Deadly attacks in Paris / Brussels / Nice (07/14/2016)

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Comments

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    As long as this chap eats bacon, he's ok with me.
  • Posts: 233

    He doesn't. I don't think he's ever been into a mosque in his life, and he eats more bacon than I do.

    He eats bacon yet he is a Muslim? Isn't he going to burn in hell for that? Given his attitude to pork and going to the mosque why does he still identify himself as a Muslim then? Does he feel the need to do it for his parents? Obviously I can't guess at the guy's motives but you can't say 'oh I'm enlightened because I don't believe in all that guff about not eating bacon and stoning women but I still believe in the rest.' There aren't grades of belief. It's binary either you believe or you don't. Once you've crossed that line and made the leap of faith to reject logic, reason and science you are, to quote @RC7's succinct phrase, a 'fucking joke'. We need stop being so scared to say that. It will take generations of course and won't happen in our lifetime as Islam lags far behind moribund Christianity in dying out in this country but it would be nice to think in another 100 years or so that the UK might be religion free. If people want to live like the Middle Ages then you are still welcome in this country as long as you do it in the privacy of your own home.

    It's more common than you might think, the same way you get gay Christians despite everything the bible says. For a lot of people, religion is an identity; it's the community they were raised within and a basic code of ethics, nothing more. There's no pressure from his parents, his mother is Catholic, it's just how he sees himself.

    I also long for a world free of religion. But there's a difference between criticising Islamic teachings and enciting hatred. Muslims are often wonderful people who contribute a great deal to our society, and I'm simply saying that people shouldn't be abused, prejudged, or lectured because of their identity. Arguing that they "aren't a race" is utterly meaningless semantics, although I'm not saying that you did that Wiz.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    But if we all think you're a Bellend, then that must be true. :)) so why should we
    pay any attention to a Bellend ? You support lone killers, probably get off on it. :D
    Probably spend too much time in your Mum's basement, trolling, to actually develop
    any human emotions like empathy. Hence why you can connect so easily to sad,
    inadequate loners, angry at society.

    My Mum has alzheimers; But she would give You a Whack for Your comment..!

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/spy-agencies-struggle-to-spot-threats-from-lone-mentally-ill-attackers/ar-BBuIXWt?li=BBnb7Kz

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/munich-shooting-loner-facebook-ali-sonboly-bullied-killer

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/its-disturbing-author-of-book-found-in-munich-shooters-home-sees-pattern/ar-BBuJvVd?li=BBnb7Kz
  • Posts: 15,034
    The thing is, whether it is a gay Christian or a Muslim eating bacon, what's to say that his rather liberal and cherry picking interpretation of his faith is the right one? The moderates of any faith are generally more accommodating than the radicals, yet they are just like the radicals unjustified in their beliefs and their moderation does not exonerate their faith from criticism. In fact, their own rejection of the more difficult and more destructive aspects of their beliefs is a disavow of the value of their belief. If you cannot follow the rules of your faith, why make it your faith? "Oh I believe in Jesus and the Holy Catholic Church, but yeah, sex before marriage is pretty stupid, but surely, that is not what Jesus said." "There is only one god but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet, but it's okay to drink alcohol and eat pork. But not to mock the Prophet, that is not cool."
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The thing is, whether it is a gay Christian or a Muslim eating bacon, what's to say that his rather liberal and cherry picking interpretation of his faith is the right one? The moderates of any faith are generally more accommodating than the radicals, yet they are just like the radicals unjustified in their beliefs and their moderation does not exonerate their faith from criticism. In fact, their own rejection of the more difficult and more destructive aspects of their beliefs is a disavow of the value of their belief. If you cannot follow the rules of your faith, why make it your faith? "Oh I believe in Jesus and the Holy Catholic Church, but yeah, sex before marriage is pretty stupid, but surely, that is not what Jesus said." "There is only one god but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet, but it's okay to drink alcohol and eat pork. But not to mock the Prophet, that is not cool."

