Music in SPECTRE

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  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,034
    Zekidk wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Also I believe the track you're referring to is 'Donna Lucia'.
    No, it isn't. Like I said: it's not on the OST. It's played
    right when Lucia enters her villa
    Donna Lucia is played
    when Bond kisses her later on.
    Answering my own question here. It's Vivaldi:
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Have to say the musical highlight for me, as in SF, was when Newman very briefly references the title track. Suddenly, out of nowhere, and very fleetingly, you have some emotional resonance.

    Newman's score just has a deadening soporific effect on several scenes. His music is like aural anaesthetic. The film (which is basically okay) could have been elevated to a whole new level with a better score. I have no qualms in saying that even Arnold would have done a better job.

  • 00Ralf00Ralf Germany
    Posts: 149
    I only like two parts about the music. First one is the theme in the pre-title-sequence. Everything fits so well together and doesn't need altering, imho.

    Second one is a part of the car chase music, namely
    when the Vatican comes into shot. I love the heavenly choir that plays at that point.

    Other than that it's pretty forgettable. I also wonder why we haven't got a proper full arrangement of the Bond theme. Did someone forbid Arnold and Newman to use that in the Craig Era at other places than the final scene/credits? I feel like IF we get to hear it, it always cuts off before the ba-da-da-daaaaah-da-da-da, which disturbs me a lot. The PTS digger scene in Skyfall SCREAMS Bond Theme to me, instead we get slight hints of it that end up being forgettable.

    The snow action sequence in SPECTRE would be much better with the OHMSS Theme we heard in the trailer. Obviously Newman didn't do the trailer music, but I wish someone had listened to the fans and used that trailer music in the film. It would've made the scene so much better.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    00Ralf wrote: »
    I also wonder why we haven't got a proper full arrangement of the Bond theme. Did someone forbid Arnold and Newman to use that in the Craig Era at other places than the final scene/credits? I feel like IF we get to hear it, it always cuts off before the ba-da-da-daaaaah-da-da-da, which disturbs me a lot.

    I think you're correct. There is probably a gag order on the Bond theme (how else does one explain its relative absence since DAD), to make up /even out for all the times Arnold lazily used it during the Brosnan era.

    Now it's reserved for some seriously retro bad 'a' moment like the DB5 intro or My name is Bond, James Bond.....
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    00Ralf wrote: »
    I also wonder why we haven't got a proper full arrangement of the Bond theme. Did someone forbid Arnold and Newman to use that in the Craig Era at other places than the final scene/credits? I feel like IF we get to hear it, it always cuts off before the ba-da-da-daaaaah-da-da-da, which disturbs me a lot.

    I think you're correct. There is probably a gag order on the Bond theme (how else does one explain its relative absence since DAD), to make up /even out for all the times Arnold lazily used it during the Brosnan era.

    Now it's reserved for some seriously retro bad 'a' moment like the DB5 intro or My name is Bond, James Bond.....

    Maybe they hold it back because they resent paying marvellous Monty too much in royalties?
  • Posts: 483
    Has anyone got a recommendation of the proper way to sequence the sound track. Tracks 18 and 19 obviously being from the PTS. Are they the only ones out of order?
  • loullersloullers Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 61
    For those of you interested in hearing the Full Soundtrack for Risico (our upcoming James Bond Fan Film) it's up on YouTube now so give it a listen if you want to: https://youtube.com/watch?v=X6zw3M6jt5Y

    Thanks!

    Btw I'm seeing SPECTRE tomorrow :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,652
    Would really appreciate someone making a chronological list.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Alright, alright. I said I wouldn't be back here for awhile, but alas you guys and gals are just too much fun to be away from for too long.

    I will say your reactions to my post on the previous page made me laugh. I'm feeling a little better.

    ...still hate the score, though. But, oh well. Can't win 'em all.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,447
    SJK91 wrote: »
    Alright, alright. I said I wouldn't be back here for awhile, but alas you guys and gals are just too much fun to be away from for too long.

