Skyfall Considered the Most Overated film of all.

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  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I actually can't think of any real flaws in FRWL.

    I don't think there are really any flaws in FRWL or GF. I think Dr No is also near perfect, although it is a bit slow by today's standards (not really a flaw though). The only other film I would place close to this category would be TSWLM. I rate TLD highly but agree that the villains let it down a bit.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Some of the acting in DN is a bit dodgy and the production values obviously aren't as sophisticated as the later films, but even so its a solid thriller with some great scenes.

    GF I've already covered. Many have also mentioned the poor editing towards the end when Bond is trying to diffuse the bomb - something I also remember noticing.
  • Posts: 14,816
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I actually can't think of any real flaws in FRWL.

    Me neither actually, except some small elements that are parts of its charm.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I suppose the whole gunfight at the gypsy camp feels rather dated now.
  • Posts: 12,263
    Sigh... I love being different.
  • Posts: 14,816
    If anything FRWL is underrated, by the general public at least.
  • Posts: 12,263
    I have to disagree; over the past year or so I've seen about an even split of GF beating FRWL and vice versa. I see plenty of praise for FRWL almost everywhere. It's a fine Bond film, but such a slow start...
  • Posts: 14,816
    It is praised by critics, and even then still in the shadow of GF. And the start of FRWL has to be slow. It is one of its strengths, makes it a true thriller.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,568
    I have to agree with @Sandy about this being one man's opinion and because he has the platform to voice his opinions we worry that it now becomes 'fact'.

    Movie opinions are objective beasts, and I pay no attention to 99% of them. Especially when they admit to not liking a particular genre.
    Barry Norman once admitted he 'didn't really like horror films'.
    What?
    Then you sir are no critic.

    A critic should appreciate a great horror movie as much as a great musical as much as a great drama etc.

    So one man thinks Skyfall is overrated. Well...maybe it is. But it's lively and funny and exciting and well acted and it's got Daniel Craig and fine locations and beautiful women. Basically it's a Bond film that doesn't rip us off as TMWTGG did, or insult our intelligence as AVTAK did. And unlike many Bond films it was a 're-watchability' factor.

    But then that's one man's opinion, and I'm not even a critic.
  • Posts: 12,263
    Ludovico wrote:
    It is praised by critics, and even then still in the shadow of GF. And the start of FRWL has to be slow. It is one of its strengths, makes it a true thriller.

    A "true thriller" doesn't have to start slow, just saying.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    NicNac wrote:
    I have to agree with @Sandy about this being one man's opinion and because he has the platform to voice his opinions we worry that it now becomes 'fact'.

    Movie opinions are objective beasts, and I pay no attention to 99% of them. Especially when they admit to not liking a particular genre.
    Barry Norman once admitted he 'didn't really like horror films'.
    What?
    Then you sir are no critic.

    A critic should appreciate a great horror movie as much as a great musical as much as a great drama etc.

    So one man thinks Skyfall is overrated. Well...maybe it is. But it's lively and funny and exciting and well acted and it's got Daniel Craig and fine locations and beautiful women. Basically it's a Bond film that doesn't rip us off as TMWTGG did, or insult our intelligence as AVTAK did. And unlike many Bond films it was a 're-watchability' factor.

    But then that's one man's opinion, and I'm not even a critic.

    I'd probably agree that it's better than TMWTGG.

    I think the point of the article though is to simply point out (as you perhaps acknowledge) that it really isn't quite as good as the critics made out. That's it really isn't it? To me, TLD is still a far more entertaining and satisfying entry in the series. Not the best Bond ever, but very good and widely underrated. So in that light, SF is definitely overrated, yes.

  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I'd probably agree that it's better than TMWTGG.

    Probably??

    In my find it's simply a fact that SF is better. Go back and watch MWTGG again.Some of the second half of that film is horrid, unfunny slapstick.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    GF is certainly in my top 5 but it is somewhat dated shall I say (compared to some of the later entries though its nothing). Connery and Blackman are both great, the first half hour is classic Bond, but to be honest Goldfinger has never really wowed me as a main villain. I actually prefer the silent but deadly Oddjob.

    I think it's the caricature gangsters that stick out for me. That whole "EXCEPT CRIME" speech feels pretty cheesy by today's standards.

    Also lets not forget the wonderful performance by Tilly Masterson:

    "Let me go, you're breaking my back" :))

    I prefer Skyfall by a small margin.

