Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 1,879
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I'm with @Andi1996Ruegg on this one. I really enjoy CR67. It's a mess of a film but it's a beautiful mess.

    I'm in that camp as well.

    Me too. There's just something about it.

    I'll go a step further and say I prefer it to that overrated mess starring Barry Nelson that treats Bond like Mike Hammer. Clarence Leiter?
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
    That's an interesting point and one which I share. As I've thought about it, I think he should have either left at the end of CR or at the end of SF, which was a perfect set up for it, seguing into the new/old M with the trope MI6 team and old office. He would have been remembered as the reboot Bond who reset everything and took it full circle.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    bondjames wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
    That's an interesting point and one which I share. As I've thought about it, I think he should have either left at the end of CR or at the end of SF, which was a perfect set up for it, seguing into the new/old M with the trope MI6 team and old office. He would have been remembered as the reboot Bond who reset everything and took it full circle.

    Exactly.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    jobo wrote: »
    Which plot is the most large scale?

    Sinister criminal organisation overthrows a government and takes control over a country's water supply, affecting the lives of tens of millions of people.

    Privat business man wants to increase the value of his own gold... (zzzzz)

    I let the jury decide...

    And cause economic chaos in the west. You conveniently forgot that bit....
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum

    It’s my dream to see a blood stone style film in the vain of the two first Craig entries where bond isn’t old yet and is still a bad ass, they could still do it as a prequel...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
    That's an interesting point and one which I share. As I've thought about it, I think he should have either left at the end of CR or at the end of SF, which was a perfect set up for it, seguing into the new/old M with the trope MI6 team and old office. He would have been remembered as the reboot Bond who reset everything and took it full circle.

    Leaving after CR a bit strong but certainly a standalone in 2010 and then new Bond after SF reset things would've probably been a good move. Hasn't Dan pretty much said it himself that he wanted to leave on a high and probably wishes now he'd walked before SP tarnished his era somewhat?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
    That's an interesting point and one which I share. As I've thought about it, I think he should have either left at the end of CR or at the end of SF, which was a perfect set up for it, seguing into the new/old M with the trope MI6 team and old office. He would have been remembered as the reboot Bond who reset everything and took it full circle.

    Leaving after CR a bit strong but certainly a standalone in 2010 and then new Bond after SF reset things would've probably been a good move. Hasn't Dan pretty much said it himself that he wanted to leave on a high and probably wishes now he'd walked before SP tarnished his era somewhat?
    The only reason I mentioned CR is because he probably would have been almost unanimously praised as the best Bond if he had exited after that origin story (as an example Laz is looked upon very favourably these days despite having no experience due to his work on one-off OHMSS). He was perfectly cast for it and gave a wonderful performance in it (although aided by a superb supporting cast). His films since that one have all had their fans and detractors.

    I can't recall him explicitly saying anything about SP's impact on his era though (unless I missed something). He's only recently said that he wants to exit on a high and that the press has made him out to be an ingrate. Then again, he didn't have to say it as many do feel the last effort was anything but a 'high'.
  • Posts: 12,243
    If Bond 25 can be like Craig’s FYEO I’ll have no complaints. My gut (unreliable I know) says it will at least be better than SP.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm really curious to see CR67 now, after these latest comments.

    If I were you, I would leave it there. Nothing about that film makes any sense, or is even the least bit funny.

    Totally agree Major,the whole 'film' is a disgusting waste of space.

    +1. A total waste of Niven too.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    FoxRox wrote: »
    If Bond 25 can be like Craig’s FYEO I’ll have no complaints. My gut (unreliable I know) says it will at least be better than SP.

    That or DAF, or a mix of it.
    A bit of black humor and kinky characters would do good.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    It's still Bond-related to some degree, I'm surprised people still have yet to try it out. The worst that can happen is you loathe it and never have to endure it again. Same goes with CR'54 and NSNA.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's still Bond-related to some degree, I'm surprised people still have yet to try it out. The worst that can happen is you loathe it and never have to endure it again. Same goes with CR'54 and NSNA.

    Exactly. Watching a non-EON Bond isn t like cheating on yourgirlfriend.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's still Bond-related to some degree, I'm surprised people still have yet to try it out. The worst that can happen is you loathe it and never have to endure it again. Same goes with CR'54 and NSNA.

    You know I enjoy all three. I don't break down and scrutinize Bond films like I do other cinema. But of the three my favorite is CR '54.

    I'd probably rank them '54 - NSNA - '67, but I do enjoy them all, and never feel like I'm "cheating" by watching and enjoying them. You got me into incorporating them into Bondathons, and I may have to add Becoming Bond whenever I do my next one.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    CR67 like Tosca isn't for everyone.