    What makes Ludovico think, that the muslims society in its beliefs are unjustified?-They can be more Human than Yourself because they fear God in a way You Never WILL do.

    The Sloppiness of todays western society turns the stommacs of Rightful and justified Muslims wherever they live-but they are forced by supply reasons to consummate their lives in a way that their beliefs does not RECCOMEND..!

    This is eating them, and if You were in their position it WILL eat You too..!

    Your ignorance is not better than theirs.(Generally Speaking).
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 15,034
    @MyNameisMyBond The burden of proof resides in the person making the positive claim, in this instance the existence of God and this particular god (who revealed himself to Mohammed, ordered the whole humanity to follow a particular set of rules, etc.). Until they show a modicum of evidence for god, then yes their belief is completely unjustified. They can believe all they want, but cannot expect non believers to live by the rules of this hypothetical god. Muslims are not alone: Christians' belief is unjustified, Buddhists' belief is unjustified, etc.

    And even IF there was a god and it happened to be the Muslim god, worshiping him or obeying him would be entirely up to them, not me or anyone else. And I would add that their god is a rather unpleasant a petty ruler who does not deserve to be worshiped or obeyed.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    One question. Are or are we not at war with Islamic extremism? That well worn phrase 'the war on terror' seems to have fallen from general use by our leaders.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    stag wrote: »
    One question. Are or are we not at war with Islamic extremism? That well worn phrase 'the war on terror' seems to have fallen from general use by our leaders.
    Someone needs to ask Obama and Clinton. They seem to have a hard time calling it what it is.
  • Posts: 233
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The thing is, whether it is a gay Christian or a Muslim eating bacon, what's to say that his rather liberal and cherry picking interpretation of his faith is the right one? The moderates of any faith are generally more accommodating than the radicals, yet they are just like the radicals unjustified in their beliefs and their moderation does not exonerate their faith from criticism. In fact, their own rejection of the more difficult and more destructive aspects of their beliefs is a disavow of the value of their belief. If you cannot follow the rules of your faith, why make it your faith? "Oh I believe in Jesus and the Holy Catholic Church, but yeah, sex before marriage is pretty stupid, but surely, that is not what Jesus said." "There is only one god but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet, but it's okay to drink alcohol and eat pork. But not to mock the Prophet, that is not cool."

    Most moderate religious people I've met seem to identify with the Muslim or Christian God, but usually accept that their holy books were written by men as a basic moral guide for uneducated sand dwellers two thousand years ago. I suppose you could say that they subscribe to an "inner truth", rather than following it all word for word.

    I think it's all as mad as you do, but I'm concerned about a growing attitude that says Muslims should be punished or be apologising for the actions of terrorists.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Folks, this thing about @TheWizardOfIce being Erica Ambler has to stop. It's a pointless accusation that cannot in any shape or form contribute to our discussions. We value @TheWizardOfIce's opinions, posts and humour as we do the opinions, posts and humour of most other members, the exceptions being trolls, spammers and ill-tempered whiners whom, of course, can barely be called members in the first place. Even IF the Wiz were Erica, it's been so many years since Ambler and this forum went a different way and the Wiz, despite having strong opinions, has been as much a part of this forum as I have. Besides, I'm clearly the new Odin and yet I don't see any of you worship at my altar or bring me sacrifices. So let's drop the bickering, shall we. If the Wiz steps over the line, we'll douse his account in gasoline and set it on fire as all self-proclaimed peaceful people in this world tend to do with those who don't play by their rules. If the Wis DOES turn out to be Ambler, I'll donate my allowance to charity and not buy Fabergé eggs this time. But until then, we should resume our old ways and discontinue this name-calling for which empirical evidence is missing anyway. I may be wrong, but that's besides the point. I liked this forum better before we started having these PUBLIC disagreements about who's behind the avatar, and that's all that matters! And if the Wiz says he's not Ambler, then I for one believe him.

