Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2015 Posts: 7,526
  • Posts: 6,820
    Oops, yeh that does sound a bit arrogant of me. Apologies!
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I'm glad I love all the Bond actors. In varying orders of course. ;)

    I agree with the above. My favourites just happen to be SC followed by DC.

    I also personally feel Brosnan is the worst due to his (in comparison) poor films. He was (in my opinion) just a weak cross between Connery and Moore, but not as good as either. Saying that he was still an acceptable Bond.

    That Dalton trailer is class!!! Daltons voiceover works perfectly.

    I love Brosnan's era. He's my favorite Bond. GoldenEye for me is perfect, his followups weren't as good. TWINE being my second favorite of his. He was right the time.

    Brosnan will be looked upon much more favourably once enough time has passed and he is no longer the predecessor of the current Bond.

    I loved the 4 films he did and i agree with Jason his films will be seen in a better light when some time passes, after all that's what happened with Timothy Dalton.

    Anyway i did enjoy very much Dalton as Bond and two films he did and the complain that he doesn't look cinematic enough its because of the budget of the films.

    The scripts were fine, his performance was great in Both and did i believe him as a ladies man, the only problem with him is that he didn't get the support DC is getting right now. They were afraid of taking the route they did.

    The films in script peace and performances were great but the tv movie feel was because of the budget in production.



  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,130
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved the 4 films he did and i agree with Jason his films will be seen in a better light when some time passes, after all that's what happened with Timothy Dallton.

    I have read this rationale before and I disagree with the comparison. The circumstances are quite different.

    Dalton was never disparaged by the hardcore fans. There was no internet, but what fan community there was always supported him, and, for the most part, still do. It was mainly the critics and the public at large who didn't accept Dalton in the role, and they still consider his short reign a failure.

    Brosnan was welcomed by the public, but never received the critical accolades that Craig has. And, this part is my opinion, the affection from the masses never ran as deep in comparison. Aside from those who came of age under Brosnan, he never seemed to strike a chord with long time fans. I don't see that changing, and if it does it will be an entirely different dynamic than with Dalton.

    Dalton was never unpopular with the diehards as a whole.


    Brosnan was very well liked when he was playing the role it was till Casino Royale that people started to discredit him and called him Bland Bond or GQ model bond.
    So i do think after Craig leaves and someone else gets the part Pierce will be seen in a much better light.

    Maybe the situtations with him and Dalton were different but i do think sooner or latter Pierce will be liked again.

    The purists always supported Timothy Dalton since they understood Bond in the novels was just the way Dalton portrayed him but Craig's era made almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore

    Before Craig the majority of people and lots of fans thought of James Bond as leadies man spy so when Craig steped in every critic started to accept and understand what Dalton did.

    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.

    Its funny how even Between regular Bond watchers ( people who like Bond though they are not hard ore fans) there is actually a fair ammount of people who do like what Craig brought to the table and others who prefer the typical ladies man Bond played by Sean Connery, Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery.

    You know i think it would be really interesting to compare the popularity of all the Bond actors between the hardcore true fans and just your regular Bond watchers.

    I have a suposicion the favorites would change a lot except maybe for Sean Connery.

    After all the favorite Bonds of each person changes within so many factors, like age, gender, your idea of what Bond is supposed to be, your knowledge on the character and the whole franchise.
    So many aspects influence our picks and i would love to compare Polls between true Bond Fans and regular people who like Bond.




  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,333
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Brosnan was not fired.
    They could't reach an agreement.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Szonana wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I'm glad I love all the Bond actors. In varying orders of course. ;)

    I agree with the above. My favourites just happen to be SC followed by DC.

    I also personally feel Brosnan is the worst due to his (in comparison) poor films. He was (in my opinion) just a weak cross between Connery and Moore, but not as good as either. Saying that he was still an acceptable Bond.

    That Dalton trailer is class!!! Daltons voiceover works perfectly.

    I love Brosnan's era. He's my favorite Bond. GoldenEye for me is perfect, his followups weren't as good. TWINE being my second favorite of his. He was right the time.

    Brosnan will be looked upon much more favourably once enough time has passed and he is no longer the predecessor of the current Bond.

    I loved the 4 films he did and i agree with Jason his films will be seen in a better light when some time passes, after all that's what happened with Timothy Dalton.

    Anyway i did enjoy very much Dalton as Bond and two films he did and the complain that he doesn't look cinematic enough its because of the budget of the films.

    The scripts were fine, his performance was great in Both and did i believe him as a ladies man, the only problem with him is that he didn't get the support DC is getting right now. They were afraid of taking the route they did.