    I will say your reactions to my post on the previous page made me laugh. I'm feeling a little better.

    ...still hate the score, though. But, oh well. Can't win 'em all.

    You should be ashamed. ;)
  • Posts: 1,494
    TripAces wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    The caliber of the film itself still heavily outweighs the score, but a good (or great) soundtrack can lift even the worst of Bond movies when they get stuck in certain places.

    MR would be nigh unwatchable without Barry's work. The cues from the stealing of the Moonraker, arrival at Chateau Drax and Corinne's demise really lift an otherwise terribly by-the-numbers film.

    Eh, I hate to tell you: it's still unwatchable. ;)

    Not after six tumblers of cask strength Bowmore Tempest it's not :-bd
  • Posts: 198
    Allthough the atmospheric music by Newman is not very listenable as an album it works really well in the movie. Just saw the movie and an absolute highlight is Backfire during the car chase, and then especially when the choir comes in and we see the cars perform some kind of dance on the rhythm of the music. It is really awesome done through image and music!
  • thomasetchethomasetche France
    Posts: 18
    Muddyw wrote: »
    Allthough the atmospheric music by Newman is not very listenable as an album it works really well in the movie. Just saw the movie and an absolute highlight is Backfire during the car chase, and then especially when the choir comes in and we see the cars perform some kind of dance on the rhythm of the music. It is really awesome done through image and music!

    I agree! And Actually i Think there are some good Barryesque moves in some tracks,specially romantic ones. I Think about Donna Lucia or Madelaine.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Bizarre. As with SF I found the score completely underwhelming. I actually think it's a real shame as the film is really not bad at all, but there are many scenes that just feel a bit flat because Newman just can't do excitement, suspense, action or fun.
  • thomasetchethomasetche France
    Posts: 18
    Getafix wrote: »
    Bizarre. As with SF I found the score completely underwhelming. I actually think it's a real shame as the film is really not bad at all, but there are many scenes that just feel a bit flat because Newman just can't do excitement, suspense, action or fun.

    I definitely agree With You about the fact it is not Barry, unfortunatly. But there are some good tracks IMO.
    Specially the romantic themes. I'm not that exciting about the action themes. They're ok but kinda too generic.
    IMO, the real problem again for me, it' s still the lack of James Bond Theme. But it's a récurrent problem since CR so it had nothing to do With Newman i guess...
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.
  • thomasetchethomasetche France
    Posts: 18
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I'm more into David Arnold as well.
    However, i Think SP is a better score then SF :).

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I disagree. After 5 attempts, overall he was possibly better in QoS and CR yes, but it was not 'significantly' imho. Just barely, as well he should be after 5 tries that we had to endure.

    I don't have a problem with people advocating for Newman's removal, but holding up Arnold as the alternative is uinspirational. Bond can and should do much better, again imho.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,272
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I disagree. After 5 attempts, overall he was possibly better in QoS and CR yes, but it was not 'significantly' imho. Just barely, as well he should be after 5 tries that we had to endure.

    I don't have a problem with people advocating for Newman's removal, but holding up Arnold as the alternative is uinspirational. Bond can and should do much better, again imho.

    I don't understand the whole Arnold vs Newman debate. Some of us like them both. I prefer Newman's work, but some of Arnold's work in CR and QoS was sensational.

    I have the CR, QoS, and SF OSTs all merged in one playlist (will add SP, too). It all works together.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I disagree. After 5 attempts, overall he was possibly better in QoS and CR yes, but it was not 'significantly' imho. Just barely, as well he should be after 5 tries that we had to endure.

    I don't have a problem with people advocating for Newman's removal, but holding up Arnold as the alternative is uinspirational. Bond can and should do much better, again imho.

    I don't understand the whole Arnold vs Newman debate. Some of us like them both. I prefer Newman's work, but some of Arnold's work in CR and QoS was sensational.