    Respect for having GF in your top 5. I think part of the point about the villains is that Oddjob and Goldfinger compliment each other. I actually love Gert Frobe's performance (even if he was dubbed) and Harold Sakata is brilliantly used. And it's all underpinned by some of the best Ken Adam sets and amazing Barryness. Connery is simply pitch perfect throughout and as you say @BAIN, the pairing with Blackman is inspired. I actually feel sorry for those who think it's overrated.
    Oh, and the REAL DB5...

    Frankly, the list of amazing elements is endless. And the film is still greater than the sum of its parts.

    Pffft. Spare me your condescension. Or, perhaps I should say, I feel sorry for those too obtuse to see through all the unthinking hype that attends GF.

  • Posts: 12,263
    TMWTGG is possibly the most disappointing Bond film. Christopher Lee is an excellent villain and Moore does a fine job of playing Bond here, but it's just bleh in the end. Too much silliness, randomness, and boring sections to be one of the best.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Getafix wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    I have to agree with @Sandy about this being one man's opinion and because he has the platform to voice his opinions we worry that it now becomes 'fact'.

    Movie opinions are objective beasts, and I pay no attention to 99% of them. Especially when they admit to not liking a particular genre.
    Barry Norman once admitted he 'didn't really like horror films'.
    What?
    Then you sir are no critic.

    A critic should appreciate a great horror movie as much as a great musical as much as a great drama etc.

    So one man thinks Skyfall is overrated. Well...maybe it is. But it's lively and funny and exciting and well acted and it's got Daniel Craig and fine locations and beautiful women. Basically it's a Bond film that doesn't rip us off as TMWTGG did, or insult our intelligence as AVTAK did. And unlike many Bond films it was a 're-watchability' factor.

    But then that's one man's opinion, and I'm not even a critic.

    I'd probably agree that it's better than TMWTGG.

    I think the point of the article though is to simply point out (as you perhaps acknowledge) that it really isn't quite as good as the critics made out. That's it really isn't it? To me, TLD is still a far more entertaining and satisfying entry in the series. Not the best Bond ever, but very good and widely underrated. So in that light, SF is definitely overrated, yes.

    Yes. Obviously. And equally obvious--and as NicNac points out--the notion that the critics overrate SF is one man's opinion. And hardly an original one at that. The world of ancient historians is full of egocentric blowhards who devote their entire career to bleating on about how Alexander wasn't really great.

  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    It's in my bottom 3 and has been there for sometime. Lee is great but he can't save this from being a flat, routine and fairly dull film.



    What a hilarious climax. Had me roaring with laughter all the way through. [-( [-( [-(

    To quote a phrase my grandad often uses, anyone who genuinely thinks this film is better needs their head examined.

    Apologies but something just comes over me whenever this film is mentioned.
  • Posts: 6,601
    [quote="GetafixI think the point of the article though is to simply point out (as you perhaps acknowledge) that it really isn't quite as good as the critics made out. That's it really isn't it? To me, TLD is still a far more entertaining and satisfying entry in the series. Not the best Bond ever, but very good and widely underrated. So in that light, SF is definitely overrated, yes.

    [/quote]

    What makes TLD underrated? That you and some others like it better, even though it was a far cry from SF's success? In the end - WHO decides, what's over or underrated?
    I suppose, each one of us on his/her own. But certainly BO is an important factor, because to make it there, you need to bring butts in the seats and that only happens, when word of mouth is good. See, how many films with huge promotion tank. In the end, a film has to succeedon its own merits. No promo in the world can change that.

    So overrated is, when they tell you its good and then you go see it and its not. If that is the consens of many, then its overrated. Otherwise NOT. Because films are made for the audiences, not for the critics.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'd probably agree that it's better than TMWTGG.

    Probably??

    In my find it's simply a fact that SF is better. Go back and watch MWTGG again.Some of the second half of that film is horrid, unfunny slapstick.

    I was understating the case a little. ;) Yes, I agree - it's definitely better. Rog's two first entries are a bit of lowpoint for me. Not a fan of LALD either, although it has entertaining elements. A poor film with a good soundtrack. I think it's the music and theme song that have given it its slightly inflated status.
  • The Living Daylights....I haven't watched that one in years. Can't really sit through it. I remember the scene on the plane when Kara said to Bond that she was a fool and Bond replied that he was too, this guy in the audience said out loud: "OH COME ON!!!!"
  • Posts: 19,339
    The Living Daylights....I haven't watched that one in years. Can't really sit through it. I remember the scene on the plane when Kara said to Bond that she was a fool and Bond replied that he was too, this guy in the audience said out loud: "OH COME ON!!!!"