    It has a very distinctive 60s flair, the silliness that other 60s comedies have (The Party comes to mind) and even goes into musical territory.

    As I dearly love all three elements, CR67 is a joy to watch for me.
    I have no problems that Ian Fleming's Bond has been transformed to the screen as an outrageous comedy. No problems at all.

    Bond can be many things. Cinematic adaptions of books can be a variation or very true to the nature of the novel.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 17,241
    CR67 like Tosca isn't for everyone.

    It has a very distinctive 60s flair, the silliness that other 60s comedies have (The Party comes to mind) and even goes into musical territory.

    As I dearly love all three elements, CR67 is a joy to watch for me.
    I have no problems that Ian Fleming's Bond has been transformed to the screen as an outrageous comedy. No problems at all.

    Bond can be many things. Cinematic adaptions of books can be a variation or very true to the nature of the novel.

    Like CR67 for the very same reasons. I enjoy it more as a nice time capsule/60's comedy with spy elements more than a Bond adaptation. If you do that, you can enjoy it for what it is.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I think Craig should've left after SF. Also have a standalone film in 2010 that shows Bond in his prime taking down Quantum
    That's an interesting point and one which I share. As I've thought about it, I think he should have either left at the end of CR or at the end of SF, which was a perfect set up for it, seguing into the new/old M with the trope MI6 team and old office. He would have been remembered as the reboot Bond who reset everything and took it full circle.

    Leaving after CR a bit strong but certainly a standalone in 2010 and then new Bond after SF reset things would've probably been a good move. Hasn't Dan pretty much said it himself that he wanted to leave on a high and probably wishes now he'd walked before SP tarnished his era somewhat?
    The only reason I mentioned CR is because he probably would have been almost unanimously praised as the best Bond if he had exited after that origin story (as an example Laz is looked upon very favourably these days despite having no experience due to his work on one-off OHMSS). He was perfectly cast for it and gave a wonderful performance in it (although aided by a superb supporting cast). His films since that one have all had their fans and detractors.

    Cant argue with that. Although it would become a bit tragic if we start ditching a Bond actor after one good film to preserve his legacy as we have so little faith EON and their poor writing team to give him a worthy follow up.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I can't recall him explicitly saying anything about SP's impact on his era though (unless I missed something). He's only recently said that he wants to exit on a high and that the press has made him out to be an ingrate. Then again, he didn't have to say it as many do feel the last effort was anything but a 'high'.

    Well by implication him saying he's coming back because he wants to go out on a high therefore suggests he doesn't consider SP to be a high.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    If Craig will do one, two or even three more Bond films mainly depends on the size of his pay cheque.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948

    And here's me thinking England had taken over that role quite some time ago.. As it stands the English there just to give the Belgian's passing to the next round some colour, right?

    Sadly just shows how much you know about football then. My original comment mentioned padding our World Cup qualifying not the tournament. We tend to qualify pretty easily but as someone who was at the Iceland game I know better than most how shit we are once we get there. Still go farther than Bolivia though.

    You call playing against Lithuania and Malta qualifying? That group was made intentionally weak just so the English would stand a chance. Compare that to Bolivia who had to play Paraguay and Argentina.....
    I don't think they'd be applauding at the Odeon, no. They'd probably be standing La Paz's central square.

    A bit demeaning of your beloved Bolivia isn't it? Just because they all still queue up for water at pipe in the town square (people criticise Mendes for layering on the symbolism but Forster delivers classic film student drought imagery here) doesn't mean they don't have cinemas. I find the notion that they all have to stand in the middle of La Paz and watch films projected onto the wall of the presidential palace a bit insulting frankly.
    And I didn't say they don't have a cinema. The fact that we both don't happe nto know who sponsors the main cinema in La Paz is our shortcoming, not theirs. It's probably bigger AND better then the Odeon anyway.
    So because you lost an empire you still think you matter, is that it? Funny, because neither the Dutch, French or Spanish think the same way. Well, perhaps the French do.... If history tells us one thing, it's that Britain is a has-been. Quite literally after the Scots and Welsh do their own 'Brexit'.

    Now what's bizarre about that? The same arrogance, the same lack of education, the same ancestors. Except of course that the Americans at least have some German blood, so at least they can make half-arsed products, which is better then completely-arsed ones. Poteto potato.

    Methinks the Commander doth protest too much.

