Music in SPECTRE

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,766
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    And yes like Zimmer and Williams ...and Arnold, Newman does use or reintroduce themes from the previous movie and maybe a bit too much.

    That is most important to note. Most composers, even the highly revered Williams, do reuse previous music, even Arnold was not above it on occasion (sometimes I even hear his stuff spill over onto his non-Bond films). Aside from the occasional use of the "007" theme, Barry was clearly an exception to the rule, avoiding using previous material. I suppose that spoiled us in some way?

    The way I see it, given that this film is closely following up SKYFALL, it makes sense for there to be some connective tissue via use of previous music. I personally do not think it's too much, as there enough original SPECTRE cues and that the old cues are tweaked in parts like "Westminster Bridge" with the addition of Barry style muted trumpets.

    Anyway, I think I'll retire from these Newman threads for now. I've listened to the score enough to give my opinion on it and want to keep it fresh enough to hear it as it was intended to be: Within the film.
  • Surprised to see some people lump CR in with the bad scores. I thought the pieces like the one where he's driving to the ocean club and the shot of the train were classic bond. It incorporates the catchy theme song as Barry often did.

    They need to get someone who will try and channel Barry. Yes there will never be another Barry but half a Barry is better than the generic dross served up in SP and SF.
  • Posts: 198
    I watched SPECTRE last Thursday and I was surprised by the soundtrack. It works, it has a lot of tension and suspense. In the cinema it works fantastic I think. The music really ads to the drama and suspense.

    Now I listen to the soundtrack at home and now I can feel the suspense in the music because I have seen the movie. And it is awesome, very exciting.

    Maybe we shouldn't forget that with Daniel Craig we entered a different kind of movie, more action thriller and drama than the more lighthearted movies in the era before him.
  • The two Newman scores are better than any of Arnold's efforts. Newman has given the films a classy sheen rather than Barry lite pastiche and headache inducing crash bang wallop action music of Arnold. . It takes more than a fan to score a Bond movie. Thomas Newman's scores are better than anything since Barry left. Spectre is considerably enhanced by Newman's score. Exotic, romantic, thrilling, tense. A great Bond score.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,117
    Surprised to see some people lump CR in with the bad scores. I thought the pieces like the one where he's driving to the ocean club and the shot of the train were classic bond. It incorporates the catchy theme song as Barry often did.

    They need to get someone who will try and channel Barry. Yes there will never be another Barry but half a Barry is better than the generic dross served up in SP and SF.

    Did someone actually say that? SP's score is not even fit to lace the boots on the laces of CR's boots.

    The scenes you mention along with White Knight are the only times Arnold really managed to channel Barry perfectly.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,058
    Arnold at least gave a damn about The Bond sound and Barry's legacy. Arnold's scores are in no way a "Pastiche" Perhaps Homage is perhaps the better word. It's a modern update to the 60's sound that Barry created for Bond. A Pastiche of Barry is what you hear in the Austin Powers movies or any other Bond spoof movies. Arnold has put out good sweeping romantic themes too. City of Lovers, Elektra's theme.
  • Posts: 484
    Murdock wrote: »
    Arnold at least gave a damn about The Bond sound and Barry's legacy. Arnold's scores are in no way a "Pastiche" Perhaps Homage is perhaps the better word. It's a modern update to the 60's sound that Barry created for Bond. A Pastiche of Barry is what you hear in the Austin Powers movies or any other Bond spoof movies. Arnold has put out good sweeping romantic themes too. City of Lovers, Elektra's theme.

    In TND it still borders on pastiche. Just because Arnold serves up some Barry style cues doesn't mean he works like Barry, understands Barry or is remotely comparable.

    TND was fun, CR an improvement and QOS a pretty decent film score but TWINE and DAD are utter tuneless tosh. I can't remember much from either.

