The Trump Era (Jan 20, 2017 – XXXX) Political Discussion Including Foreign Impacts

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  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    Do you think everyone should?
    No :)

    ====
    All newsradio is trumpeting that Trump has invited TransCanada Pipeline to reapply to build its Keystone XL pipeline.
    Deal still needs to be done, but its looking good. Trump will want the sun and the moon but we'll get it done. Maybe we can agree to plaster likenesses of Miss Universe contestants at intervals along the pipeline.
    This would provide a nice aesthetic.

    From the Canadian Press

    TransCanada Pipleine says it will reapply to build its Keystone XL project following U.S. President Donald Trump's move to help advance construction of the pipeline.
    TransCanada said in a statement Tuesday it appreciates Trump's invitation to reapply for a permit for the pipeline which would run from Canada to Nebraska where it would connect to existing lines running to U.S. refineries on the Gulf Coast.
    "We are currently preparing the application and intend to do so,.."
    "KXL creates thousands of well-paying construction jobs and would generate tens of millions of dollars in annual property taxes to counties along the route as well as more than $3 billion to the U.S. GDP."


    ===Trump has them speaking his language of course ie benefits to America.
    But that's always been apparent. Not a tough sell there for TransCanada.
    And PM says he will let TransCan work the deal, which they of course are quite able to do.
    So this gets our Alberta oil moving south as well as west. PM has been active in building pipelines westward for Alberta oil shipment to foreign markets.

    This is a big boon to the Canadian economy. Trump will make sure it works for America too, which is what we'd expect him to do.

    =="=The Calgary-based Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers welcomed Trump's order, pointing out that building Keystone XL will be an economic step forward for Canada, the U.S. and North American energy security.
    "As our largest trading partner, the relationship that Canadian producers share with the U.S. is a critical one....."
    "When given the option between granting access for Canadian oil to international markets and continuing to meet demand with Saudi Arabian, Venezuelan, Iraqi and Nigerian oil, the choice is obvious...."
    "

    ===In related news
    Miss Universe Canada Siera Bearchell Takes On Body Shamers With Self-Love
    The Huffington Post Canada

    "For the reigning Miss Universe Canada Siera Bearchell, competing on a world stage isn't just about winning a crown — it's about becoming a role model for young women who have ever questioned their self-worth.

    So after the 23-year-old from Moose Jaw, Sask., began receiving negative comments about her weight on Instagram, she not only shut down the trolls, but also taught all of us a lesson on self-love.
    "I was recently asked, 'What happened to you? Why have you gained weight? You are losing points.' This was a reference to my body of course," Bearchell, who is now in the Phillippines to compete for the title of Miss Universe 2016, wrote alongside a photo of herself.

    miss-universe-canada-011917.jpg

    Bravo! Miss Universe Canada, no skinny minny, is helping with self esteem!
    I think Canada has a chance to win this thing!!
    Looking good. New photos direct from Phillipines 6 more days!
    siera-bearchell.JPG


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    timmer wrote: »
    siera-bearchell.JPG
    Outstanding! I'm glad Ms. Bearchell is cognizant of the importance of a healthy body weight while competing for the crown. In a way Ms. Alicia Machado & President Trump's back and forth a few months back (shamefully instigated by Hillary on the debate stage) has helped to draw attention to this important matter, which is a critical requirement for winning the crown (along with hoping for world peace). I wish her the best of luck.

    Excellent earlier post on healthcare as well. I'm not that well versed with all the ins and outs of The ACA but will read up on it in time for the no doubt contentious debates that will ensue at some point this year.

    EDIT: And congratulations to Canada on Keystone. That was a long time coming! Harper huffed and puffed but couldn't sway Obama or Kerry. With firmer crude prices later this year, things are looking up.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    Ms Bearchell is an inspiration to young women the world over!
    Making Canada great! :x
    ==
    "In an interview with the BBC, the Canadian beauty queen said her decision to call out the haters was to let women know it’s OK to be comfortable with their body, something Bearchell learned the hard way."
    Edit: KXL is a boon to the Alberta economy, and a good deal for USA. In fact I think TransCan should go tough with Trump. Drive a hard bargain.
    Two can play that game!
    "You want the oil Trump? You want the jobs Trump? Whataya got?
    "Free passes to Miss Universe in Phillipines?
    "It's a start

    "Meet and greet too!! Done!"


  • Posts: 7,506
    If I didn't think this thread was a parody before...

    Simply ludicrous! 8-}
  • jobo wrote: »
    If I didn't think this thread was a parody before...

    Simply ludicrous! 8-}

    It's nice to know some things never change...
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    fresh walrus droppings. watch your step. yeccch

    6e4dabadf3fae5335736bbe875bbf3c1.jpg
    ===Meanwhile the long overdue news on Keystone is going very well in Cdn financial markets.
    While some poop,the adults are working out a deal.