    What a bold post.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @MyNameisMyBond The burden of proof resides in the person making the positive claim, in this instance the existence of God and this particular god (who revealed himself to Mohammed, ordered the whole humanity to follow a particular set of rules, etc.). Until they show a modicum of evidence for god, then yes their belief is completely unjustified. They can believe all they want, but cannot expect non believers to live by the rules of this hypothetical god. Muslims are not alone: Christians' belief is unjustified, Buddhists' belief is unjustified, etc.

    And even IF there was a god and it happened to be the Muslim god, worshiping him or obeying him would be entirely up to them, not me or anyone else. And I would add that their god is a rather unpleasant a petty ruler who does not deserve to be worshiped or obeyed.

    -"The Burdon of Proof" is; Nobody on this earth have any concluding last EVIDENCE of Gods EXISTENCE; Likewise NOBODY are able to leave any concluding last EVIDENCE of God's UN-EXISTENCE..! (that is the matter of fact as we know it.).
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Nonexistence is the accepted term.
  • Posts: 15,034
    Like I said, it is not up to me to disprove god. It is up to the believer to justify his belief. What we know however is that so far nobody has given a shred of evidence regarding the existence of god. Not merely a concluding evidence: not a shred of it.

    And I notice that you refuse to acknowledge the rather dubious moral nature of said worshiped God, existing or not.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    The thing is, whether it is a gay Christian or a Muslim eating bacon, what's to say that his rather liberal and cherry picking interpretation of his faith is the right one? The moderates of any faith are generally more accommodating than the radicals, yet they are just like the radicals unjustified in their beliefs and their moderation does not exonerate their faith from criticism. In fact, their own rejection of the more difficult and more destructive aspects of their beliefs is a disavow of the value of their belief. If you cannot follow the rules of your faith, why make it your faith? "Oh I believe in Jesus and the Holy Catholic Church, but yeah, sex before marriage is pretty stupid, but surely, that is not what Jesus said." "There is only one god but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet, but it's okay to drink alcohol and eat pork. But not to mock the Prophet, that is not cool."

    Most moderate religious people I've met seem to identify with the Muslim or Christian God, but usually accept that their holy books were written by men as a basic moral guide for uneducated sand dwellers two thousand years ago. I suppose you could say that they subscribe to an "inner truth", rather than following it all word for word.

    I think it's all as mad as you do, but I'm concerned about a growing attitude that says Muslims should be punished or be apologising for the actions of terrorists.

    I would rather have a moderate Muslim or Christian as a fundie one as neighbour, but that does not change the fact that they decide to follow a faith they themselves know is flawed. If the holy book is mistaken on many issues, if its doctrin cannot be applied in the modern world, why call it holy? What's the inner truth they subscribe to?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I was talking to God just last night, old bloke with a beard. A bit like Jeremy
    Corbyn. Although he's a bit right wing, believes in Slavery and killing gay
    People, but everyone gets a bit more right wing as they get older.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,102
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @MyNameisMyBond The burden of proof resides in the person making the positive claim, in this instance the existence of God and this particular god (who revealed himself to Mohammed, ordered the whole humanity to follow a particular set of rules, etc.). Until they show a modicum of evidence for god, then yes their belief is completely unjustified. They can believe all they want, but cannot expect non believers to live by the rules of this hypothetical god. Muslims are not alone: Christians' belief is unjustified, Buddhists' belief is unjustified, etc.

    And even IF there was a god and it happened to be the Muslim god, worshiping him or obeying him would be entirely up to them, not me or anyone else. And I would add that their god is a rather unpleasant a petty ruler who does not deserve to be worshiped or obeyed.

    @Ludovico, correct, sir.