    If anything only Bill Conti's score evoked the 'approach' of Barry with repeated romantic motifs and action themes that were vibrant and memorable.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Cowley wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Arnold at least gave a damn about The Bond sound and Barry's legacy. Arnold's scores are in no way a "Pastiche" Perhaps Homage is perhaps the better word. It's a modern update to the 60's sound that Barry created for Bond. A Pastiche of Barry is what you hear in the Austin Powers movies or any other Bond spoof movies. Arnold has put out good sweeping romantic themes too. City of Lovers, Elektra's theme.

    In TND it still borders on pastiche. Just because Arnold serves up some Barry style cues doesn't mean he works like Barry, understands Barry or is remotely comparable.

    TND was fun, CR an improvement and QOS a pretty decent film score but TWINE and DAD are utter tuneless tosh. I can't remember much from either.

    If anything only Bill Conti's score evoked the 'approach' of Barry with repeated romantic motifs and action themes that were vibrant and memorable.

    100% agree, including your comments on Conti. I think he evoked Barry & the Bond sound better than Arnold while still being original, & I don't even like his score.
  • Cowley - have to disagree with you. Are you seriously suggesting that Peaceful Fountains Of Desire and Wheelchair Access (and I only give 2 examples) are utter tuneless tosh? Please.
  • Posts: 198
    The two Newman scores are better than any of Arnold's efforts. Newman has given the films a classy sheen rather than Barry lite pastiche and headache inducing crash bang wallop action music of Arnold. . It takes more than a fan to score a Bond movie. Thomas Newman's scores are better than anything since Barry left. Spectre is considerably enhanced by Newman's score. Exotic, romantic, thrilling, tense. A great Bond score.


    This! David Arnold only had one repetitive trick: ugly technobeats. Although Casino Royale was better and the operascene in QoS was nicely done.
  • Muddyw - Again - apologises - but what does "this" mean? There is more Bond music DNA in Arnold's tracks then anything Newman has produced. And are you seriously suggesting that Arnold's ugly technobeats ( and yes there are plenty in his scores) are uglier than Newman's in Skyfall and Spectre?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    The two Newman scores are better than any of Arnold's efforts. Newman has given the films a classy sheen rather than Barry lite pastiche and headache inducing crash bang wallop action music of Arnold. . It takes more than a fan to score a Bond movie. Thomas Newman's scores are better than anything since Barry left. Spectre is considerably enhanced by Newman's score. Exotic, romantic, thrilling, tense. A great Bond score.
    Muddyw wrote: »
    This! David Arnold only had one repetitive trick: ugly technobeats. Although Casino Royale was better and the operascene in QoS was nicely done.

    The items that I have underlined are my most significant criticisms of how I remember Arnold's music, with a few exceptions that almost everyone keeps holding up over and over again (and that should tell us something about what was good after 5 films) as being decent (e.g. African Rundown, Night at the Opera, Time to Get Out).
  • The return of Arnold for Bond 25 would be a very negative step. Five scores are enough, he's had his chance. I'd stay with Newman but if that isn't possible then go with Desplat or Craig Armstrong.
  • Posts: 198
    Muddyw - Again - apologises - but what does "this" emean? There is more Bond music DNA in Arnold's tracks then anything Newman has produced. And are you seriously suggesting that Arnold's ugly technobeats ( and yes there are plenty in his scores) are uglier than Newman's in Skyfall and Spectre?

    "This" means I agree with PeterGreenhill. Maybe my issue is Arnold never comes close to the sound and melodies by Barry. The best he could was try to hommage to Barry. Of course he did his best but I don't like all of it.

    And yes the techno by Newman sounds different, more the likes of Hans Zimmer for Batman.
    I think this techno sounds more tense or sinister, more atmospheric. It does suit the Craig era more I think.


  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,058
    Just as long as Newman doesn't return for the next film I'll be happy. His vanilla scores don't suit Bond.
  • Peter,

    What about Newman's Barry pastiches - Severine and Donna Lucia? Or are they not?

