FANTASTILICIOUS FUN FOR FILM FANS 089: your top 10's of 2020 and most anticipated films of 2021?

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  • Posts: 6,396
    Here are two statements:

    1. Violent movies make some people violent.
    2. Violent people sometimes watch violent movies.

    Take a guess at which is the more accurate of the two.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    The Phantom Menace. The best example I can think of.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Is it wrong that I liked Last Action Hero as a kid and still do? :D
    No, it's one of Arnie's best.

    I also used to love Terminal Velocity WAAAY too much. Now I just like one line from it: "..the KG-used-to-B."

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think there is some kind of influence, sometimes, from extreme violence in films or games. It is just hard to pin down; each case is different. What pushes a person over the edge? Surely it is a combination of factors.

    Long coats - I immediately thought of Tombstone, one of my favorite films.
  • @WillyGalore I did mention that they were abused in my post. Like I said, they both came from abusive backgrounds and were obviously messed up as a result and it's not the films fault but it did (or might have) influenced how they did it.

    Didn't they talk about how he was always watching horror films at the trial? Or have I got that wrong was that all just bullshit made up by the tabloids?

    Anyway, the way they killed the kid and the way Chucky died is similar so I wouldn't say it's a weak link (thanks for educating me by the way, didn't know what tenuous meant before I had to look it up after reading your post :P ) at all.

    And either way, I think saying that films (and games) never ever influence crimes (and that anyone who thinks they do is a PC worshipping idiot) is not true. I remember reading about another guy who dressed up as Ghostface to kill someone and then used one of the killings in Scream as a guide. Did the film cause him to do this? No. But again, did the film influence how he did it? Yeah, obviously.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    "Now Sid, don't you blame the movies. Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos more creative!"

    That's my point. The kids that did it were obviously very messed up anyway and it's not the films fault but even though the film didn't cause them to kill him, it still might have influenced how they did it.
    Here are two statements:

    1. Violent movies make some people violent.
    2. Violent people sometimes watch violent movies.

    Take a guess at which is the more accurate of the two.

    Exactly. I'm not saying movies make people violent but sometimes violent people watch violent movies and are influenced by them.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, I get what you are saying, thelivingroyale. I agree there is an influence, on some people, at times. Your final sentence is succinct.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited August 2014 Posts: 14,486
    The Neverending Story. Watched this a couple of years back for the first time since around 1990. Geez, what an annoying film. My memory had preserved it as magical- and I most definitely should've left it that way- but of course curiosity got the better of me, and now the magic is gone.

    Let's see if the sequel is as great as I remember.. haha
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    The Last Starfighter. I remembered it as a kick-a*s film, but I watched it recently, and I found it to be....
    well, actually
    A KICK-A*S FILM!!!! :))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,346
    Honey We Shrunk Ourselves. Loved it as a kid but that has changed. :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    Okay, Damnation Alley. Very cool when I was 16, but real cheesy now. I still like it, but it's not the crazy cool flick it was to me back then.
    Jerry Goldsmith lent it SO much cred....
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited November 2014 Posts: 4,399
    (deleted)
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 6,396
    @WillyGalore I did mention that they were abused in my post. Like I said, they both came from abusive backgrounds and were obviously messed up as a result and it's not the films fault but it did (or might have) influenced how they did it.

    Didn't they talk about how he was always watching horror films at the trial? Or have I got that wrong was that all just BS made up by the tabloids?

    Anyway, the way they killed the kid and the way Chucky died is similar so I wouldn't say it's a weak link (thanks for educating me by the way, didn't know what tenuous meant before I had to look it up after reading your post :P ) at all.

    And either way, I think saying that films (and games) never ever influence crimes (and that anyone who thinks they do is a PC worshipping idiot) is not true. I remember reading about another guy who dressed up as Ghostface to kill someone and then used one of the killings in Scream as a guide. Did the film cause him to do this? No. But again, did the film influence how he did it? Yeah, obviously.

    Yes it was complete BS, whipped up by media frenzy at that time which succeeded in causing mass hysteria against so called "video nasties" and led to Child's Play 3 being banned by the BBFC for a number of years despite the fact that neither Venables or Thompson had seen the film.

    Indeed, Venables confirmed to a child psychologist who interviewed him at the time that he didn't even like horror films. The blue paint incident was purely coincidental and yet certain "journalists" decided to run with the story because we as a society wanted someone or something to blame.