    Purusing the Financial Post and Bloomberg this morning

    Trump’s Keystone XL boost sends loonie soaring against its peers
    Maciej Onoszko, Bloomberg News |

    The Canadian dollar surged after U.S. President Donald Trump moved to advance the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline, which would enable the country to ship more crude oil to the U.S. and buoy growth.
    The currency rallied as much as 1 per cent to 76.30 US cents, outperforming all of its Group-of-10 peers and extending its advance this year to 2.1 per cent. It appreciated for a second day, recovering from a two-week low reached on Friday.

    Trump’s decision to move forward with the pipeline that would transport Alberta oil sands crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast is a departure from the Obama administration, which rejected the project in 2015. It helped reignite a rally in the currency that was halted last week by comments from Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz....

    “I was surprised by the magnitude of the move,” said Jeff Greenberg, a macro strategist at UBS Securities LLC in New York. “Over the longer run, it should mean that greater volume of Canadian crude can be sent to the U.S., but the benefits for Canada in 2017 or 2018 are hard to pin down.”


    Bloomberg.com

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,119
    The thing that starts to worry me the most is the way Trump uses the media in an almost Joseph Goebbels-esqye way. I mean, so far Trump shows he's working his buts off. He's signing executive orders like his life depends on it. And we all know that many of his so called 'campaign promises' are purely populist symbolist politics. For instance, we all know that he won't create millions and millions of extra jobs. But he's a master in selling ordinary 'job transfers' as 'incredible job creations'. And I think Trump's base is eating this kind of Goebbels-propaganda like chocolate. The same with his almost authoritarian and narcissist witch hunt on the so called voter fraud. It's as if he's still campaigning against the Democrats and wants to win the popular vote during his 4-year term. And again, his base is eating this madness like chocolate.

    On the short term it probably won't do much damage. But he's doing damage to the more long-term democracy and his future successors. By raising expectations of his campaign promises, and by using the media in a Goebbels-esque way, he's factually not doing that much and actually breaks campaign promises, but it still appears that he fulfills all these campaign promises. This is exactly what Chinese and Russian leaders like Putin are doing: Slowly yet effectively destroying democracy.

    This also paves the way to an even more greedy, super-capitalist, conflict-prone, early 20th century, globalist version of mercantilism, as opposed to free trade liberalism. A society that's not build on cooperation in the interest of all people, but that's build on nationalism and support for certain people with certain passports.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The thing that starts to worry me the most is the way Trump uses the media in an almost Joseph Goebbels-esqye way. I mean, so far Trump shows he's working his buts off. He's signing executive orders like his life depends on it. And we all know that many of his so called 'campaign promises' are purely populist symbolist politics. For instance, we all know that he won't create millions and millions of extra jobs. But he's a master in selling ordinary 'job transfers' as 'incredible job creations'. And I think Trump's base is eating this kind of Goebbels-propaganda like chocolate.
    There's a lot of projection and false comparatives there as well as insulting remarks. Once again you resort to Nazi propaganda to illustrate your point. It would be amusing if it wasn't so tiresome and predictable. The Trump Administration (via its spokesman Sean Spicer) already told the press and the world that it feels it's getting unfair coverage in the media. Anyone who didn't have a political agenda and who followed the major 'rags' or did a simple 'google search' during the election (or even now for that matter) would have seen that most, if not all, of the coverage was negative. In this kind of sensationalist & hostile environment, a counter offensive is inevitable. I have already indicated in a prior post a few days back that this is how things will continue as long as the media resorts to falsehoods (your favourite Bernstein was spewing more 'foaming at the mouth' diatribe on CNN yesterday) to generate ratings.
    The same with his almost authoritarian and narcissist witch hunt on the so called voter fraud. It's as if he's still campaigning against the Democrats and wants to win the popular vote during his 4-year term. And again, his base is eating this madness like chocolate.
    Actually, it was a reporter who asked Sean Spicer directly on Tuesday why the President doesn't ask for an investigation. This was after CNN reporter Jeff Zeleny pushed it over and over again during the press conference. That was a mistake in my view, because arguably he (and his network) opened the door to an investigation with their relentless questioning. 'Careful what you wish for', as the saying goes. I don't see what the problem is. If there was no widespread voter fraud, then there's nothing to worry about. You didn't see anybody on this thread complaining about Hillary's investigation into voter machines in November (despite her protestations during the campaign that the election results could not be questioned) and you won't see anyone protesting now. Let there be an investigation, and let the chips fall where they may.
    Zeleny was the fourth of six reporters to ask Spicer on Tuesday about Trump's comment at the Monday evening reception.