    And as for crash bang wallop music? In act 3 - Newman is up there with Arnold.

    Agree - we need fresh blood. But Arnold like Newman did give "Exotic, romantic, thrilling, tense." Both also gave forgettable generic nothingness.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    What about Newman's Barry pastiches - Severine and Donna Lucia? Or are they not?

    From my perspective, it might be pastiche, or at least evokes Barry, but it is also tremendously good music. Melodic and atmospherically lush with excellent use of strings to evoke romance. My only criticism is that it appears that both tracks were underused.

    I wouldn't have minded if the motifs from Donna Lucia had been used in the title song to be honest, in lieu of what Smith gave us.
  • bondjames -totally agree - as does Paris and Bond, Electra's Theme and Peaceful Fountains of Desire - which are also - and forgive me for stealing your words -but "is also tremendously good music. Melodic and atmospherically lush with excellent use of strings to evoke romance."

    But poor old Arnold gets bollocked.

  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,058
    And not to mention this exquisite romantic, atmospheric and melodic piece by Arnold.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @Fountainbridge1, I don't remember those tracks at all to be honest. I'll have to go back and listen to them. The only slower track I remember from Arnold is Vesper's theme, because it was played in QoS as well to connect with the events of CR. I thought it was ok, but still prefer the two Newman tracks you note above, because of the use of strings (a Barry staple which I personally love).

    Ok, I listened to them, and here are my personal thoughts:

    1. Paris and Bond - don't like it. I remember it now. It just builds into this crescendo that reminds me a little of Smith's falsetto in WOTW (which I can't stand). Too much imho. Not subtle.
    2. Elektra's Theme - not bad, but again there is a slightly melodramatic rather than uplifting tone to this (imho) that again, to my ears at least, evokes WOTW. Still, I like it better than 1.
    3. Peaceful Fountains Of Desire - not bad. Perhaps I like this one best of the 3. but the melody is not all that memorable to me

    I still think these 3 tracks from Arnold aren't up to the same level as those 2 from Newman. There's something very uplifting about the two Newman tracks to my ears, without being overemotional or sad. I don't know how to describe it except to say it sounds 'epic' and 'grand' without being 'noisy'. There's also (imho) an overuse of pianos in Arnold's slower compositions, which is not my favourite for this sort of thing (brings back memories of something depressing.....like the 'Love Story' theme if you know what I mean.......and I realize some people love that tune.)

    The slow stuff is Newman's area of expertise however.
  • Murdock
    Not a pastiche -in no way.





  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    We need a new composer if for no other reason than to foster new debates.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    And not to mention this exquisite romantic, atmospheric and melodic piece by Arnold.

    Yes, this is not bad at all. A lot of the CR soundtrack is actually very good.
  • bondjames:

    The beauty of life is that we are all different -appreciate your slant on the music - and hey - we have one thing in common - James Bond
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames:

    The beauty of life is that we are all different -appreciate your slant on the music - and hey - we have one thing in common - James Bond

    True enough. There's no pleasing everyone all the time (just look at the SP reviews!).

    As @mcdonbb says, perhaps the only way to solve this ongoing debate is to get someone new in there so we can start taking potshots at him.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,058
    Just goes to show how passionate we can be over music. :))
  • Murdock -it sure is important though!
  • Posts: 250
    Having now listened to it in the film, I'm (again) perplexed by the caterwauling about this score. It's fine, and the Skyfall repeats aren't tracked music apart from one or two times from what I can tell. The snow chase is great, the Rome chase is great... YMMV I guess.
  • "caterwauling" - smashing word - you learn something everyday!
  • Posts: 3,040
    Did I just read that someone prefers Bill Conti's sound more than David Arnold's?
    FYEO sounds extremely dated, because of the early 80's disco-drums and synth used in the car chase, the ski chase, etc. TSWLM suffers from the same.
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