    Yep,he is a bit of a soppy sod throughout that film,not one of my favourites at all.

  • Posts: 11,425
    barryt007 wrote:
    The Living Daylights....I haven't watched that one in years. Can't really sit through it. I remember the scene on the plane when Kara said to Bond that she was a fool and Bond replied that he was too, this guy in the audience said out loud: "OH COME ON!!!!"

    Yep,he is a bit of a soppy sod throughout that film,not one of my favourites at all.

    Harsh - although he is a bit limp wristed at times. I think these are more than off-set by his moments of steely resolve. The early assassination sequence in Prague is excellent - one of the best in the entire series.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    "You were fantastic, we're free"
    "Kara, we're inside a Russian airbase in the middle of Afghanistan"
    "At least we're together"

    Umm...ok??

    The bit when Dalton smiles at her on the horse carriage I must admit feels a little awkward.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "You were fantastic, we're free"
    "Kara, we're inside a Russian airbase in the middle of Afghanistan"
    "At least we're together"

    The bit when Dalton smiles at her on the horse carriage I must admit feels a little awkward.

    Undeniably one of the most convincing pairings in the entire series. They seem to genuinely hit it off. Kara is sort of in the same vein as Tatiana in FRWL IMO - vulnerable and definitely not 'Bond's equal', but not a total drip or just blatant eye candy either. We need more Bond girls like that.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    I have to agree with @Sandy about this being one man's opinion and because he has the platform to voice his opinions we worry that it now becomes 'fact'.

    Movie opinions are objective beasts, and I pay no attention to 99% of them. Especially when they admit to not liking a particular genre.
    Barry Norman once admitted he 'didn't really like horror films'.
    What?
    Then you sir are no critic.

    A critic should appreciate a great horror movie as much as a great musical as much as a great drama etc.

    So one man thinks Skyfall is overrated. Well...maybe it is. But it's lively and funny and exciting and well acted and it's got Daniel Craig and fine locations and beautiful women. Basically it's a Bond film that doesn't rip us off as TMWTGG did, or insult our intelligence as AVTAK did. And unlike many Bond films it was a 're-watchability' factor.

    But then that's one man's opinion, and I'm not even a critic.

    I'd probably agree that it's better than TMWTGG.

    I think the point of the article though is to simply point out (as you perhaps acknowledge) that it really isn't quite as good as the critics made out. That's it really isn't it? To me, TLD is still a far more entertaining and satisfying entry in the series. Not the best Bond ever, but very good and widely underrated. So in that light, SF is definitely overrated, yes.

    Yes. Obviously. And equally obvious--and as NicNac points out--the notion that the critics overrate SF is one man's opinion. And hardly an original one at that. The world of ancient historians is full of egocentric blowhards who devote their entire career to bleating on about how Alexander wasn't really great.

    Bloody historians! All they do is argue, argue, argue... Won't catch me doing that.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I like Kara, nice girl and probably someone if fall for in real life, but I think for a Bond girl she's was a bit puppy-like at times. Though her and Dalton certainly had some nice scenes together.
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    I enjoy TLD alot. But, SF took me into some good feelings. I got so invested I forgot I was watching a movie at some points. That's best praise I can give a film.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 19,339
    "Dont think....just let it happen"........

    "Its 'beautiful,in Afghan".......

    Pass me the sick-bucket...in English.....
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Getafix wrote:
    Undeniably one of the most convincing pairings in the entire series. They seem to genuinely hit it off.
    Agreed. Sometimes they may come off as sappy or nerdy or whatever else people may complain about but this only reinforces the fact that they are perfect for each other.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    @barryt007.

    Haha. Dalton was in theatre mode a bit there.

    Still Barry. I've never heard you complain about the equally sappy "I have no armour left" dialogue from CR.
  • Posts: 11,425
    barryt007 wrote:
    "Dont think....just let it happen"........

    "Its 'beautiful,in Afghan".......

    Pass me the sick-bucket...in English.....

    I get where you're coming from, although all I can say is that you must have a heart of stone not to be touched by true romance Maryam and Tim brought to the screen. Some of the dialogue in CR definitely rivals TLD though for vomit worthyness - as @BAIN points out. I think the thing is that at the end of the day, the actors in both movies make it so convincing that you're won over any way. Makes a nice change from the usual unconvincing romance in most Bond movies. I think only Laz and Diana came close in OHMSS and they despised each other... so perhaps they deserve the most credit.
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