Skyfall Shower Scene - Recut and Rescored

in Fan Creations Posts: 666
I've recently done a fanedit of Skyfall to change stuff I thought could be improved in the movie.

I thought this scene in particular was of interest - the scene where Bond and Severine shower together. The original scene has been criticized for the encounter not seeming consensual, as Bond sneaks up on her in the shower. It's creepy and feels even more so considering Severine's past as an abused prostitute.

How to fix this? Well, just get rid of the implication that she doesn't know Bond is there. This means dropping the entire idea that Bond's arrival on the boat is uncertain, i.e. cutting the casino fight (a Roger Moore-esque scene that didn't suit Craig anyway). I also switched out the music for something that sounds more romantic (unused Skyfall track by Newman called "Old Dog, New Tricks") and cut all the dialogue.



More info on the fanedit: https://ifdb.fanedit.org/skyfall-reborn/
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Comments

  • Posts: 10,437
    It's a little less perfunctory but still one of the worst scenes in the film.

    She's just told him she was a child prostitute. Jumping in the shower with her naked just doesn't seem like the appropriate response.
  • Posts: 3,229
    That’s quite a list of issues that seem poorly thought out in SF
  • Posts: 10,437
    Don't get me started on Skyfail.
  • edited May 13 Posts: 2,516
    "The fan doth protest too much, methinks"

    ;)

    She was openly flirting with him and both of them knew what they were doing. Don't overthink it. It's a Bond movie, ffs.
  • edited May 13 Posts: 10,437
    I don't think I'm over analysing it. The scene has been widely flagged by a lot of people on here as deeply creepy. Hell, this guy has gone as far as reediting it.

    Just because it's in a Bond film doesnt mean I let it pass. I expect a lot from a Bond film. For me this is just another bit of sloppy writing and directing.

    It's the child prostitute back story and his entry into the shower that makes it all a bit weird.

    The Monica Bellucci 'seduction' in SP is another odd one. Not as bad as this but not really convincing.
  • edited May 13 Posts: 251
    Knock it off with the PC nonsense. Bond has been doing this since the 60s. He’s Bond. That’s what he does. If you don’t like this then you shouldn’t be watching Bond movies.

    Bond does not ask “May I enter the shower with you?”. He just does. And the girl likes it. Such is the wonderful world of James Bond.
  • Posts: 10,437
    Not PC. I care less about that than most.

    What I care about is the plausibility of Bond's actions against an understanding we've gained of his personality traits over the decades and the quality of writing and direction.

    The scenes I'm flagging just grate and don't convince me.
  • Posts: 3,229
    I thought part of the scene at the casino was to show she was damaged in the past and was vulnerable. I’d never thought of it as pure flirtation.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,213
    @Getafix in a thread criticizing Skyfall some things never change.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 15,931
    Getafix wrote: »
    Don't get me started on Skyfail.

    Me too. It's hard to get through for me.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 4,171
    I admire the effort, but don’t think the results make a tangible difference.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Quantum of Moustache
    edited May 14 Posts: 3,182
    It's a very nice edit. Very smooth, well scored and skillful at taking the original scene and using it to create something different. I do love how seeing Bond appear in the shower now reveals that Sévérine was knowingly with him in her room before that. Great touch.

    Edit: I think in the original film she did know he was there, with the champagne and the glasses, but obviously she didn't see him until he snuck into the shower. That said, I still prefer this edit. It's not necessarily a better idea to show that she was with him before getting into the shower, but it's better executed than what they intended in the original version, which lacked a build up in terms of seduction. Merely showing Sévérine noticing the bottle and the glasses and then cutting to her in the shower just doesn't cut it.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 4,716
    Oh, I credit Sévérine with seeking escape through Bond on multiple levels. Including her choice to make love on her own terms. She deserved it. So the set-up in the casino and the fight and the meeting at Chimera play perfectly fine with me.

    And it's not like Bond himself hasn't been called damaged goods.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,218
    Just my opinion - I always thought this seemed consensual to me. For sure it never bothered me this scene. Based on all Severine did in the film.
  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    Okay let me put it like this. If Bond is waiting in the cabin with a glass of champagne as she steps out the shower then to me that would be more the character we know. And frankly more entertaining.

    A few lines of witty dialogue (some chance) and then they get down to business? I'd have no problem with that.

    What we got was perfunctory, lacking in seduction or wit. Classic Mendes.

    Sorry to bash SF more generally but it really is symptomatic of the whole film. Lots of perfectly good ideas just badly written or executed. Always something missing or not quite right about the pacing or tone in every scene.
  • Posts: 666
    Thanks for the comments everyone.
    vzok wrote: »
    That’s quite a list of issues that seem poorly thought out in SF

    I changed or cut maybe 5% of the movie. Generally, I like the other 95%.