    @MyNameIsMyBondRn, as secular people who have already witnessed the gruesome consequences of being slave to the mass hysteria called organised religion, we have a duty to wash those brain slugs from the minds of people currently making the same mistake. These aren't medieval times any more with only a handful of humans in the entire world, no weapons of mass destruction and no dramatic climate change at hand, where delusional people can affect, at worst, their local village. Instead we're living in a world that's overpopulated (mainly because of ridiculous cultural and religious mandates to keep women around as uneducated child factories), that has the tools to destroy half a continent at the push of a button and that's facing one of its worst ecological (and consequently economical, political, ...) crises since the dawn of Man. So yes, Muslim beliefs are unjustified, insane and dangerous, passing them on to their children is a form of child abuse that furthermore puts those children in a competitive disadvantage and facilitates their sympathy for terrorism, and the fact that they "fear god" is perhaps the single most powerful tool evil people have to agitate their followers and send them out to blow themselves up. Furthermore, how, in the face of compelling scientific evidence that nullifies every . single . detail in those so-called holy books, one can still cling to archaic doctrine, is beyond me. But then, if you fail to properly educate the young, if you replace maths, astronomy and physics for teachings in religious dogma, then you're deliberately building an army of frustrated, misguided, dangerous and delirious folks. It happens in the Islamic world, it happens amongst Jehova's Witnesses, it happens in the USA, it happens everywhere. We should no longer condone this but then, we, secular folks, WE are the true prophets of peace. We don't live by the sword, we don't mix in other people's affairs, we don't blow up churches or shoot people. Our weapons are education, information, public fora... Raising our voice is the most violent thing we can be accused of doing. We don't decapitate "infidels". We don't crucify heliocentric cosmologists. We don't kill reason, truth and logic; we don't make up stories, false promises and reasons for terror. We kindly leave that to the followers of the "religion of peace", which almost every religion claims to be by the way. Book burners, suicide bombers, wife enslavers, homophobic hate preachers in Baptist Churches, ... they are, indeed, spreaders of the word of a "religion of peace", the word of a fictitious supernatural being that loves us all yet apparently wants us all brutally slain the minute we start using the brain that 'He' sarcastically blessed us with. Open your eyes, use your brain, unbuckle yourself from the clutches of dogmatic authority. Understand that you were put here for no reason, by no-one and that the cosmos will never know you exist nor care about you. And then, you can finally start making a difference by being a modest, kind, rational person.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Nonexistence is the accepted term.

    No; UN alludes to; Urbi N(N=14)= You can divide 14 in 2 parts and the result is 7; 7 can NOT be divided with Wordly means; according to the old greeks 7 is the old greeks definition of where NATURE starts to Produce discord in form of DISTORTION; URBI means CITY; and in its turn CITIZEN; Are; According to the Urban citizen this is a common knowledge..!= UN-EXISTENCE..!
  • Posts: 4,602
    "What makes Ludovico think, that the muslims society in its beliefs are unjustified?-They can be more Human than Yourself because they fear God in a way You Never WILL do."

    So the defintion of humanity is to live in fear and behave yourself? What a perfect justification for a dictatorship and, at the same time, undermining the ability for humans to do good things whilst not living in fear. Also, wonderfully insulting to all atheists as, by definition, they dont live in fear of God and, so , cant be as human as someone living under the fear of God.

    I love these posts as they provide clear and concise evidence of how far we have to go and just how muddled our thinking still is.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    I was talking to God just last night, old bloke with a beard. A bit like Jeremy
    Corbyn. Although he's a bit right wing, believes in Slavery and killing gay
    People, but everyone gets a bit more right wing as they get older.
    -I am an old bloke with a beard..!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Well, you're always right, or so you keep telling us. Still blaming the victims thought, now
    That is really nasty, and God like.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Nonexistence is the accepted term.

    No; UN alludes to; Urbi N(N=14)= You can divide 14 in 2 parts and the result is 7; 7 can NOT be divided with Wordly means; according to the old greeks 7 is the old greeks definition of where NATURE starts to Produce discord in form of DISTORTION; URBI means CITY; and in its turn CITIZEN; Are; According to the Urban citizen this is a common knowledge..!= UN-EXISTENCE..!