    I never mentioned England at any point I just said Bolivian water supplies weren't high stakes. But for some reason you decided to go off on a xenophobic rant against the English. But that's OK old chap; for an irrelevant, has been nation it's amazing how much ire we can still inspire. You don't ever see people frothing at the mouth over Estonia or Burkina Faso do you?

    In actuality the majority of Bond film plots don't even concern England that much, and certainly the high stakes ones don't:

    DN - American missiles at risk.
    FRWL - Sticking one to the Russians and improving Britain's status in the intelligence community.
    GF - American gold supply at risk.
    TB - British bombs nicked yes but it's America (and Miami in particular) that is under threat.
    YOLT - The world at risk.
    OHMSS - The world at risk.
    DAF - The world at risk.
    LALD - American under threat of a glut of heroin.
    TMWTGG - The world at risk (well barely. As far as I can tell Scaramanga's plan is to sell solar power to the highest bidder. I suppose might have some economic destabilising effect. Hardly thrilling though and hence we get a very limp climax).
    TSWLM - The world at risk.
    MR - The world at risk.
    FYEO - U.K. national security at risk.
    OP - Western Europe and possibly the world at risk.
    AVTAK - Silicon Valley at risk.
    TLD - The Soviets being swindled out of some money or diamonds or something. Not even sure anything is at risk reallly.
    LTK - A bog standard drug deal.
    GE - U.K. and global economy at risk.
    TND - U.K. at risk (if we are insane enough to declare war on China).
    TWINE - Western oil supplies at risk.
    DAD - The world at risk.
    CR - Stopping terrorist financing that was threatening the world.
    QOS - Bolivian water supply at risk (although this is incidental to a shadowy group controlling major (i.e. not Bolivia) governments).
    SF - U.K. intelligence personnel at risk.
    SP - Global intelligence threat.

    So Bond is actually closer to being the world's (or at least the west's) policeman rather than Blighty's.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm really curious to see CR67 now, after these latest comments.

    If I were you, I would leave it there. Nothing about that film makes any sense, or is even the least bit funny.

    Totally agree Major,the whole 'film' is a disgusting waste of space.

    Finally some sanity.
    Ah, that's a pity, I was actually hoping you'd defend old Blighty. I had a whole bunch of insults lined up. Oh well, I'll use them next time...

    I still think rescuing 11 million or so Bolivians is better then stopping some Americans having a drug habit or preventing Britain from a shortage of chickens, but I agree that Bond has played higher stakes. Still, that isn't the real threat and I do regret QoS wasn't more explicit in that department. It sure is too short and I think the writers' strike had something to do with that.

    CR '67, I will never understand how anyone likes that film! And it's the same people who don't understand what's going on in QoS because of the shakey cam!?!?! After CR '67 I walk to the fridge to get the laundry out, it makes that much sense!

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,759
    With the difference of course that CR67 is meant to be a ridiculous spoof and QOS is never meant to be incomprehensible.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    edited January 2018 Posts: 2,005
    QOS feels like FRWL put through a blender.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    Apart from perhaps the boat chase, I've never had a problem with the editing of QOS. Sure it could've been slowed down but I don't let it ruin the film. Honestly, I have a bigger problem with SP's editing. It just feels lifeless to me.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    Remington wrote: »
    Apart from perhaps the boat chase, I've never had a problem with the editing of QOS. Sure it could've been slowed down but I don't let it ruin the film. Honestly, I have a bigger problem with SP's editing. It just feels lifeless to me.

    I'm watching QoS as we speak. Commenting on it in the other thread. It's a mixed bag between sheer Greatness and pure atrocity.
    Luckily the Greatness drowns out the atrocity somewhat.
  • Posts: 14,800
    FoxRox wrote: »
    If Bond 25 can be like Craig’s FYEO I’ll have no complaints. My gut (unreliable I know) says it will at least be better than SP.

    That or DAF, or a mix of it.
    A bit of black humor and kinky characters would do good.

    That would be a very strange mix. I once dreamt I saw a Bond movie with Sean Connery which was a mix of DAF and FRWL.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    If Bond 25 can be like Craig’s FYEO I’ll have no complaints. My gut (unreliable I know) says it will at least be better than SP.

    That or DAF, or a mix of it.
    A bit of black humor and kinky characters would do good.

    That would be a very strange mix. I once dreamt I saw a Bond movie with Sean Connery which was a mix of DAF and FRWL.
    I think of TMWTGG in that way (I realize it stars Moore).
  • Posts: 14,800
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    If Bond 25 can be like Craig’s FYEO I’ll have no complaints. My gut (unreliable I know) says it will at least be better than SP.

    That or DAF, or a mix of it.
    A bit of black humor and kinky characters would do good.