    The films in script peace and performances were great but the tv movie feel was because of the budget in production.



    I fear quite the opposite is happening. Brosnan's films just look worse and worse with each passing year. Unwatchable in a number of cases. They are the only Bond films is simply never watch these days.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Birdleson wrote: »
    He was fired. He was called and told that it was over. Brosnan recounts the moment himself in EVERYTHING OR NOTHING. There is no ambiguity.

    There was no contract for a fifth movie, Eon simply decided not to continue with Brosnan.
    If Eon would not want to continue with Craig after SP it also would not mean he got fired.
    And of course I've seen the documentary.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited October 2015 Posts: 7,570
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well, short of starting a revolution here, Brosnan was a disaster in the role, imho, In fact I would go as far as to say he was miscast! I dreaded the thought that he was going to go on and on in the role after the abysmal DAD! There was the possibility with his youthful looks that he could have done as many Bond movies as Moore or Connery (Shudder!)
    What a relief when it was announced about Craig. After seeing him in the film 'Layer Cake', I knew they had the right choice. Oh, and I don't agree with the statement that Dalton fans dislike Craig. Dalton is still the best, to me, but I think Craig is brilliant, and hope he does at least two more.
    We need an appreciation thread for Lazenby too. he wasn't THAT bad!

    Here
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/7507/george-lazenby-appreciation-and-news#latest
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Maybe Roger didn't know first hand. It is my understanding that his was one of several names thrown out by Fleming as a possibility.

    I do believe (having read them repeatedly) that the Moore from THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is as close to Fleming's Bond as we have gotten on screen.

    I'm not a Fleming purist, but Roger Moore in TMWTGG is the coolest, baddest b'strd I've seen on screen since Connery up to now (except maybe DC in CR/QoS). I find him extremely believable as a smooth spy in that film (although he's probably just a tad too good looking for the role here). Much more credibly smooth and lethal in that film than Dalton imho. I wish he'd played it like that all the way through (unfortunately, the film was not a success, and that likely led to the adjustment in approach).
  • bond_azoozbondbond_azoozbond Portland,OR
    Posts: 97
    bondjames wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Maybe Roger didn't know first hand. It is my understanding that his was one of several names thrown out by Fleming as a possibility.

    I do believe (having read them repeatedly) that the Moore from THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is as close to Fleming's Bond as we have gotten on screen.

    I'm not a Fleming purist, but Roger Moore in TMWTGG is the coolest, baddest b'strd I've seen on screen since Connery up to now (except maybe DC in CR/QoS). I find him extremely believable as a smooth spy in that film (although he's probably just a tad too good looking for the role here). Much more credibly smooth and lethal in that film than Dalton imho. I wish he'd played it like that all the way through (unfortunately, the film was not a success, and that likely led to the adjustment in approach).

    Moore in LALD & TMWTGG is different than the later films .. Probably more in TMWTGG .. which is one of my favorite bond movies .. But then Moore didnt want his bond to be that way .. Although I think he was bond more than any other actor in FYEO ..
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    Again, I'm no purist, but to clarify, what I found credible about Moore in TMWTGG is the 'smooth edginess'......silky smooth but 'credibly deadly' and don't give a " " attitude.

    I've personally only seen/felt that 'credibly' with Connery and early Craig. I know many refer to Dalton as Fleming's benchmark, but I didn't buy any 'smoothness' with him. He was just rough around the edges to me......for the most part (and don't get me wrong, I like his portrayal).
  • Posts: 11,189
    If we were talking about LALD I would agree with you as I prefer his portrayal and performance in that film. He's smooth, but not to the point of overt parody. Neither is he overly aggressive.
  • Craig for me, I love Dalton but he needed more films
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Dalton couldn't lace Craig's boots IMO. Dalton is a theatre actor, a good one, put him in a Bond movie everything was over exaggerated or over elaborate. LTK the scene with the tankers prime example. Outside of Bond going to see Shakespeare I would rather see Dalton on stage. I always thought Dalton looked uncomfortable as Bond, like he lack self belief. Maybe it was his late casting after Brosnan couldn't do it with Remington Steele being picked up late by the network.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Dalton couldn't lace Craig's boots IMO. Dalton is a theatre actor, a good one, put him in a Bond movie everything was over exaggerated or over elaborate. LTK the scene with the tankers prime example. Outside of Bond going to see Shakespeare I would rather see Dalton on stage. I always thought Dalton looked uncomfortable as Bond, like he lack self belief. Maybe it was his late casting after Brosnan couldn't do it with Remington Steele being picked up late by the network.

