Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 8,951
    Give him a cigar as a tribute to Roger Moore. That's beyond question.
    Or should be.
  • The next bond will pound back energy drinks, Vape chilli flake caramel flavour smoke and listen to Dead Maus EDM on his Tesla car stereo.

    He listened to DeadMau5 in Valentin Zukovsky's nightclub in the GoldenEye remake. "I Remember".
  • @thelivingroyale first off yes little kids will start smoking if their idol does so too. That's a given, the emulate behaviour of those they admire (hence why children of smokers are more likely to start smoking as well).

    Well Bond shoots an awful lot of people and given that getting hold of a gun is as easy as fags in the States where are all the kids emulating him by shooting people?
    [quote="pete
    Besides without trying to sound like a snob, smoking is now seen more as a habit of the working class.

    And swigging from a Heineken bottle is all the rage in high society these days I hear.
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Let me clarify my nasty comment ; number one: it is; number two, it’s unattractive and a filthy habit and Bond may do nasty things, but unattractive and filthy he is not.
    The great thing about a character that has existed for 50+ years in the imagination of viewers and fans is we all ascribe character traits and aspirations to him which meet our own sensibilities. Sean Connery isn't filthy and neither is George Lazenby. I don't think that when I watch their exceptional Bond films at least.

    Ultimately, this is all about box office and casting as wide a net as possible to make money. Smoking is ostracized. EON wants to appeal to women and everyone under the sun. So no more smoking will be seen.

    Let's just hope, for all our sakes, that changes in our PC driven society at large do not result in further sanitization of our favourite agent.

    The funny thing is, we're not living in the sixties anymore. Hence smoking then was considered cool (and healthy by many!!), but nowedays it's a filthy habit. People are capable of taking this into account. So if the films were period pieces, it would work, but in a modern piece it would be seen as a weakness.

    Connery was for his time a strong man, for modern times he's not that much fitter then your average joe (at least in Europe). We expect more of a fit Craig-Bond then of a fit Connery-Bond.

    Times they are a-changin' ;-)
    Precisely, which is my point. That's the reason they do it, isn't it? To fit in and make the most money possible. No point in sugar coating it.

    Quite. I'd be interested to see how far EON's morals to protect the little children would stretch if Marlboro slapped down a $20m cheque for him to spark up on screen.

    How long before alcohol goes out of fashion as being too detrimental to health and the vodka martinis and Bolly are no more and the enzyme shake becomes the norm?

    And let's not forget the nanny state's 'When the fun stops stop' campaign blitz on gambling which is another cancer in our society that Bond loves indulging in.

    We're on a slippery slope that will end up a decade from now with a totally sanitised character bearing zero resemblance to Fleming's man who is a silhouette whose job was the dirty business of spying.

    The sooner Netflix or someone is allowed to remake all the novels as period pieces and we can leave EON to chase the bland inoffensive Disneyfied mass market dollar the better.

    Personally, I believe Bond would smoke (if we're going for standard brands) Camel Turkish Royals - the classic ones in the dark blue box; not the new red boxed ones.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,989
    The next bond will pound back energy drinks, Vape chilli flake caramel flavour smoke and listen to Dead Maus EDM on his Tesla car stereo.

    He listened to DeadMau5 in Valentin Zukovsky's nightclub in the GoldenEye remake. "I Remember".

    That garbage was an actual song?!? I thought it was just a lousy background track they slapped together for the game.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Location: Hm, I wish I could write Italy or San Marino here
    Posts: 5,514
    jobo wrote: »
    So much in Bonds behavior and acting in Skyfall is so much out of character for Fleming's creation, it almost hurts.


    Like what exactly?

    I won't even dwell on that Mexican hell hole scorpion drinking game right out of an Italo Western but just about everything he does after coming to Shanghai (apart from sitting at the bar) is as out of character for a bond film as it gets.
    His almost bored look when he watches Patrice killing the guard, followed by his doing nothing to stop him from assassinating the guy in the other building. Flemings bond had a serious distain for the waste of life's and loathed killing himself. Actually James Bond is just a slight evolution from John Buchans Richard Hannay and in his heart of hearts and by Flemings intention (willingly or not )an old fashioned hero. If he had any chance whatsoever he would have stopped him from doing so ( not to mention, that this is sound intelligence practice, since the would-be victim owes you and your service Something, can provide you probably with some clothes and even today "my enemies enemy is my friend" is as valid as ever.
    Screwing without further ado a former child prostitute whom he knows to be under the control of someone so decidedly evil,watching her being killed and giving a most callous and tasteless remark tops it all though. The Bond of the novels features an extreme weakness towards the "bird with the wing down". The way he treats Tiffany in diamonds are forever gives us a clear indication how he would've behaved towards Severigne and his reaction in just about all of the novels whenever a woman gets hurt it's never in difference. As I said he is an old-fashioned hero.
    The guy from Skyfall is nothing like that.