    That would be a very strange mix. I once dreamt I saw a Bond movie with Sean Connery which was a mix of DAF and FRWL.
    I think of TMWTGG in that way (I realize it stars Moore).

    That is true in a way. Although more DAF than FRWL.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2018 Posts: 9,117
    You call playing against Lithuania and Malta qualifying? That group was made intentionally weak just so the English would stand a chance. Compare that to Bolivia who had to play Paraguay and Argentina.....

    Oh you do make me chuckle old chap.

    Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of FIFA knows that England and the English FA are universally despised. If it's countries being handed an easy passage you're looking for try France who benefitted from a convenient last minute rule change on the eve of the 2014 tournament because they were staring down the barrel of a group of death due to a poor qualification campaign.

    Poor Bolivia do have it tough though being stuck in CONMEBOL qualifying where a mere 50% of teams qualify (well 40% and one team gets a play off v NZ - which in footballing terms is a flyspeck on a par with Bolivia itself) compared to UEFA where less than 25% of teams get to qualify.

    And pitted against the might of Paraguay (didn't even qualify) too - they really had the odds stacked against them from the start! Handy little tip for you moving forwards - if you're trying to make a point about the strength of South American football it is usually prudent to mention Brazil at some point.
    And I didn't say they don't have a cinema.
    So why are they all standing in the town square then:
    I don't think they'd be applauding at the Odeon, no. They'd probably be standing La Paz's central square.
    Queuing for water perhaps from a pump in the middle of the square? Although no doubt you'll claim that was just despicable anti Bolivian propaganda by the West's lackey Forster and the reality in this latter day Eden all have Dom Perignon coming out of their taps?
    It's probably bigger AND better then the Odeon anyway.
    I'm sure it is son. I'm sure it is.
    Ah, that's a pity, I was actually hoping you'd defend old Blighty. I had a whole bunch of insults lined up. Oh well, I'll use them next time...

    Indeed a crying shame the world will now never get to hear your cutting Mcintyre-esque barbs about how shite the English are.
    I still think rescuing 11 million or so Bolivians is better then stopping some Americans having a drug habit or preventing Britain from a shortage of chickens, but I agree that Bond has played higher stakes. Still, that isn't the real threat and I do regret QoS wasn't more explicit in that department. It sure is too short and I think the writers' strike had something to do with that.

    Hate to shatter the illusion Forster is peddling that the Bolivian population is all going to drop dead of thirst the next day but actually Medrano signed the deal with Greene to keep the water running. Bond's intervention had no effect either way on the average peasant who would wake up the next morning to find the water was running again if Medrano's coup had succeeded or not. The only difference being the government had to shell out a load of money if Quantum succeeded. The old women in funny hats were never in danger because Medrano is shrewd enough to realise if the population has no water he would soon be lynched in La Paz town square (well with no cinema they have to make their own entertainment I suppose) so he's always going to cut a deal.

    If you think saving the Bolivian exchequer a lump of money to keep the taps on is high stakes then I'd love to see your definition of low stakes. Bond preventing the council demolishing a kid's playground to build a shopping centre?

    The plot of QOS is about Bond's personal journey and closure over Vesper and the emergence of Quantum. The fate of Bolivia's drinking water is a Mcguffin not even on a par with the Solex in terms of anyone in the audience actually giving a toss.

    Before we get chastised for derailing the thread however (perhaps you could start a 'Boliviaphiles and Anglophobes' thread?) I'd say I agree with your final sentence to be fair. Whilst I don't think it would have equalled or bettered CR, without the writer's strike the film could at least have been a very worthy followup. I certainly see it as more of a missed opportunity than an outright cock up (looking at you there SP).
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2018 Posts: 13,882
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm really curious to see CR67 now, after these latest comments.

    If I were you, I would leave it there. Nothing about that film makes any sense, or is even the least bit funny.

    Totally agree Major,the whole 'film' is a disgusting waste of space.

    "Excuse me, but are you Peter O'Toole?
    "No."
    *walks away*


    In what possible way could that be funny? I have seen CR'67 twice (the second time was after a number of years, to see if my original feelings were wrong, they weren't), and I have no desire to ever return to it.
  • Posts: 1,879
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm really curious to see CR67 now, after these latest comments.

    If I were you, I would leave it there. Nothing about that film makes any sense, or is even the least bit funny.

    Totally agree Major,the whole 'film' is a disgusting waste of space.

    "Excuse me, but are you Peter O'Toole?
    "No."
    *walks away*


    In what possible way could that be funny? I have seen CR'67 twice (the second time was after a number of years, to see if my original feelings were wrong, they weren't), and I have no desire to ever return to it.