    This is just a fun hobby of mine. I do find the original scene uncomfortable and I have since viewing it in cinema. It's only one of a few seduction scenes in the series that make me uncomfortable (other two are Pussy Galore and Patricia Fearing). This one isn't as bad - it's just she doesn't know he's there, and that makes it feel weird IMO. I know not everyone will agree with me.
  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    Milovy wrote: »
    Thanks for the comments everyone.
    vzok wrote: »
    That’s quite a list of issues that seem poorly thought out in SF

    I changed or cut maybe 5% of the movie. Generally, I like the other 95%.

    This is just a fun hobby of mine. I do find the original scene uncomfortable and I have since viewing it in cinema. It's only one of a few seduction scenes in the series that make me uncomfortable (other two are Pussy Galore and Patricia Fearing). This one isn't as bad - it's just she doesn't know he's there, and that makes it feel weird IMO. I know not everyone will agree with me.

    I completely agree with you. 100% weird. I also felt exactly the same way when I first saw the film. Very much not the Bond character we know. Perfunctory. The scene just misses a beat.

    For me there is a running theme in SF and SP which is that despite both films being inordinately long I am constantly left waiting at the end of a scene for something else - an explanation, a punchline, some kind of pay off. Its like a series of paragraphs that are each left hanging without an ending. It's obviously Mendes' style and reflects the way he thinks but for me it just means scene after scene feels deflated and not punching at the right level.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 4,171
    Just my opinion - I always thought this seemed consensual to me. For sure it never bothered me this scene. Based on all Severine did in the film.

    I agree, she obviously was waiting for Bond, or at least hoping he would arrive. Nothing is non-consensual

  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    She's got a bottle of champagne on ice so she clearly expects a naked man to appear in her shower...

    I don't deny that it's depicted as 'consensual' but given she was a child prostitute perhaps it's not unreasonable to assume her own understanding of what consent means could be a little bit f****d up. I think the Bond we are familiar with would have known this too and the way the 'seduction' unfolds is as someone else said above very weird.

    Bond is supposed to have a soft spot for these damaged women but then the scene needs to acknowledge in some way the devastating revelations she's made in the casino.

    But if this is how you guys like your Bond, fair enough.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,218
    I like my Bond as in Skyfall, yes. Seriously, this scene never bothered me and I was always surprised others took issue with it.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited May 14 Posts: 2,130
    Just my opinion - I always thought this seemed consensual to me. For sure it never bothered me this scene. Based on all Severine did in the film.

    Same, I thought it was just classic Bond getting the girl, I didn't think he was trying to rape her. The score also helped. We know the character, we know he's a gentleman and he would immediately get off her if she rejected him. Moreover we know Babs is a feminist, if she approved the scene she knows this too. I think people read too much in these movies. Like Bond saying "what makes you think this is my first time?", really, anyone who knows Bond is aware of the fact that Bond always tries to put the villains off by saying unexpected things. This is even foreshadowed like 30 seconds earlier when Silva asks Bond "How you're trying to remember your training now. What's the regulation to cover this?" That never ever meant to imply that Bond is bisexual. Again, people only see what they want to see.

    Now, going back to the shower scene, yeah, admittedly it was poorly written. @Getafix is right, it is very creepy considering she'd just revealed her prostitute backstory to Bond. I don't think Mendes had any bad intentions when filming the scene, he just wanted to make a classic and sexy "Bond gets the girl" scene, but he put little thought in what the scene looks like and it does look as if Severine were non-consensual. I hope I made myself clear.
  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    Thanks @Walecs. A balanced response. I think it makes it look like Bond is making a lot of assumptions that frankly only a sleazebag would make. It's just all wrong and not Bondian in the slightest. He's sexually assertive but this is a different level.

    I never had a problem with Silva's entrance and his toying with Bond. With hindsight that scene is the highpoint in the film. Although there were lots of things I didn't like in the PTS, overall I felt SF was building quite nicely up until the point they leave Silva's island. That's when it loses its way for me.

    The 'what makes you think it's my first time' line was funny. I have no problem with that at all. Given that Fleming's Bond was supposed to have gone to Eton, its highly likely the literary Bond had had some homo-erotic experiences. One for the fanboys to get all worked up about. ;)
  • Posts: 251
    Bond doesn’t even force himself on Severine (she welcomes his presence in the shower) unlike in GF where Pussy is clearly pushing him off her. So I don’t understand why people get worked up over this scene. Nobody gets worked up over the GF scene because it’s just classic misogynistic Bond. So why get worked up over a clearly consensual scene in SF? Who cares if she’s damaged goods? That was then, this is now. Bond isn’t here to damage her. Sheesh!
  • ResurrectionResurrection Where world collide and days are dark
    Posts: 850
    Bond doesn’t even force himself on Severine (she welcomes his presence in the shower) unlike in GF where Pussy is clearly pushing him off her. So I don’t understand why people get worked up over this scene. Nobody gets worked up over the GF scene because it’s just classic misogynistic Bond. So why get worked up over a clearly consensual scene in SF? Who cares if she’s damaged goods? That was then, this is now. Bond isn’t here to damage her. Sheesh!