    "You said the president believes that there was voter fraud. I wonder if you believe that? You were at the Republican National Committee at the time and Chief of Staff Reince Priebus was the chairman of the RNC the time. Do you believe there was widespread voter fraud?" Zeleny asked Spicer.

    "Listen, my job is not--" Spicer began. But Zeleny wasn't finished:

    "And do you -- how could he be comfortable with his win if he believes...there were three million votes? Maybe he didn't win," Zeleny said.

    Spicer said Trump is "very comfortable with his win."

    "It's an electoral-based system," Spicer said. "He got 306 electoral votes, 33 of 50 states voted for him. I think -- look, Jeff, I've asked and answered this question twice. He believes what he believes based on the information that he's provided."

    Spicer then turned to another reporter, but Zeleny continued: "What does that mean for democracy, though, Sean? What does that mean--"

    "Thanks, Jeff," Spicer said.

    Zeleny again: "If he does believe that, what does that mean for democracy?"

    "It means that I've answered your question,"
    Spicer said, turning away.

    "Have you?" Zeleny shot back.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/cnn-reporter-trump-maybe-he-didnt-win
    This also paves the way to an even more greedy, super-capitalist, conflict-prone, early 20th century, globalist version of mercantilism, as opposed to free trade liberalism. A society that's not build on cooperation in the interest of all people, but that's build on nationalism and support for certain people with certain passports.
    Yes, as I said in my response to your previous post, the Trump Administration is indeed pursuing a 'soft' Neo-mercantilism. This is an essential tenet of the new Administration's political & economic philosophy, and as I articulated in an earlier post, is designed to manage America's relative decline in the world. You won't find a clear description of their approach in a textbook, because it will be something new, drawing on tenets from existing economic theory and designed to address the 21st century's problem. However, it certainly has mercantile elements. The Bush interventionist approach was catastrophic, and the Obama liberalism has also been ineffective. Both have arguably ceded leadership too quickly and haphazardly. The Trump approach is designed to strategically leverage trading opportunities more effectively and counter the Chinese competitive threat. As I've said before, both China and Europe (read Germany) collectively have been pursuing a mercantilist agenda, as has most of Asia for decades. That is precisely why they have grown & generated trade surpluses. The US, as sole hegemon for 25 years, has tolerated, encouraged and bankrolled this growth, as consumer of choice.

    Now we are at a turning point, since China will soon take over as #1 economy. The old world order is about to change, whether we like it or not. The previous Western alliance anchored by Pax-Americana is untenable. What we will inevitably see going forward is a world with far more regional conflicts, and with several major trading hubs. Think of an 'Airport Hub and Spoke' design. There will be Latin America, NAFTA (or US/Canada only without Mexico), US/UK, US/UK/Europe (or US/UK and the individual countries of Europe should the EU disintegrate) etc. etc. etc.

    This sort of sea change occurs whenever one superpower relinquishes leadership to another. It happens every now and then. The transition can either be peaceful or violent. So far it has been relatively peaceful globally (despite a large increase in regional conflicts everywhere), but has also had terrible consequences for many people within the US. If things continue in the same manner, the US would descend into further chaos, inner city violence and incohesion. The Trump approach is designed to strengthen America from within so that it can be competitive in a world which will increasingly be dominated by China, India and others. The US will need a robust modern manufacturing base to compete as a 'spoke' into the Asian (and possibly European) 'hub' consumer market (s). Some philosophers and thinkers (most notably Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his book Antifragile) have in effect advocated this approach.

    Still, I believe we will have significant tension with China while this strategic approach plays out. It will be up to China (as the fastest growing beneficiary of the current world order) and the US (as current leader ceding relative control) to ensure that things don't get out of hand as the adjustments take place. Russia, India, UK, EU etc. will all be valuable influencers in this grand game of chess that will play out on the world stage over the next 4-8 years.
  • As an American who has voted in every national election since 1980, I've seen a lot on the political scene in the past four decades. (FYI: Have voted for both Democratic and Republican candidates.)

    I am deeply ashamed -- and profoundly disgusted -- that this unstable, incoherent, carnival barking con-man was elected president.

    To quote a French officer in 1812, addressing his men as the snow began to fall during the retreat from Moscow: "Gentlemen, we are ****ed."

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,601
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    To quote a French officer in 1812, addressing his men as the snow began to fall during the retreat from Moscow: "Gentlemen, we are ****ed."

    Spot on, I love it!
  • Posts: 7,506
    Oh please! @-)

    Trump's campaign was built on hatred, fear mongering, sensationalism, bigotry, racism, sexism, cheap insults, obvious blatant lies, ridiculous promises he obviously will not keep, nonsensical statements, childish rhetoric... and yet it is somehow the press' fault that the coverage ended up being negative? If anything the media gave him an easy ride, not really investigating his financial history or delving into the full absurdity of some of his statements!