    It may help if you got it correct. The actual O'Toole is marching with other bagpipers as Sellers is hallucinating and approaches the pipers. O'Toole pauses and asks Sellers "Are you Richard Burton?" to which he responds "No, I'm Peter O'Toole."

    O'Toole then says "Well then you're the finest man that ever breathed." It's the irony of it all and the idea you get an unexpected cameo from one of the biggest stars in the world at the time. No, not gut-busting funny but very out there. CR '67 is filled with cameos from stars. Take it or leave it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948
    You call playing against Lithuania and Malta qualifying? That group was made intentionally weak just so the English would stand a chance. Compare that to Bolivia who had to play Paraguay and Argentina.....

    Oh you do make me chuckle old chap.

    Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of FIFA knows that England and the English FA are universally despised. If it's countries being handed an easy passage you're looking for try France who benefitted from a convenient last minute rule change on the eve of the 2014 tournament because they were staring down the barrel of a group of death due to a poor qualification campaign.

    Poor Bolivia do have it tough though being stuck in CONMEBOL qualifying where a mere 50% of teams qualify (well 40% and one team gets a play off v NZ - which in footballing terms is a flyspeck on a par with Bolivia itself) compared to UEFA where less than 25% of teams get to qualify.

    And pitted against the might of Paraguay (didn't even qualify) too - they really had the odds stacked against them from the start! Handy little tip for you moving forwards - if you're trying to make a point about the strength of South American football it is usually prudent to mention Brazil at some point.
    And I didn't say they don't have a cinema.
    So why are they all standing in the town square then:
    I don't think they'd be applauding at the Odeon, no. They'd probably be standing La Paz's central square.
    Queuing for water perhaps from a pump in the middle of the square? Although no doubt you'll claim that was just despicable anti Bolivian propaganda by the West's lackey Forster and the reality in this latter day Eden all have Dom Perignon coming out of their taps?
    It's probably bigger AND better then the Odeon anyway.
    I'm sure it is son. I'm sure it is.
    Ah, that's a pity, I was actually hoping you'd defend old Blighty. I had a whole bunch of insults lined up. Oh well, I'll use them next time...

    Indeed a crying shame the world will now never get to hear your cutting Mcintyre-esque barbs about how shite the English are.
    I still think rescuing 11 million or so Bolivians is better then stopping some Americans having a drug habit or preventing Britain from a shortage of chickens, but I agree that Bond has played higher stakes. Still, that isn't the real threat and I do regret QoS wasn't more explicit in that department. It sure is too short and I think the writers' strike had something to do with that.

    Hate to shatter the illusion Forster is peddling that the Bolivian population is all going to drop dead of thirst the next day but actually Medrano signed the deal with Greene to keep the water running. Bond's intervention had no effect either way on the average peasant who would wake up the next morning to find the water was running again if Medrano's coup had succeeded or not. The only difference being the government had to shell out a load of money if Quantum succeeded. The old women in funny hats were never in danger because Medrano is shrewd enough to realise if the population has no water he would soon be lynched in La Paz town square (well with no cinema they have to make their own entertainment I suppose) so he's always going to cut a deal.

    If you think saving the Bolivian exchequer a lump of money to keep the taps on is high stakes then I'd love to see your definition of low stakes. Bond preventing the council demolishing a kid's playground to build a shopping centre?

    The plot of QOS is about Bond's personal journey and closure over Vesper and the emergence of Quantum. The fate of Bolivia's drinking water is a Mcguffin not even on a par with the Solex in terms of anyone in the audience actually giving a toss.

    Before we get chastised for derailing the thread however (perhaps you could start a 'Boliviaphiles and Anglophobes' thread?) I'd say I agree with your final sentence to be fair. Whilst I don't think it would have equalled or bettered CR, without the writer's strike the film could at least have been a very worthy followup. I certainly see it as more of a missed opportunity than an outright cock up (looking at you there SP).

    You can't tell me you were actually impressed by the qualification pool England ended up in. So I guess the hatret isn't that strong.. ;-)

    Anyway, good idea to stop here, before you actually notice the country I'm from and start laughing out loud.... It sure is a pity thy didn't manage to get the threat of Quantum across better. It is, after all, the manipulation of Britain and the US that's the real threat. They could've gotten more out of i.e. the death of the bodyguard of the special envoy to the PM. But even Bond doesn't give it much attention even though M says he shot the guy at point blank range, which he didn't. He isn't fighting the manipulation at all, even though it's M, whom we may assume he trusts by now.
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