    -Actually it is in latin terms ; UN EXO FACTO! (Urbi N/14 Excelcior 'X'(=unknown) Omnibus(=wordly) F/6 Aurii 'C'(=100 senators in the parliament) Thesis Omnibus(=wordly); Even the urban citizens knows that 14 can only be divided Once the question has an unknown factor Wordly that can not be helped by using the number 6 to divide it so it becomes 3; (as) Seen by the one hundred Senators in The Parliament deciding over the matter..!
  • Posts: 233
    Nonexistence is the accepted term.

    No; UN alludes to; Urbi N(N=14)= You can divide 14 in 2 parts and the result is 7; 7 can NOT be divided with Wordly means; according to the old greeks 7 is the old greeks definition of where NATURE starts to Produce discord in form of DISTORTION; URBI means CITY; and in its turn CITIZEN; Are; According to the Urban citizen this is a common knowledge..!= UN-EXISTENCE..!

    -Actually it is in latin terms ; UN EXO FACTO! (Urbi N/14 Excelcior 'X'(=unknown) Omnibus(=wordly) F/6 Aurii 'C'(=100 senators in the parliament) Thesis Omnibus(=wordly); Even the urban citizens knows that 14 can only be divided Once the question has an unknown factor Wordly that can not be helped by using the number 6 to divide it so it becomes 3; (as) Seen by the one hundred Senators in The Parliament deciding over the matter..!

    Who the hell is this guy and what on Earth is he banging on about?
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Nonexistence is the accepted term.

    No; UN alludes to; Urbi N(N=14)= You can divide 14 in 2 parts and the result is 7; 7 can NOT be divided with Wordly means; according to the old greeks 7 is the old greeks definition of where NATURE starts to Produce discord in form of DISTORTION; URBI means CITY; and in its turn CITIZEN; Are; According to the Urban citizen this is a common knowledge..!= UN-EXISTENCE..!

    -Actually it is in latin terms ; UN EXO FACTO! (Urbi N/14 Excelcior 'X'(=unknown) Omnibus(=wordly) F/6 Aurii 'C'(=100 senators in the parliament) Thesis Omnibus(=wordly); Even the urban citizens knows that 14 can only be divided Once the question has an unknown factor Wordly that can not be helped by using the number 6 to divide it so it becomes 3; (as) Seen by the one hundred Senators in The Parliament deciding over the matter..!

    Who the hell is this guy and what on Earth is he banging on about?

    -I have nothing to do with hell; The Sciences knows what I have told You here.
    It belongs to worldly facts that most peoples have forgotten.
    This earth are depending on facts like that.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    No one knows, he thinks writing in metaphor, makes him an " Intellectual" :))
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    No one knows, he thinks writing in metaphor, makes him an " Intellectual" :))

    -Actually it is; METAPHORA; apropos- are Your glass half full or half EMTY?!

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    See, He's never wrong :)) I guess these arguments here, are the closest he gets to any
    Form of human contact. Apart from. His Mom shouting down into the basement. :D
    I'm certain we'll read about him some year, another sad, inadequate, loner going off
    On one. :))
    I've come to think of him as MI6's own " Nutter on the bus" ;) always laughed AT
    and never With ! :))
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Has this fly still not been squatted yet? I think it's about time.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    See, He's never wrong :)) I guess these arguments here, are the closest he gets to any
    Form of human contact. Apart from. His Mom shouting down into the basement. :D
    I'm certain we'll read about him some year, another sad, inadequate, loner going off
    On one. :))
    I've come to think of him as MI6's own " Nutter on the bus" ;) always laughed AT
    and never With ! :))

    With adequate knowledge One Seldom needs to be at a staggering loss; IGNORANCE killed the cat; curiosity without knowledge is contraproductive..!-how was it; is Your Glass Half FULL or just half EMTY?!..?

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The important question is " what's in the glass" been watch many beer adverts lately ? :))
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    The important question is " what's in the glass" been watch many beer adverts lately ? :))

    -No; The Question was; Is Your Glass Half Full or Just Half Emty?

  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    -The answer is; When something is FULL that is a Positive; When Something is EMPTY it is negative; Half Full means Half as Positive; Half EMPTY means half as Negative..!
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