    Now he is continuing on the same path of lies and aggressive attacks, and still you try to present him as a victim in all of this? Cut the crap, @bondjames! It is obvious to all of us that you are not the rational observer you pretend to be, but rather a fanatic apologist willing to swallow whatever crap your cult leader is serving you. You might still be able to fool yorself and your fellow cult members. All rational people, however, gave up on you long ago.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Interesting blabbing from the previous poster. Many are accusing the Trump Administration of following through on its campaign promises (that's actually the complaint) and this one comes on here and says the opposite, & throws around cheap insults at other users (whatever gets his rocks off).

    He is a a perfect example of what is wrong with the world today. He's been spewing this vile invective relentlessly for a while too. A disgrace.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 618
    jobo wrote: »

    Now he is continuing on the same path of lies and aggressive attacks, and still you try to present him as a victim in all of this? Cut the crap, @bondjames! It is obvious to all of us that you are not the rational observer you pretend to be, but rather a fanatic apologist willing to swallow whatever crap your cult leader is serving you. You might still be able to fool yorself and your fellow cult members. All rational people, however, gave up on you long ago.

    Well, no, it's not obvious to all of us. You're welcome to fire off the usual laundry list of tired complaints and personal insults, and you're welcome to behave like a roaring sphincter when someone presents an opposing viewpoint. But don't ever speak for me.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    bondjames wrote: »
    Interesting blabbing from the previous poster. Many are accusing the Trump Administration of following through on its campaign promises (that's actually the complaint) and this one comes on here and says the opposite, & throws around cheap insults at other users (whatever gets his rocks off).

    He is a a perfect example of what is wrong with the world today. He's been spewing this vile invective relentlessly for a while too. A disgrace.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »

    Now he is continuing on the same path of lies and aggressive attacks, and still you try to present him as a victim in all of this? Cut the crap, @bondjames! It is obvious to all of us that you are not the rational observer you pretend to be, but rather a fanatic apologist willing to swallow whatever crap your cult leader is serving you. You might still be able to fool yorself and your fellow cult members. All rational people, however, gave up on you long ago.

    Well, no, it's not obvious to all of us. You're welcome to fire off the usual laundry list of tired complaints and personal insults, and you're welcome to behave like a roaring sphincter when someone presents an opposing viewpoint. But don't ever speak for me.

    Yes, the blathering from the foaming left is irrational.
    Also revealing. As with Meryl Streep's manic utterings, we are constantly reminded why so many rejected HRC.
    I don't even think voters were so outraged with her. The obnoxiousness of her supporters was probably the real deal-breaker.
    What foaming lefty types don't seem to get, is that when they go off at social gatherings, or worse in the workplace, the silence they get or even faux agreement, is often just the attempts of normal people trying to weather them.

    Newflash: a simple web search will find all sorts of sensational cartoons and wild ramblings regarding Obama, and the dire straits both the country and the world would find itself it in, under his reign.
    I dreaded what he might do as much as anyone, but at no time did I lose my poop, and go off on invective filled drama binges.
    But, I got real bored of him after about a year.
    Some of it was funny I must admit, as is some of the Trump parody stuff, but here we are 8 years later. Imagine that.
    But now we have a new administration, and guess what, in 8 years there will be another one, probably Democrat, if patterns holds.
    Governments of any stripe tend to wear out their welcome after a while.

    But what is disturbing, (but also falling into "the bedwetters/who cares category) is that certain quarters on the frothing left, can't abide that others don't share their almost pathological hysteria.
    They can't just abide that everyone won't drink the same koolaid.
    The perfidy, that people dared voted Trump and dare expect him to address the issues that he actually campaigned on.
    Trump is the worst thing ever!!!, but guess what so was W, and before him Bush, and Reagan. Thatcher-OMG, yikes! and Barry Goldwater from the '60s.
    There's a rather obvious pattern here. The sky falls like clockwork, whenever the electorate, God forbid, exercises its free and democratic right, to not support their boy (girl). Sigh.

    As an aside, there is a bedwetting thread elsewhere and I mean that in the nicest, gentlest, most empathetic caring way.
    The big bad @bondjames ;) makes point of not participating. Very civil on his part. Disciplined even maybe, although I don't think it takes much, really, if one hasn't come unglued.
    Much hysteria, but some are civil. Good on them.

    Personally, I find Trump's greatest legacy, the annual Miss Universe contest, to be of greater interest in the short-term, than his first days in office.
    KXL, I was counting on being addressed quickly ,which the new admin did, otherwise I fully expect President to plough ahead with his platform, none of which causes me to hyperventilate or foam.
    Just 4 more days though, till Pia passes on the crown.