    Because it's Daniel Craig bond who isn't charming like sean's bond. People are oversensitive these days you can't help it.
  • Posts: 235
    Bond doesn’t even force himself on Severine (she welcomes his presence in the shower) unlike in GF where Pussy is clearly pushing him off her. So I don’t understand why people get worked up over this scene. Nobody gets worked up over the GF scene because it’s just classic misogynistic Bond. So why get worked up over a clearly consensual scene in SF? Who cares if she’s damaged goods? That was then, this is now. Bond isn’t here to damage her. Sheesh!

    She tells him where to find her, and leaves two glasses out. She wants Bond to come.
  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    Bond doesn’t even force himself on Severine (she welcomes his presence in the shower) unlike in GF where Pussy is clearly pushing him off her. So I don’t understand why people get worked up over this scene. Nobody gets worked up over the GF scene because it’s just classic misogynistic Bond. So why get worked up over a clearly consensual scene in SF? Who cares if she’s damaged goods? That was then, this is now. Bond isn’t here to damage her. Sheesh!

    The GF scene with Pussy hasnt dated well. But it was also made 50 years prior to SF so we have to see it in the context of its times.

    SF was made at a time when issues around child abuse, consent etc were major topics. The scene is just not cool or clever on any level.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited May 14 Posts: 11,218
    I still don't get any creepy vibe from it. The way Severine reacted to Bond earlier in the film, inviting him, all of that made it acceptable to me. Her back story does not make me feel that she was in any way used by Bond. I actually thought it was handled sensitively enough, the way Bond approached her, etc. I just disagree about it being creepy or unsettling. It still is not to me, but it's no big deal. I'll step out of the thread now, as I cannot contribute further. I have no problem with the scene, but I've made that clear already.
  • Posts: 251
    Getafix wrote: »
    Bond doesn’t even force himself on Severine (she welcomes his presence in the shower) unlike in GF where Pussy is clearly pushing him off her. So I don’t understand why people get worked up over this scene. Nobody gets worked up over the GF scene because it’s just classic misogynistic Bond. So why get worked up over a clearly consensual scene in SF? Who cares if she’s damaged goods? That was then, this is now. Bond isn’t here to damage her. Sheesh!

    The GF scene with Pussy hasnt dated well. But it was also made 50 years prior to SF so we have to see it in the context of its times.

    SF was made at a time when issues around child abuse, consent etc were major topics. The scene is just not cool or clever on any level.
    I think the problem is you’re not watching the Bond films as entertainment (or at least the Daniel Craig era Bond films) which is what they are. Or supposed to be. If you look at them as “how would a man in a real world scenario handle this?” then you will continue to be bothered by all sorts of things. This is Bond! Martinis, girls, and guns. That sort of thing. Maybe you were watching the movie as a serious drama. A Sam Mendes drama. But that’s not how you should watch a Bond flick. Whether it’s Connery or Moore or Craig. He’s Bond. Bond is fantasy. Not real world scenarios. Real world concepts don’t apply to Bond. You might as well question how it is that Superman can fly. He just can.

  • edited May 14 Posts: 10,437
    Fair comment. I'd love to sit back and just enjoy a Bond film for pure entertainment. The last time I feel EON got close to that was QOS to be honest.

    But if you want me to enjoy a casual seduction scene don't tell me 5 minutes beforehand that the girl was a child prostitute. Any normal adult male's response to this titbit of info would not be to strip off and jump in the shower with the lass. Not because it's not the "PC" thing to do but because its totally f****d up.

    I mean, just think about it. For a second.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,851
    Getafix wrote: »
    Not PC. I care less about that than most.

    What I care about is the plausibility of Bond's actions against an understanding we've gained of his personality traits over the decades and the quality of writing and direction.

    The scenes I'm flagging just grate and don't convince me.

    There was nothing wrong with the shower scene. There was heat between the two the moment they laid eyes on each other in Shanghai, and that continued in the casino. On the surface, her past is a non-issue: she is no longer a child. But on a deeper level, her past allows the scene to work, from a psychological standpoint. What works in the shower scene is that Bond approaches her in a "protective" manner. This is important because she needs to be able to trust him. Both of these people have been using sex (or been used by sex) in abusive ways in their past. In this case, it's not. It's true and tender. It's what she needs: perhaps the first man to ever touch her in the way he does here. And Bond realizes she needs that.

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