It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
Being involved with the theme, as I wrote after.
Ah ok :-). Who knows. Perhaps Newman gets more inspired. Just to freshen up your memory, Newman did co-compose the song "Down To Earth" with Peter Gabriel (also sang by Peter Gabriel) for "WALL•E". It got nominated for an Oscar for "Best Original Song". Also, he co-composed for the movie "The Help" the song "The Living Proof" with Mary J. Blige, Harvey Mason, Jr. and Damon Thomas. That one got nominated for a Golden Globe.
So who knows what he's up to with Bond 24. Perhaps this time he brings in some ideas for actual songs as well.
It would seem obvious to me that if you're scoring a Bond you would want to be involved in the theme. Surely that's part of the appeal, to become part of that legacy? I don't care about Oscar or Golden Globe nominations or wins, he could've won a Razzie, it doesn't matter - all I'd like is for the composer to work on the theme and subsequently incorporate it into the score.
I think he means that Newman won't have any input into the title track. It doesn't seem to be part of the way things work any more.
In all honesty @RC7, the same goes for me. But as someone else already mentioned, things have changed during several decades of scoring. I recall that Daniel Craig basically came with the idea of asking Adele (It should not be underestimated how big his creative input is on the Bond films). And that was very early on. Also, for MGM/Sony it is important that the Bond song is rock solid, because that one does the cashing...not the actual movie score. Hence excluding Adele's theme song from Newman's score. Which was also the case with CR and QOS. So Newman can't really be blaimed for that. But perhaps this time around they (Sony, MGM, EON, Wilson/Broccoli/Craig) can include Thomas Newman earlier in the scoring process?
Yes, I think that's why a lot of people see this as being about Newman not wanting or not being very interested in incorporating the Adele/Epworth title theme. He had the opportunity and the time but delegated the job to someone else. The excuse that he had too much else going on elsewhere is him just saying it was forced on him by MGW and he didn't want anything to do with it. I mean, he's basically saying he didn't have time to incorporate the main title them. The theme was already written and all he had to do was do some arrangements with it. Pretty lame if you ask me, and explodes the idea that it wasn't somehow possible to incorporate the title theme more extensively. The truth is he didn't want to. Neither do I really buy that the recording industry has changed so radically that it's no longer possible for the performing artist/songwriter to collaborate with the composer. The fact is that the Adele/Epworth theme is in the film - it was Newman's decision not to use it more extensively. A major missed opportunity, I think, in most people's opinion.
I don't see much evidence in Newman's past work that he works with or collaborates with other artists on much of what he does, apart from of course his own team which is a bit different. I personally feel that is a major drawback if you're going to compose a Bond score. It requires someone who is not only open to collaboration, but positively welcomes it. For me, that's why Arnold is just temperamentally better suited to Bond. And just to get the brick-bats flying, also why Hans Zimmer would be a better choice than Newman. It's one of the reasons George Martin was such a great choice as a replacement for Barry back in the day. Obviously his relationship with McCartney was a little more than a one-off collaboration, but Martin had the mentality of someone who welcomes working with others, and incorporating and reworking their contributions.
You guys would do well to read J Burlingame's book.
T Newman arrived in London in June and spent 5 weeks composing the score- not long at all. The song had been in the works since late 2011 and went through several tweaks before being recorded. From reading the book, the gist I got was the some was recorded before Newman was in full swing composing throughout July.
I'm amazed so many people on here seem to think its completely black & white, that if the composer does not incorporate the song throughout, its his fault!
He has been employed as the composer, not the co-composer to work with someone else or use other composers work. Granted he has to regarding the JBT but for me the truth is the director should have shipped him over when the song was being penned.
Did I once mention Serra? His score for GE is IMO hands down the worst in the entire series.
As far as I'm aware, Arnold has whenever possible sought to work closely on the title and incorporate it into the film. Arnold worked closely with Garbage, Propellorheads, kd Lang and Chris Cornell to incorporate others' contributions into his scores. It might not have always worked out exactly how he wanted, but his approach is much more in the spirit of the Bond musical culture established by Barry. Not sure what the excact details are around Madonna, Crow and Black, and why there was less collaboration with them, but I doubt it was due to any unwillingness on Arnold's part to work with them.
Arnold's collaborations with Lang and Cornell contributed to what I consider to be two of the best title tracks from the past couple of decades.
You're quite correct. I don't see why he has to incorporate musical cues he hasn't written, that's why I'd be really keen for him to take the bull by the horns and work with an artist on the title theme. That way he can weave in melodies he's developing for the main score.