    ==But back to the sordid subject matter.
    As an aside, go to any leftist type powwow, and you will see the very brazen attempts to formulate correct thinking on whatever is being discussed.
    Conformity and correct thinking is paramount.
    One of the craziest thing I ever saw, was during the 2010, G20 summit in Toronto, attended by Obama and other world leaders btw, was the sight of the leftist protesters who were rioting and doing the usual black bloc smashing and breaking.
    The leftist mobs essentially provide cover for the black bloc criminals who emerge from the midst.
    One of the local tv stations was live-streaming on the web, so you could watch the "protesters" on their march of destruction.

    The mob, had reached one of the city's most famous (infamous?) downtown strip joints and had proceeded to smash the windows, as they are wont to do.
    However, there was suddenly confusion in the ranks. Within a matter of minutes, a new chant had emerged - "sex work is work" and off they went, the stripjoint spared (oi vey) to continue smashing and breaking. Starbucks windows being a favourite target.
    The correct thinking had been established.
    Meanwhile the soup kitchen that I worked at for 8 years worth of Sat mornings, during the winter months, had all its desserts supplied free by two local Starbucks-the stuff they didn't sell that day.
    All done under the radar,,,,,, but do smash their windows.
    God forbid Starbucks make a profit and employ people, and as a successful business enterprise help drive the broader economy, via suppliers and connected enterprise.

    ==A post election reality check: Obama resorted to phony green posturing to stonewall the KXL pipeline.
    Hillary though, probably would have approved the thing after appropriate posturing, because she is not anti oil ie anti that-which-drives-the-global-economy.
    Trump though stands on no such ceremony, nor would have Romney or McCain. They are not beholden to the same constituencies, so now things are getting done.
    Trump is probably going to be harder to deal with for TransCanada Pipeline, than Romney or HIllary would have been, but such is life. Who cares.

    I'm sorry, but both Canada and the USA, are full of good folk, who are interested to see what progress might be made on some of the issues raised in the election.
    The Democratic Party offerings, or non-offerings, were rejected for this election cycle. Democracy.

    Illegal immigration. Hmm. I don't know if a wall is the best or even most practical solution.
    It might be, but I am not sure, but I do know illegal immigration is something that any sovereign nation needs to deal with.
    Illegal immigration is not a good thing, and that is the issue, not the wall, but rather the problem that the wall is trying to address.
    Clearly though, even a "wall" will allow for legal immigration and visits, but to the fanatics anything short of open borders seems to be racist. Sigh.
    The wall could have openings and check points and stuff.

    Meanwhile, we effectively have a wall on the northern border with Canada.
    I'm not aware of any place where I can just sneak across
    There does seem to be a "wall", but then Canada isn't populated by masses trying to flee the country.
    Lets just say Mexico has issues, which cause its people to want to flee. Cuba too.
    America has to deal with this. Its a matter of sovereignty.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    Meanwhile Miss Universe Mexico has arrived in Phillipines. 4 more days
    maxresdefault.jpg

    Enough.
    I'm going to read more of @obradys epic DAF movie treatise.
    And guess what, I don't believe @obrady is a Trump fan, but who cares.
    Will take me thru the weekend to digest. But worth the read.
    One should not over-froth political wrangling.
    Even Obama or HRC speeching :P
    Obama takes golf breaks. Lots of them, and power to him. Its a great game.
    Take up some golf. Unwind. Sean loves golf
    Trump runs golf courses.
    Tiger is back in play this weekened too at Torrey Pines. So much going on!

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 3,564
    Oh timbo...

    It seems to me you could use a fresh perspective on all things walrus. Therefore, from the noted classic of children's literature, Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There, by Lewis Carroll:

    The Walrus and the Carpenter

    The sun was shining on the sea,
    Shining with all his might:
    He did his very best to make
    The billows smooth and bright--
    And this was odd, because it was
    The middle of the night.

    The moon was shining sulkily,
    Because she thought the sun
    Had got no business to be there
    After the day was done--
    "It's very rude of him," she said,
    "To come and spoil the fun!"


    The sea was wet as wet could be,
    The sands were dry as dry.
    You could not see a cloud, because
    No cloud was in the sky:
    No birds were flying overhead--
    There were no birds to fly.

    The Walrus and the Carpenter
    Were walking close at hand;
    They wept like anything to see
    Such quantities of sand:
    "If this were only cleared away,"
    They said, "it would be grand!"

    "If seven maids with seven mops
    Swept it for half a year.
    Do you suppose," the Walrus said,
    "That they could get it clear?"
    "I doubt it," said the Carpenter,
    And shed a bitter tear.

    "O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
    The Walrus did beseech.
    "A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
    Along the briny beach:
    We cannot do with more than four,
    To give a hand to each."