    Unfortunately, people all too take what they read in the red tops, such as The Sun, as being gospel.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    <center><font color=#E9AB17 size=6><b>006</b>
    Foreign films should be subtitled, not dubbed.</font></center>

    Comments? :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2014 Posts: 17,788
    In most cases I agree 100%. Dubbing compromises the actor's performances IMO.
    However, I'd rather have my Anime dubbed, but ONLY if it a great crew doing it.
    And of course, all the Godzilla films must be dubbed; the crazy bad lip-synch is part of the fun!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    Anime is a good point, @chrisisall! I'm usually one of those purists who refuse to accept anything but the original product, but my Akira copy from way back in the early 90s had an English soundtrack which I much prefer to the recent Japanese soundtrack. However, this is perhaps the only exception. I watch all my other anime in Japanese with either English or Dutch subtitles. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2014 Posts: 17,788
    Yeah @DarthDimi, Akira has a really good dub. We're watching Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood (again), and I love the dub; those Aniplex/Funimation voice actors are GREAT!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think both are fine. I prefer subtitles, but I can see where both are valuable.
  • Posts: 6,396
    I'm sometimes really lazy by putting on English subtitles when watching English language films. :D
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    I'm sometimes really lazy by putting on English subtitles when watching English language films. :D

    @WillyGalore, but sometimes the subs and the sound don't match as I've noticed a few times myself. ;-)

  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,081
    @chrisisall Well done, you, for ending the abuse, and you shouldn't feel guilty at all, 14 is still a kid. Be proud of yourself instead.
    I'm sometimes really lazy by putting on English subtitles when watching English language films. :D

    I do that often, but haven't thought of it as "lazy"... :)


    Hell no to dubbing from me. It's horrible. I don't even want to watch animated stuff dubbed (there have been times when I've wanted to watch something on tv, but upon noticing it has been dubbed have not), but when there are actual actors on the screen dubbing just kills any enjoyment for me. I hate, hate, hate dubbing. So definitely subtitles over dubbing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    Tuulia wrote: »
    I don't even want to watch animated stuff dubbed
    Hmmm...technically, since the characters in Anime don't actually possess the voices you hear, isn't it always dubbed? ;)
    :))
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 2014 Posts: 4,492
    RE: 002: What do you prefer? A sci-fi film by Ridley Scott or a historical epos by Ridley Scott?

    Then historical epos should be my anser when i look to the movies i have bought directed by him.

    RE: 004: Opinion: movie violence should not be abolished for public safety.

    Of course that be based on what violence you mean, the moment and who made it.

    RE: 006; Foreign films should be subtitled, not dubbed.

    I have seen animated tv series and Animated movies i have seen as child, where i prefer the Dutch or Dutch/Belgium voices. Also i prefer to say/write Dutch title of some movies or farytales and names.


    I prefer this for example





    But there mabey some movie dubs that i can't remember how there sound and it get re-dub in the 90's whyle i prefer the 70 or 80 or mabey earlier voices made it dificult.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,081
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Tuulia wrote: »
    I don't even want to watch animated stuff dubbed
    Hmmm...technically, since the characters in Anime don't actually possess the voices you hear, isn't it always dubbed? ;)
    :))

    Good point, I guess you're right... Apologies for mixing terminogy used here with the English one. Here animated features and children's movies arrive in theatres as either "original" (original language spoken, and with subtitles) or "dubbed", both usually being available in bigger towns. The movies meant only for people old enough to be expected to be able to read well aren't dubbed here, and thank goodness for that, for so many reasons.

  • Posts: 1,817
    I completely agree. A language is more than a simple code, it represents a culture and sometimes history and society. There are many things than can't be possible translated without a cost, and many times that cost is a joke or a cultural reference.
    I hate when movies are dubbed on tv, all of them should be subtitled. The only exceptions for me are some movies that I watch in Spanish as a kid so I remember the dubbed dialogues, for example Who Framed Rogger Rabbit? But leaving that aside, translation of movies and books entail a great loss.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    An interesting point you make there, @0013! Indeed, books. Now the problem with books is of course that if you think of a translated book as a dubbed film, what's the book equivalent of a subtitled film? :-) I have read books that were originally published in Japanese and French, but I was forced to read them in their English translations because my very limited knowledge of Japanese and French wouldn't have permitted me to make sense of them otherwise.
    That said, I agree that language is more than just a linear sequence of words. And I learned this the hard way. I read all the Flemings as a younger boy but all of them in Dutch. A few years later, I read them in English and discovered so much more in Fleming's writings: dark humour, elegant proze,...
  • Posts: 1,817
    @DarthDimi, I think the book equivalent of a subtitled film could be a book with commentaries or a text written in old language and transliterated in contemporary code. For example, I have Machiavelli's Prince in both old and contemporary Italian. The latter is the subtitled version.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,081
    I don't think it's the same with books at all. I agree that everything cannot be translated exactly and something is often lost, but it's not necessarily "a great loss" if the translation is really good. If one only read books in their original language then a big part of world literature would be beyond the reach of everybody, and that would be a shame.