    This is spot on. People think "if Bond doesn't crack jokes all the time and if he uses no weird gadgets he is like the Bond from the novels". Which is a bit too simple an explanation.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Does Daniel Craig smoke in real life ?
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,186
    He quit a few years ago I believe.
  • Posts: 19,339
    pachazo wrote: »
    He quit a few years ago I believe.

    Aaah ok..thanks.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,877
    Regarding smoking, it's not something I've missed, but not something I would like to see Bond continue avoiding – if for being "correct". If Columbo was remade for TV in 2017, I wouldn't take away his cigars, necessary. Then again, Columbo is always seen with his cigars, while Bond's cigarette case is not central to the character.

    But what does smoking do most of all in those films where he does smoke? It creates an artistic brake when he says his name (DN), and in other examples gives the character something to do in front of camera, other than just standing/sitting there. One would guess that this could be possible to achieve with something different than cigarettes – like him drinking for example.

    I would argue that smoking is very much an integral part of Bonds character. I have never seen his 80 a day habit as Bond trying to fit into high society, but simply Bond living his life his way. He is in a high risk job, and just trying to stay alive for the next 5 minutes, if he lived longer, that was a bonus. Drinking, smoking and his sex life were his way of letting off tension due to his job. For what it is worth, I am not a smoker myself, but I think he should start lighting up once more.

    My memory might fail me regarding this bit, but Bond doesn't light one up that often, does he? Can only remember a selected few times, really – not counting Lazenby's pipe smoking in OHMSS. His drinking is obviously more central than his smoking. Then again - as mentioned, I wouldn't take his smoking away for correctness sake. Bond is not a health freak that needs to be in peak shape at every moment. He doesn't need to be the physically strongest character at any given situation. There are plenty of examples of that. He just takes another drink and get the job done.

    Connery had already lit in in perhaps the most famous scene of the series, Lazenby lights up in the PTS of OHMSS, Moore lights up in LALD and TMWTGG (both times cigars), Dalton lights up in TLD and Brosnan llights up in DAD. I feel as if I might have missed some films out, but those are the ones that come to mind first.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 15,520
    Connery had already lit in in perhaps the most famous scene of the series, Lazenby lights up in the PTS of OHMSS, Moore lights up in LALD and TMWTGG (both times cigars), Dalton lights up in TLD and Brosnan llights up in DAD. I feel as if I might have missed some films out, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

    Over that many films, it sure isn't that often – even if a few times Bond smokes isn't mentioned here. Maybe we'll see Craig light a cigar in his last scene in Bond 25?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Regarding smoking, it's not something I've missed, but not something I would like to see Bond continue avoiding – if for being "correct". If Columbo was remade for TV in 2017, I wouldn't take away his cigars, necessary. Then again, Columbo is always seen with his cigars, while Bond's cigarette case is not central to the character.

    But what does smoking do most of all in those films where he does smoke? It creates an artistic brake when he says his name (DN), and in other examples gives the character something to do in front of camera, other than just standing/sitting there. One would guess that this could be possible to achieve with something different than cigarettes – like him drinking for example.

    I would argue that smoking is very much an integral part of Bonds character. I have never seen his 80 a day habit as Bond trying to fit into high society, but simply Bond living his life his way. He is in a high risk job, and just trying to stay alive for the next 5 minutes, if he lived longer, that was a bonus. Drinking, smoking and his sex life were his way of letting off tension due to his job. For what it is worth, I am not a smoker myself, but I think he should start lighting up once more.

    My memory might fail me regarding this bit, but Bond doesn't light one up that often, does he? Can only remember a selected few times, really – not counting Lazenby's pipe smoking in OHMSS. His drinking is obviously more central than his smoking. Then again - as mentioned, I wouldn't take his smoking away for correctness sake. Bond is not a health freak that needs to be in peak shape at every moment. He doesn't need to be the physically strongest character at any given situation. There are plenty of examples of that. He just takes another drink and get the job done.

    Connery had already lit in in perhaps the most famous scene of the series, Lazenby lights up in the PTS of OHMSS, Moore lights up in LALD and TMWTGG (both times cigars), Dalton lights up in TLD and Brosnan llights up in DAD. I feel as if I might have missed some films out, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

    FRWL with Kerim.

    Dalts also has a puff in LTK.

    Does he smoke in the dinner scene with Colonel Smithers in GF?

    Actually when you add it up he might even have a fag in as many films as he has a vodka martini which is regarded as a staple of the series?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Connery had already lit in in perhaps the most famous scene of the series, Lazenby lights up in the PTS of OHMSS, Moore lights up in LALD and TMWTGG (both times cigars), Dalton lights up in TLD and Brosnan llights up in DAD. I feel as if I might have missed some films out, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

    Over that many films, it sure isn't that often – even if a few times Bond smokes isn't mentioned here. Maybe we'll see Craig light a cigar in his last scene in Bond 25?

    I doubt it,as he has quit smoking himself and has been against it through all his tenure.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,691
    Connery smokes in YOLT with the cigarette rocket.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 19,339
    I think he lights up with Kerim Bey in his office in Istanbul too,not forgetting the GF PTS.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited October 2017 Posts: 1,984
    Interesting that Moore didn't smoke in TSWLM or MR. He was smoking his ol' cigar in on-location interviews for both.

