film which made Bond into nothing more than a run and gun action hero. He has never truly regained his spy status.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I thought I was the only one who took umbrage with this scene. It was terrible. Even the framing of when Craig says I came here to kill you looks phenomenally bad. He looks like a shrunken turtle in a tight suit. Honestly, the dialogue, the execution of it mostly was just horrendous and like you said the directing of it was just bad.

    God that exchange was so awkward. I think it's a reference to DN 'depends on which side of the glass you're standing' or something like that but it was a very poorly written reference in that case.

    It didn't even work in the trailer for me, and neither did most of the other lines put in the film just for the trailer (I think you're just getting started... etc.)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I thought I was the only one who took umbrage with this scene. It was terrible. Even the framing of when Craig says I came here to kill you looks phenomenally bad. He looks like a shrunken turtle in a tight suit. Honestly, the dialogue, the execution of it mostly was just horrendous and like you said the directing of it was just bad.

    God that exchange was so awkward. I think it's a reference to DN 'depends on which side of the glass you're standing' or something like that but it was a very poorly written reference in that case.

    It didn't even work in the trailer for me, and neither did most of the other lines put in the film just for the trailer (I think you're just getting started... etc.)

    Can I just add, I think the version of "you're a kite dancing..." Was better in the trailer than in the actual film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    I've always thought the version of the kite line heard in the trailer is the exact same as the one in the finished product. The lines sound like they're delivered in the exact same way. The big line change from trailer-to-film from SP that I didn't like was the "Welcome, James" line by Oberhauser. The way he shouts it in the final movie doesn't sound as menacing, and the way it's pronounced makes it sound like he's telling everyone else in attendance to welcome him.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    Nah, sounds way better in the trailer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think "And FINALLY, here we are!" is also different, and I preferred the trailer there too. More menacing and charismatic.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I guess I'm the only one who loved that exchange. Aww well.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    jake24 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I guess I'm the only one who loved that exchange. Aww well.

    No, that dialogue is poetry. Some people just don't get it.

    In my opinion Spectre has by far, the best dialogue in the Craig-era. Even in the whole franchise it is a contender for the Top 5.

    If you look for the worst ever dialogue, look for SF, Silva's entrance speech and of course the most embarrassing moment ever in the franchise:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/inPk9M0v320"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    and the most cringe-worthy moment ever with some of the worst acting ever (Bardem):
    the dialogue is especially bad.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5Fzs9K_ZNhk"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @BondJasonBond006, I'm sorry to say that this is one of my all time favourite scenes in all of Bondom, along with the similar goofy stuff in GE (tasting like strawberries and what not). Charisma blasting out of the screen in both cases.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I guess I'm the only one who loved that exchange. Aww well.

    No, that dialogue is poetry. Some people just don't get it.

    In my opinion Spectre has by far, the best dialogue in the Craig-era. Even in the whole franchise it is a contender for the Top 5.

    If you look for the worst ever dialogue, look for SF, Silva's entrance speech and of course the most embarrassing moment ever in the franchise:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/inPk9M0v320"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    and the most cringe-worthy moment ever with some of the worst acting ever (Bardem):
    the dialogue is especially bad.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5Fzs9K_ZNhk"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Listen, I agree wholeheartedly. Sliva is an obsolutely shockingly poor villian. An insult to the franchise and to Bardem as an actor. He is better than that. The worst thing about Skyfall, and I like that film.

    I should also mention that I am also a firm supporter of SPECTRE, despite what I said about that particular scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2016 Posts: 17,691

    jake24 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    Here's one:

    "So James, why did you come?"

    "I came here to kill you"

    "And I thought you came here to die."

    "Well, It's all a matter of perspective."

    Possibly the worst exchange of the Craig films. Worse than the drippy love dialogue from CR.

    It's extremely awkward how Waltz just stops and turns in the hallway like that. Very shoddy, uninspired direction. The whole exchange seems stitched together from three separate takes. There is no attempt to make it seem more natural. Plus, the scene itself, while very trailer-worthy, is utterly pointless.

    I guess I'm the only one who loved that exchange. Aww well.
    I love it as well. It's so... everything or nothing.....
    :))
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, I'm sorry to say that this is one of my all time favourite scenes in all of Bondom, along with the similar goofy stuff in GE (tasting like strawberries and what not). Charisma blasting out of the screen in both cases.

    I respect that, I don't agree but I respect your opinion.

    Silva in DAD, DAF or even GE might have worked way better. In SF he didn't fit in with the tone of the movie, they should have made the villain creepy, dangerous and very sinister and not a clown. It's no coincidence Silva gets compared to Joker so much. Even if that's a big insult to Ledger imo.

    Anyway, it's no secret I more or less hate Silva, respectively Bardem's acting in SF. That can't be undone.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,113
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, I'm sorry to say that this is one of my all time favourite scenes in all of Bondom, along with the similar goofy stuff in GE (tasting like strawberries and what not). Charisma blasting out of the screen in both cases.

    I respect that, I don't agree but I respect your opinion.

    Silva in DAD, DAF or even GE might have worked way better. In SF he didn't fit in with the tone of the movie, they should have made the villain creepy, dangerous and very sinister and not a clown. It's no coincidence Silva gets compared to Joker so much. Even if that's a big insult to Ledger imo.

    Anyway, it's no secret I more or less hate Silva, respectively Bardem's acting in SF. That can't be undone.

    When my brother watched Skyfall for the first time, he couldn't believe how bad Bardem's performance was. I mean, he was genuinely taken aback.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    The actors generally rise or sink to the material they're given...
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    Posts: 1,965
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever. I watched it again recently. I just cant sink my teeth into it at all. Every time I see the total number of Bond films Craig which were 4 I always put an asterisk next to QOS. It a Bond film, but not really to me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    Posts: 1,965
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))
  • Problem_EliminatorProblem_Eliminator Ojai, CA
    Posts: 613
    QOS is good it just has bad editing during action scenes, but it is more watchable than a few of the moore movies.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))

    Tell me you're into the Scooby Gang and I'll completely love you :-*
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    Posts: 1,965
    Problem_Eliminator wrote: »
    QOS is good it just has bad editing during action scenes, but it is more watchable than a few of the moore movies.

    I take all the Moore movies over QOS. Even Moonraker & AVTAK which are #2 & #7 on my rankings list
  • Problem_EliminatorProblem_Eliminator Ojai, CA
    Posts: 613
    I wouldn't myself but to each his own.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))

    Tell me you're into the Scooby Gang and I'll completely love you :-*

    Once more with feeling....
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    chrisisall wrote: »
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    QOS is still the worst Eon Bond film ever.
    Silly silly British man...

    lol im not British
    It's a figure of Buffy-speak.
    :))

    Tell me you're into the Scooby Gang and I'll completely love you :-*

    Once more with feeling....

    Exactly
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