    The eldest Oyster looked at him,
    But never a word he said:
    The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
    And shook his heavy head--
    Meaning to say he did not choose
    To leave the oyster-bed.

    But four young Oysters hurried up,
    All eager for the treat:
    Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
    Their shoes were clean and neat--
    And this was odd, because, you know,
    They hadn't any feet.

    Four other Oysters followed them,
    And yet another four;
    And thick and fast they came at last,
    And more, and more, and more--
    All hopping through the frothy waves,
    And scrambling to the shore.


    The Walrus and the Carpenter
    Walked on a mile or so,
    And then they rested on a rock
    Conveniently low:
    And all the little Oysters stood
    And waited in a row.

    "The time has come," the Walrus said,
    "To talk of many things:
    Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
    Of cabbages--and kings--
    And why the sea is boiling hot--
    And whether pigs have wings."

    "But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
    "Before we have our chat;
    For some of us are out of breath,
    And all of us are fat!"
    "No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
    They thanked him much for that.

    "A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
    "Is what we chiefly need:
    Pepper and vinegar besides
    Are very good indeed--
    Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
    We can begin to feed."

    "But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
    Turning a little blue.
    "After such kindness, that would be
    A dismal thing to do!"
    "The night is fine," the Walrus said.
    "Do you admire the view?


    "It was so kind of you to come!
    And you are very nice!"
    The Carpenter said nothing but
    "Cut us another slice:
    I wish you were not quite so deaf--
    I've had to ask you twice!"

    "It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
    "To play them such a trick,
    After we've brought them out so far,
    And made them trot so quick!"
    The Carpenter said nothing but
    "The butter's spread too thick!"

    "I weep for you," the Walrus said:
    "I deeply sympathize."
    With sobs and tears he sorted out
    Those of the largest size,
    Holding his pocket-handkerchief
    Before his streaming eyes.

    "O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
    "You've had a pleasant run!
    Shall we be trotting home again?'
    But answer came there none--
    And this was scarcely odd, because
    They'd eaten every one.


    Although this is indeed a classic of children's literature, there is a substantial sociopolitical message to be found here. If you care to expound upon it, please do so. Otherwise, one would surmise that you really don't know your walruses from your carpenters...
  • Posts: 4,622
    More walrus droppings. Yecch Watch your step.
    ===
    @blowhole You really are a lesson in soreloserville pathology.
    ===btw there is another thread. You can sing and be an all around dick over there
    and no-one will say boo.

    ===I am really sorry all your condescending bully tactics on the old thread didn't net the results you were demanding. Terribly humbling I know
    I know its tough. You are going thru a tough time.
    Maybe professional help.Maybe Meryl Streep might commiserate.

    Good luck with ditch digging!
  • "And this was scarcely odd, because
    They'd eaten every one."

    Watch your appetite, timbo. It'll be the death of you....
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    timmer wrote: »
    btw there is another thread. You can sing and be an all around dick over there and no-one will say boo.

    Now now, that's dividing when we should be uniting.

  • Posts: 4,622
    Actually dividing works just fine sometimes. Just sayin ~O)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,335
    That depends on your endgame. Right now we're stronger together than apart.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,622
    @murdock you are earnest young man. Thus I shall peaceably defer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @Escalus5, @timmer, thanks for your support as always.

    Yes, it really is surprising and disappointing to read about all these ongoing protests involving vandalism and what not. What is the point of that? Such self-defeating exercises will only result in more stringent police enforcement, which is the very thing some of those on 'the left' don't want. Very strange logic indeed. I watched some of the nonsense that took place in D.C. on Inauguration Day and was quite disappointed. As you say, resorting to hurting & disrupting businesses (many of which are franchisee operated) to make a political point is truly idiotic.

    Anyway, this election & its aftermath has made me realize that the nutters on 'the left' are just as bad as those on 'the right'. In the past I never understood what 'the right' was going on about (in terms of media unfairness and so on and so forth) but now I get it. As an example, back during the Bush era, when Karl Rove was euphemistically known as 'Bush's brain', some of the tv coverage made me think he was devil incarnate. Since then, I've seen him on tv from time to time, & he seems like a perfectly reasonable & bright chap.

    With such combative rhetoric & polarization (combined with illogical & irrational coverage) I honestly don't see how divisions can be healed.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    bondjames wrote: »
    Anyway, this election & its aftermath has made me realize that the nutters on 'the left' are just as bad as those on 'the right'.
    I appreciate this olive branch.
    =D>
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Escalus5, @timmer, thanks for your support as always.

    Yes, it really is surprising and disappointing to read about all these ongoing protests involving vandalism and what not. What is the point of that? Such self-defeating exercises will only result in more stringent police enforcement, which is the very thing some of those on 'the left' don't want. Very strange logic indeed. I watched some of the nonsense that took place in D.C. on Inauguration Day and was quite disappointed. As you say, resorting to hurting & disrupting businesses (many of which are franchisee operated) to make a political point is truly idiotic.