    I have the CR, QoS, and SF OSTs all merged in one playlist (will add SP, too). It all works together.

    Neither do I actually. However from my point of view they are both mediocre and not up to the standards that Bond deserves. Some criticize Newman and advocate Arnold. I don't agree. We have Newman now and he's tolerable with some decent flourishes, like Arnold was. I can live with him, but would I like Newman for 5? No. Did I want Arnold for 5? No. I endured him however.

    Time for someone new. Someone better. It's easy......any number of films this year itself have demonstrated this amply.
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I disagree. After 5 attempts, overall he was possibly better in QoS and CR yes, but it was not 'significantly' imho. Just barely, as well he should be after 5 tries that we had to endure.

    I don't have a problem with people advocating for Newman's removal, but holding up Arnold as the alternative is uinspirational. Bond can and should do much better, again imho.

    I don't understand the whole Arnold vs Newman debate. Some of us like them both. I prefer Newman's work, but some of Arnold's work in CR and QoS was sensational.

    I have the CR, QoS, and SF OSTs all merged in one playlist (will add SP, too). It all works together.

    Neither do I actually. However from my point of view they are both mediocre and not up to the standards that Bond deserves. Some criticize Newman and advocate Arnold. I don't agree. We have Newman now and he's tolerable with some decent flourishes, like Arnold was. I can live with him, but would I like Newman for 5? No. Did I want Arnold for 5? No. I endured him however.

    Time for someone new. Someone better. It's easy......any number of films this year itself have demonstrated this amply.

    You misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think Arnold is all that great - I just think his CR and QoS scores are better than what Newman has given us. I would much prefer a totally new, better composer. The fact that Arnold is better than Newman is a damning indictment of Newman IMO.

    I feel Newman's music completely distances me from the film. In SP I am watching beautiful photography, great performances etc but the score just completely lets the film down. I'm actually really annoyed that Mendes brought him back. The film is crying out for a different kind of score. I didn't care that much with SF as I didn't like the film, but I actually quite enjoyed SP and just wish it had had a better score.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I still think Arnold's CR and QOS efforts are significantly better than anything Newman has done in two outings.

    SP is a better film than SF IMO but both scores are equally lacklustre.

    I disagree. After 5 attempts, overall he was possibly better in QoS and CR yes, but it was not 'significantly' imho. Just barely, as well he should be after 5 tries that we had to endure.

    I don't have a problem with people advocating for Newman's removal, but holding up Arnold as the alternative is uinspirational. Bond can and should do much better, again imho.

    I don't understand the whole Arnold vs Newman debate. Some of us like them both. I prefer Newman's work, but some of Arnold's work in CR and QoS was sensational.

    I have the CR, QoS, and SF OSTs all merged in one playlist (will add SP, too). It all works together.

    Neither do I actually. However from my point of view they are both mediocre and not up to the standards that Bond deserves. Some criticize Newman and advocate Arnold. I don't agree. We have Newman now and he's tolerable with some decent flourishes, like Arnold was. I can live with him, but would I like Newman for 5? No. Did I want Arnold for 5? No. I endured him however.

    Time for someone new. Someone better. It's easy......any number of films this year itself have demonstrated this amply.

    You misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think Arnold is all that great - I just think his CR and QoS scores are better than what Newman has given us. I would much prefer a totally new, better composer. The fact that Arnold is better than Newman is a damning indictment of Newman IMO.

    I feel Newman's music completely distances me from the film. In SP I am watching beautiful photography, great performances etc but the score just completely lets the film down. I'm actually really annoyed that Mendes brought him back. The film is crying out for a different kind of score. I didn't care that much with SF as I didn't like the film, but I actually quite enjoyed SP and just wish it had had a better score.

    Fair enough.

    Newman's music is not for everyone, especially those who like the sweeping Barry'esque action melodies. He's far better at the more intimate stuff, but even in that respect he did not come up with anything really standout in SP except for the often mentioned Donna Lucia.