    Sir Roger's smoking never really did anything for me, though. The most memorable moment of him with a cigar was when he combined it with his aftershave to create a makeshift flamethrower.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    In TLD Bond is pretty much assisted by the pre cursor of Al Qeada the Mujihadeen LOL
  • Posts: 15,520
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Over that many films, it sure isn't that often – even if a few times Bond smokes isn't mentioned here. Maybe we'll see Craig light a cigar in his last scene in Bond 25?

    I doubt it,as he has quit smoking himself and has been against it through all his tenure.
    Did not know Craig was a smoker in real life, or that he's been against it during his Bond tenure. Next Bond then, maybe?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Over that many films, it sure isn't that often – even if a few times Bond smokes isn't mentioned here. Maybe we'll see Craig light a cigar in his last scene in Bond 25?

    I doubt it,as he has quit smoking himself and has been against it through all his tenure.
    Did not know Craig was a smoker in real life, or that he's been against it during his Bond tenure. Next Bond then, maybe?

    Such a social irresponsible phopa now I doubt we will ever see it again. Most countries have banned it's advertising.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Location: Hm, I wish I could write Italy or San Marino here
    Posts: 5,514
    In TLD Bond is pretty much assisted by the pre cursor of Al Qeada the Mujihadeen LOL

    A bit too simplistic I'm afraid. The Mujahideen split in different fractions after the Soviets left the country and they all participated one way or another in the Afghan civil war. The eventual winners were the Taliban but they were by no means the only members of the resistance against the Soviets.

    I like to think Kamran Shah was one of the more moderate resistance fighters ;)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,119
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    In TLD Bond is pretty much assisted by the pre cursor of Al Qeada the Mujihadeen LOL

    A bit too simplistic I'm afraid. The Mujahideen split in different fractions after the Soviets left the country and they all participated one way or another in the Afghan civil war. The eventual winners were the Taliban but they were by no means the only members of the resistance against the Soviets.

    I like to think Kamran Shah was one of the more moderate resistance fighters ;)

    +1. The Mujahideen are not religious fanatics, they are freedom fighters. The Taliban are.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Kingdumb of Norway
    Posts: 41,309
    Connery also smokes in DAF, in bed with Tiffany.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Connery also smokes in DAF, in bed with Tiffany.

    I dont think he smokes,just Tiffany.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Kingdumb of Norway
    Posts: 41,309
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Connery also smokes in DAF, in bed with Tiffany.

    I dont think he smokes,just Tiffany.

    I guess you are right.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,357
    Obviously that shag wasn't good enough for old Jimmy.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Location: Hm, I wish I could write Italy or San Marino here
    Posts: 5,514
    Let's not forget Sean lighting one up in the GF pre-titles.
  • Posts: 19,339
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Let's not forget Sean lighting one up in the GF pre-titles.

    I beat you to that by about 7 hours GG .
  • The next bond will pound back energy drinks, Vape chilli flake caramel flavour smoke and listen to Dead Maus EDM on his Tesla car stereo.

    He listened to DeadMau5 in Valentin Zukovsky's nightclub in the GoldenEye remake. "I Remember".

    That garbage was an actual song?!? I thought it was just a lousy background track they slapped together for the game.

    Hahaha, yes, it's "I Remember" by DeadMau5. Activision put it into the game.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,664
    Barry Nelson smokes in CR '54.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited October 2017 Posts: 2,691
    To quote Blackadder - 'I only smoke after sex - so back in England - I'm a twenty a day man'
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited October 2017 Posts: 6,919
    @thelivingroyale first off yes little kids will start smoking if their idol does so too. That's a given, the emulate behaviour of those they admire (hence why children of smokers are more likely to start smoking as well).

    Well Bond shoots an awful lot of people and given that getting hold of a gun is as easy as fags in the States where are all the kids emulating him by shooting people?

    I think you're quite aware kids emulate with toy guns, and most of the time they understand that Bond is shooting 'bad guys', and randomly killing people is something else. But still, there's enough kids dying in the US because they were playing with the guns of their parents. So again the answer is yes, it happens. Especially in the US. The country with the most kid killing kid ration in the world.


    on the smoking, the problem is Bond should be sophisticated, which smoking isn't at all. I think Fleming only stressed the smoking because in the books he smokes his own special mix, made by the local tabacco shop (or at least an exclusive brand), with three gold bands. He stressed it because in a time when everybody smoked, Bond did the same, but with specific taste. A trait he also shows in his peculiar drinking habits (sometimes not very refined, as when he adds pepper to a very fine vodka) and his taste for special food. Even adding when it all was supposed to be nice but tasted bland and boring.

    All in all, the smoking would only be 'Bond' if he was very peculiar with it, something we don't see in the films and makes little sense these days except for cigars. I wouldn't oppose him lighting an Esplendido, but cigarettes are not Bond (anymore).



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