    Anyway, this election & its aftermath has made me realize that the nutters on 'the left' are just as bad as those on 'the right'. In the past I never understood what 'the right' was going on about (in terms of media unfairness and so on and so forth) but now I get it. As an example, back during the Bush era, when Karl Rove was euphemistically known as 'Bush's brain', some of the tv coverage made me think he was devil incarnate. Since then, I've seen him on tv from time to time, & he seems like a perfectly reasonable & bright chap.

    With such combative rhetoric & polarization (combined with illogical & irrational coverage) I honestly don't see how divisions can be healed.

    I think you make one big mistake here though. Asking yourself who facilitated all that polarization back in 2016.

    Not once, not ONCE on here you have been questioning at least one tiny 'thing' that doesn't fall very well with the Trump presidency.

    And although I condemn every bit of violence -I saw it here in Barcelona too, ultra-left wing protesters destroying branches and ATM's of banks-. But when it's about Trump, you're always looking at the deeper consequences, the historical perspective and nuanced causes why Trump 'happened'.

    But once it's about some violent protests from 'the left', in which you are ignoring the huge peaceful Women's March, all those nuances and historical perspectives are gone and you start fingerpointing. Suddenly it's all about 'the left' and 'the right' and a load of simplistic alt-right innuendo.

    That's when you show color in here. That's all about calling the kettle black, because then you become a big facilitator of polarization and division yourself. And STILL you don't have the guts to admit that in 2016 Trump was perhaps the biggest facilitator of division and polarization.

    Trump isn't nuts. Trump is damn smart....at least media-wise. But the polarization this narcissist brings to the US society is entirely facilitated by Trump right now. He's the president. He could have been the 'unifier in chief', but he doesn't give a rat's ass about that. Not saying that the polarization in US society has more profound and deeper causes. But if you keep being 'mild' on Trump, in which I barely read criticism from your side to his style of 'governing', and if, at the same time, you blast the people on the other aisle with no nuance at all.....you start loosing my respect.

    Lastly, can you please tell me what's so wonderful about creating diplomatic wars like these? http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/26/mexican_president_pena_nieto_is_finally_done_trying_to_reason_with_trump.html
    I don't know if you know about the current relationship between Turkey (a big transit country of immigrants) and the EU. But it seems Trump starts cornering Mexico in such a way, that President Enrique Peña Nieto could easily become the next 'Erdogan' of the Americas. Make no mistakle, Mexico is a transit country like Turkey. If Trump really wants to tackle a so called 'immigrant crisis' he's pointing at, he needs to cooperate with Nieto, not cornering the man.

    Alas, all I say on this glorified Miss Universe pageant page will fall on deaf ears @BondJames. And don't start the same old "If you read carefully in the past, you could have read I was critical about Trump"-shit again. Criticise WHILE I discuss with you, and don't start referring cheaply to past stuff.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    You're being very presumptuous and self serving in blaming the polarization on President Trump. If you'll forgive me, it fits in with your well known political views. You have referred to him above as a narcissist. There is an entire thread devoted 100% to bashing everything that the President does or stands for, unless things have changed. What nuance is there when twitter posts by people with obvious agendas are used as the standard by which people are judged?

    Did I ignore the women's march? Not at all. I mentioned it. I'll admit, being a man, that it's not an issue I'm all that knowledgeable about. I don't believe the President has enacted any policies that hurt women (yet). This is quite different from civil rights marches, where there were grounds for protests based on policies that were put in place, or Vietnam protests. What is the purpose of protesting a man who has just been sworn in? To scare him? To humiliate him? What message does that send to America's enemies, when the leader of the free world is humiliated on day one? All that protest did was mobilize those with a different political agenda. If this is what I'm supposed to be supporting, perhaps you and I have a different view on things (particularly since it was done the day after he took the oath of office). Is Madonna sending a message to ISIL/ISIS/Daesh?:





    I'm afraid you are living in a dreamworld if you think that the media will let President Trump be a unifier. That is hallowed ground worthy only for Democrats, based on my review of the coverage to date. It is the Republican ideas that they object to, because the coverage turned fearfully 'nasty' as soon as he received the nomination. Since he is a sometime Democrat/sometime Republican, and because the Hillary campaign didn't know how to fight him (since he's all over the map politically), they went after him personally and made him into a demon. I don't agree with that approach. There is a large portion of the country with Republican and conservative ideals. Those views should not be denigrated or frowned upon.