    Newman came along because he's Mendes man. The blame should be laid at Mendes feet. Having said that, I'm happy Arnold is not with us any more either because I was sick and tired of him being the 'go to' man for Bond. He is not worthy of that position imho, no matter how much he may have finally improved towards the end.

    Anyone who gets the privilege to do more than one Bond score should really be first class. Newman won a Grammy so they probably had to bring him back. So actually blame Mendes and the academy.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes I blame Mendes. But also perhaps EON for allowing the auteur director thing to go too far. EON should exercise a veto.

    I really struggle to understand what it is that people hear in Newman's music that I'm missing. His music is generic, utterly undistinguished background ear wash IMO. Even though I can't stand it, in some weird way I'd almost prefer a GE type score - at least it has personality.

    The thing I personally find so odd about Newman is that to my mind he literally sucks the excitement out of a scene. His music actively undermines the directors apparent intentions. Clearly that's not what everyone feels though and that underlines how music is so subjective.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,652
    Simple, it's your opinion. You're not into his style of music. That's fine.

    If EON has to be blamed for anything regarding the music, it's that they don't have the singer and composer work together on the song. I knew that when the song was announced and that Newman's name was not credited as either producer or writer, that he would only have a minimal amount of it in the score. History shows that when the composer and singer work separately on a Bond song, there's little chance of it appearing in the score. That happened with LTK, GE, DAD and QOS. At least Newman tried to put the song into his score despite not having worked with Smith.
  • Posts: 11,425
    True. That was something I'd hoped he would do more of. The one brief reference worked really well IMO I but stops as soon as its started - weird, considering how long the film is. barry would have used a theme like that repeatedly and to great effect.
  • Posts: 1,494
    Simple, it's your opinion. You're not into his style of music. That's fine.

    If EON has to be blamed for anything regarding the music, it's that they don't have the singer and composer work together on the song. I knew that when the song was announced and that Newman's name was not credited as either producer or writer, that he would only have a minimal amount of it in the score. History shows that when the composer and singer work separately on a Bond song, there's little chance of it appearing in the score. That happened with LTK, GE, DAD and QOS. At least Newman tried to put the song into his score despite not having worked with Smith.

    This is unforgivable. There is no excuse for not getting this collaboration up and running as soon as the artist is chosen.

    It is quite simply SLOPPY MANAGEMENT on EoN’s part, and once again proves the point I continually make that Babs should let someone else call the creative shots – either she does not have (or make) the time to take these creative decisions seriously (in which case she needs to appoint someone who does), or, as I suspect, she lacks judgment.

    B.Broccoli is a producer in the sense that she knows the industry side of things and has good contacts + knows how to fund the Bond projects. She is however NOT suited to the role of a producer with creative input.
  • Posts: 11,425
    On one hand I am inclined to agree. On the other, I'm fairly sure that without Babs in her current role the series would be on the ropes. Also, how do you find a producer who will consistently make the right creative decisions? It's not like you can pluck someone out of thin air.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,434
    Getafix wrote: »
    On the other, I'm fairly sure that without Babs in her current role the series would be on the ropes.

    This. Do not underestimate her.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Leaving so much to the director is risky, but if you want these big names then thats what you have to do very often.
  • this is by far the worst Bond soundtrack ever made! In it's 70% it has a slow tune good for a love drama but not for Bond, the rest 30% is pure SF soundtrack, just a remix of it! Fully uninspired! The 4 action tracks have the same type of music: they have the same back drums and music and just some crazy violins over that. Do you call that action music? This man does not know how to write music for a Bond film! Maybe his work on other films is good, but here not. The use of the James Bond theme is the same everywhere, tah tah tah tah, for 20secs and that's all. The is none track that i could remember after listening to the soundtrack except the writings on the wall instrumental which was the best track on the cd. The orchestration is very poor, compared to the Arnold soundtracks. I don't think that Arnold it the number one soundtrack musician but he is surely better than Newman, please Arnold come back!
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