Presto! Spot on @Grunther
I'm pretty sure he meant that Newman doing the theme won't happen.
Fair point. But I still think, even though he hadn't contributed to Adele and Epworth's title song, that it was sour grapes not to embrace it even just a little. It just strikes me as a bit prima donna-ish. Someone hands you what is clearly a rather beautiful little theme, that everyone but you seems to think suits the film really well, and you hand it to some minion to incorporate into the score. Like - 'okay, if it has to go in that's your (MGW's) decision, but I'm not having anything to do with it'.
And yes, the solution does seem to be that composer and title track artist are expressly required to collaborate. Arnold seems to have done precisely what you suggest - and proactively sought out artists to collaborate with. He always seems to have been working on a title track, even if ultimately they've not always been used by the producers/MGM. You have to give him credit, regardless of whether you like the outcome, for actually trying to keep this tradition alive.
You are talking about a scenario where the composer comes in after the song has been done and it so happens GoldenEye is a prime example of that. It's also one of the (rumoured) reasons John Barry was not interested in the Job, because the song was locked down. Maybe Serra's score would have been better if the song had found a way in?
No one complains of Anrold's non-use of DAD and AWTD. Is it because those songs are generally deemed not worthy and Skyfall is?
Technically speaking the song is laced throughout Skyfall... through a cross-pollination of the Bond theme. Because the last 3 Bond title songs are rip-offs of the theme ;)
http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/oscar-nominees-2013-thomas-newmans-score-for-skyfall/
Guys, you are really sweet :-). But @RC7 already cleared it up for me if you read the posts carefully: I don't have Alzheimer just yet :-P.
You can continue to put a negative spin on what's been said in interviews (and sometime ago I felt the same about it) but I will give Newman the benefit of the doubt, especially since after reading the latest edition of The Music of James Bond. Presumably, you hating the score and I embracing it also plays a factor.
I get the comments about it being rather ambient and its so true of many modern cookie cutter scores. I wished it wasn't when I first heard it but there are some nice variations of reused themes that grew on me.
Incidentally, I would not rule out Arnold returning. The book mentions the producers arranged a meeting with Arnold and Mendes took it out of courtesy to them. If its not Newman again, then he is on the radar.
You actually do hear AWTD in "Pursuit at Port au Prince" so kudos to Arnold for still working a not particularly thematic song into his score.
Had Arnold been permitted to write the song for QOS it likely would have incorporated the theme heard in the second half of "Talamone," which he later used for "No Good About Goodbye" with Shirley Bassey.
David Arnold personally ruled out himself, twice, on his own official Twitter page. I think in August and September.
All true, but I don't see why is should be kudos for Arnold but intense heat for Newman's 15 seconds of Skyfall (that he did not refuse). I realise its not you making that accusation though.
It seems that Arnold was permitted to collaborate on a song with Ronson and Winehouse, and as you say the motif is used throughout. Its just another example of what I was saying yesterday - unless all the planets align then.... it just seems difficult (I know, its hard to imagine why) these things don't come off. Why did plan B: AWTD have to be a drastic departure?
If Mendes has anything to do with it, surely Newman will return. I think it really boils down to whether Newman wants to do it or not. If not Newman, I very much doubt that Mendes would turn to Arnold, but we all thought Purvis and Wade were definitely out of the picture and then look what happened.
Bloody hell, I'm so sick of saying this. Like @Some_Kind_Of_Hero said, David Arnold used AWTD in the score.
Maybe they just don't feel he has got a main theme in him (certainly would echo my sentiments), which of course begs the question why they gave him the job in the first place. Oh yes, sure ... Mendes Almighty was working his Bond redefining magic again.
He got the job because he has scored all movies directed by Mendes (except one) and because he is one of the greatest movie composers working today.
Which says a lot about recent times creativity potential. Sometimes I just envy those living in the 60/70s. It must have been great to be surrounded by so much talent alive and not just wannabees!
Well, if you are stuck in the 60s of course you won't get the scores composed by Newman. I mean how can you say that this for example was scored by a wannabe?
God this music makes we want to slash my wrists. Sounds like something from the Irish Tourist Board back catalogue. Just needs Michael Flatley and Enya to round it off. Seriously, this impresses you @PanchitoPistoles? Whenever people post something like this I'm half expecting to have to eat humble pie and then I listen to it and I realise that no, it's actually just more of the same nondesript background muzac he did for SF. Feel free to like it, but I mean this literally could have been composed by any one. Christ some people are easily pleased!