    As an example, I mentioned on the old thread that was closed down that I have supported both Republican and Democrat candidates in the past. I also mentioned that I don't agree with abortions, except in cases of rape. I'm not against it on the basis of a 'women's right to choose' (before someone draws that simplistic conclusion), but on the basis that I believe life begins in the womb. I understand that there is a point of view that a woman should be given a right to choose. In my humble personal view, granting the right to abortions is tantamount to giving a woman the right to choose to kill, since I believe life begins in the womb. I am not in favour of changing the law however, since it has been litigated, but I also certainly think that it is something whose number must be reduced & culturally must not be encouraged.

    He has been in office for less than a week. You want me to criticize his governing style? Do we even really know what it is yet? Interesting perspective, from one who is apparently clamouring for nuance. One who has previously called the President a 'bully' and who 'projected' last week in a manner that could lead someone to conclude that the President himself might have personally caused your childhood grief.

    Regarding Mexico: Both President Trump and President Pena Nieto spoke before they called off the meeting. The Mexican President is in serious trouble at home (12% approval ratings or something like that). So this could all be political theatre (who knows?). We may yet see a reconciliation and a meeting of the minds, which may come about down the road at a more appropriate juncture, after all the trade representatives and other cabinet appointments (like Secretary of State) have been confirmed. Something which may actually boost Mr. Pena Nieto's ratings at home.

    You and I are never going to agree politically. I appear to be 100% on the other side of many issues with you, including the EU, Trump, even SP. That's fine. As long as we can politely disagree, I don't have a problem with it. I have nothing against you personally.

    My apparent 'lack of nuance' on President Trump is because I have a thread here which attempts to give another side to his presidency. A presidency that is being lambasted constantly elsewhere (including on this forum). I tolerated and participated in the old thread to provide a counter-view (one of the few, with timmer, jetsetwilly, superintendent, germanlady, mendes4lyfe, panchitopistoles and others - all of whom took great abuse for our views). Once that thread was arbitrarily closed and the bitching thread opened (before the man was even sworn in and right after an election, no less), I felt that there was a need for a counter-view thread.

    I'm happy to stand down if the other side does. I can assure you, they won't.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Like Bannon so kindly put "the media should their mouths" because they are not telling the truth.

    That would be the truth this government would not like to see or the truth as they would like to see it?

    Not sure how censorship would work, but I feel it looking closer and closer each day.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Like Bannon so kindly put "the media should their mouths" because they are not telling the truth.

    That would be the truth this government would not like to see or the truth as they would like to see it?

    Not sure how censorship would work, but I feel it looking closer and closer each day.
    Censorship is not the answer in a democracy of course. Bannon's comments were inappropriate. Having said that, I am one who believes good journalism is, for the most part, dead. This is due to concentrated media ownership and partisan agendas.

    The right approach is what Spicer articulated on Monday at the press conference in my view. Both sides must hold the other side accountable for the facts. The trick is to realize that neither side is always right or wrong. They will both make mistakes. Acknowledging and self-correcting that properly when it occurs is the trick, and in a non combative manner.
  • Posts: 7,653
    bondjames wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Like Bannon so kindly put "the media should their mouths" because they are not telling the truth.

    That would be the truth this government would not like to see or the truth as they would like to see it?

    Not sure how censorship would work, but I feel it looking closer and closer each day.
    Censorship is not the answer in a democracy of course. Bannon's comments were inappropriate. Having said that, I am one who believes good journalism is, for the most part, dead. This is due to concentrated media ownership and partisan agendas.

    The right approach is what Spicer articulated on Monday at the press conference in my view. Both sides must hold the other side accountable for the facts. The trick is to realize that neither side is always right or wrong. They will both make mistakes. Acknowledging and self-correcting that properly when it occurs is the trick, and in a non combative manner.

    For most part I can agree with you were it not for POTUS having regular TWITTER diarrhea and changing any perception of truth, common sense and presidential behaviour. He is an incredible oaf.

  • Posts: 11,119
    SaintMark wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Like Bannon so kindly put "the media should their mouths" because they are not telling the truth.

    That would be the truth this government would not like to see or the truth as they would like to see it?

    Not sure how censorship would work, but I feel it looking closer and closer each day.
    Censorship is not the answer in a democracy of course. Bannon's comments were inappropriate. Having said that, I am one who believes good journalism is, for the most part, dead. This is due to concentrated media ownership and partisan agendas.

    The right approach is what Spicer articulated on Monday at the press conference in my view. Both sides must hold the other side accountable for the facts. The trick is to realize that neither side is always right or wrong. They will both make mistakes. Acknowledging and self-correcting that properly when it occurs is the trick, and in a non combative manner.

    For most part I can agree with you were it not for POTUS having regular TWITTER diarrhea and changing any perception of truth, common sense and presidential behaviour. He is an incredible oaf.

    =D>
This discussion has been closed.