    Fiction originally written in English I only read in English if at all possible, and I'm grateful for being able to do that, but how about all the other languages, then? I remember I tried reading La Sombra Del Viento in Spanish... you don't necessarily know if you can do something until you try, right? I ended up reading the translated book, instead, and was happy to be able to do that at least. (My local library has Ruíz Zafon's books in 5 languages, actually.)

    ---

    When movies have subtitles you get enough of the conversation translated to understand what's happening (there is normally no time/space to have everything translated, anyway, and some stuff - like many jokes that are a play with words - get inevitably lost), and if you know the language people speak you get to enjoy the full experience. Subtitles can be ignored - dubbing cannot be ignored.

    When movies are dubbed you don't have a choice, it feels weird and actors' voices are just wrong (since they aren't theirs), and the words and mouth movements never fully match, and something is just very obviously off, and frankly creepy to me.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 5,767
    Every film should be shown with an option to watch the original version with subtitles.

    I live in Germany, where it is hard to find cinemas showing original versions. I live in a rather big city with a huge number of cinemas, yet still there are only two or three showing original versions. Of the real action films shot in English language, I´d say 90% have an unsatisfying German dubbing, 60% severely suffer from it, 30% become unwatchable through the dub.

    Fortunately, James Bond films always get excellent German dubs.

    There was a long period during which every black actor who was the least bit funny got a German voice similar to Eddie Murphy´s dub voice. That´s not only dumb and an artistic crime, it´s also borderline racist.

    The German dub voice of Robert DeNiro is so good that a friend of mine once said, "It´s touching how hard DeNiro tries to make his voice sound like his German dub voice."

    With animation films I don´t care so much. Syd from Ice Age sounded even better in German than in English.
    With live action films, many times the ambient sound is destroyed by the dub.

    When DVDs came out, I was eager to watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li movies in original versions, only to find out that they too are sometimes dubbed, because half of the cast was speaking Mandarin, the other half Cantonese.

    When I was in Japan, I enjoyed it very much that no film at the cinema was dubbed. To watch films from all kinds of different countries with subtitles is a bit harder, but it feels also very much alive, and I get a much more suave feeling.


    DarthDimi wrote: »
    An interesting point you make there, @0013! Indeed, books. Now the problem with books is of course that if you think of a translated book as a dubbed film, what's the book equivalent of a subtitled film? :-) I have read books that were originally published in Japanese and French, but I was forced to read them in their English translations because my very limited knowledge of Japanese and French wouldn't have permitted me to make sense of them otherwise.
    That said, I agree that language is more than just a linear sequence of words. And I learned this the hard way. I read all the Flemings as a younger boy but all of them in Dutch. A few years later, I read them in English and discovered so much more in Fleming's writings: dark humour, elegant proze,...
    Oh yes, I remember that clearly myself! I think the current German translations of Fleming´s novels are much better, but in the 80s all you got were some translations from the 50s or 60, which left out 95% of the prose, making the books seem like cheap bad writing, and they sometimes even left out whole passages, either for pc reasons, or out of inability. In Moonraker, the old German translation completely leaves out that Drax´ technicians were all bald-headed, mustached Germans with numbers on the backs of their overalls, which I find an amzingly entertaining chlichée, but must have offended some German officials back then, something which should be unthinkable in a country that calls itself a free democracy.

  • Posts: 2,341
    I prefer reading sub titles to dubbing. Dubbing is too much of a distraction while one can always learn something if one is studying a particular language.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    <center><font color=#E9AB17 size=6><b>007</b>
    Tell us about your very worst theatrical experience ever.</font></center>
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