    I say Dalton could even lace Craig's Velcro shoes :D

    But I see your point.
    The funny thing is, that it is exactly his theatre background and his overacting and pronunciation that I like so much.
    For the same reason I'm a huge fan of Patrick Stewart and his portrayal of Captain Picard.

    It worked totally for me with Dalton in his movies.

    I can see though that this kind of acting might seem dated now or that it's not for everyone.

    Furthermore I think he was comfortable in the role from the get-go.
    Brosnan on the other hand obviously was nervous at first, which can be seen in various scenes in GoldenEye.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Patrick Stewart as Bond, Jason? What do you think?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Patrick Stewart as Bond, Jason? What do you think?

    A bold James Bond
    :-j

    I'm tempted to say after a blond James Bond why not, but I don't :P

    But Daniel Craig as the new Captain of a new Star Trek mission, now that I would like :D
    He'd look great in an uniform!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.

    I agree that it was unexpected, but I think he pulled it off (although I know many disagree). He played against type and did it well, but I agree that SC seemed more credible as a thug......I think it's because everyone knows Moore as a nice guy and he was probably just at little too 'GQ' handsome (in TMWTGG) to be seen as a vicious " b".

    Having said that it's one of my favourite performances from him (along with The Man Who Haunted Himself) just because he's playing against type.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondsum wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    This.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Craig & Dalton are equally awesome (if very different in style) actors. I just personally prefer Dalton.
  • Posts: 11,425
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    Totally agree. I have no time for those who belittle Sir Rog. I also find it bizarre that people put Brosnan and Sir Rog in the same category. Sir Rog is so superior.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    In my opinion there are no categories. All 6 have done something unique with their movies.
    Moore and Brosnan are nothing alike.
    The same goes for Connery and Craig.

    The most original may just have been Moore, because he got away with about anything, due to his phenomenal charm and dry humour. He can karate-chop his enemies, ha!
    All other 5 would look stupid trying that :))
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,425
    In my opinion there are no categories. All 6 have done something unique with their movies.
    Moore and Brosnan are nothing alike.
    The same goes for Connery and Craig.

    The most original may just have been Moore, because he got away with about anything, due to his phenomenal charm and dry humour. He can karate-chop his enemies, ha!
    All other 5 would look stupid trying that :))

    I think you may be right. Moore is the actor who arguably most comprehensibly reinvented the character.

    Having said that, there's a lot of humour in the Connery movies, and DAF is arguably camper and more OTT than any of the Moore films.

    I do think Lazenby is seriously underrated as well. It's not total coincidence that OHMSS is one of the best in the series. It is a real shame we never got a proper revenge DAF with Laz and Hunt directing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Moore is a phenomenon. I was one when AVTAK was released so never had the pleasure of seeing him on the big screen during release, but have subsequently seen him in the theatre on a few occasions (unlike the US, who seem to have old Bond's on the big screen at ten a penny, we here in the UK are rarely afforded that chance). Seeing him up there in all his glory on an original print is exhilarating. The guy is the epitome of a film 'star'.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited October 2015 Posts: 1,130
    Getafix wrote: »
    In my opinion there are no categories. All 6 have done something unique with their movies.
    Moore and Brosnan are nothing alike.
    The same goes for Connery and Craig.

    The most original may just have been Moore, because he got away with about anything, due to his phenomenal charm and dry humour. He can karate-chop his enemies, ha!
    All other 5 would look stupid trying that :))

    I think you may be right. Moore is the actor who arguably most comprehensibly reinvented the character.

    Having said that, there's a lot of humour in the Connery movies, and DAF is arguably camper and more OTT than any of the Moore films.

    I do think Lazenby is seriously underrated as well. It's not total coincidence that OHMSS is one of the best in the series. It is a real shame we never got a proper revenge DAF with Laz and Hunt directing.

    I also agree with Moore's case
    All the 6 actors did great stuff in the character but its actually Roger who truly gave the character his very own spin.
    i think he was a little inspired on Lazneby's first part of the film since like Moore has that feel that he hated the violence in those films but Moore spending 7 films in the franchise managed to a very distinctive Bond.

    You see his films and they are the Most different from all of the others. On her Majesty's secret service has a bitt of that Roger Moore campy vibe but Roger Mastered that version of Bond that has never been repeated to the fullest.

    Moore created his very own genre of the Bond movies and i give him lots of credit for that.


  • Posts: 158
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.
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