How would you fix "The Man With Golden Gun" ?

edited August 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 686
I saw "The Man With Golden Gun" the other day (uncut, commercial free on EPIXHD) and thought that will a few changes it would have been better, maybe one of the best. I don't want to get into a row over Moore-Bond and his place in Bond history, I would like to focus more on the movie.

Issues to consider, but not limited to:

1. Scaramanga's fun house - I would have nixed that. I thought it was too silly. I actually liked the how events unfolded in the novel in the last chapters.

2. Mary Goodnight - I would not have made her a ditsy blond. She was sweet in the novel, I would have made more "normal". I would have kept her in the bikini though.

3. Asia as a location - I am sure they had to come up with something different from the novel since LALD took place in the Caribbean and the original novel took place in Jamaica. I had no problems with an Asian location.

4. The Golden Gun - I had no problem an assemblable, modular 4.2mm weapon. I wonder if the idea of a specialized weapon came about from "The Day of Jackal".

5. Enter the Dragon motif - I wonder if this minor theme came from the Kung Fu movie fad at the beginning of the 70s. I thought the fighting cousins were amusing. I would not expect this in the Bond era post Moore, especially today.

6. Sheriff Pepper - I would have nixed him.

7. Christopher Lee was great as Scaramanga. No complaints.
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Comments

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    #2 certainly was the biggest bane of the movie. The karate references weren't really needed either, although the girls beating up Hi Fat's students I also found to be amusing. Only in a Moore film. The rest I can live with, and I particularly appreciated the fun house finale. Shoehorning in J.W to suddenly appear in Thailand and run into Bond was farfetched, but since I love J.W and Clifton James...and it was more welcome than the return of Jaws which made even less sense.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 512
    Have Scaramanga be more villainous in the movie, I mean for the first half Bond is in no genuine danger simply cos Scara is oblivious to him; he's not the one who sent the bullet, Maud Adams did. I'd prefer to see him on a mission to take out various statesmen around the globe, with Bond in pursuit, sometimes foiling him, sometimes not, a bit like In the Line of Fire. Have Peter Hunt direct, so it feels a bit like Gold.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,564
    I'd have written out Goodnight entirely and let Bond rescue Andrea from Scaramanga's clutches, making her the main Bond girl of this film. Of course, then we'd have to re-cast the title role in Octopussy, as Maud Adams wouldn't have been available for that film anymore...
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 418
    I'd have made Mary Goodnight more of a serious Bond girl and less klutsy.

    TMWTGG is also one of my least favourite songs in the entire series, so i'd change that aswell, possibly have a more oriental sounding theme song to go with the locations..

    I'd have kept Sherriff Pepper for 'Live and Let Die' alone, and not had him in this film..

    I would have prefered Maud Adams to have a bigger role..

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Are my eyes deceiving me or have two separate members actually stated that they found the kung fu fighting girls 'amusing'?

    Did I miss a memo where someone redefined the word amusing as: a travesty, more embarrassing than the double take pigeon, pissing all over Ian Flemings grave?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    Go back to the novel, rewrite the script pretty much from scratch. Keep Moore, the MI6 crew, Lee and Adams, but throw the rest out. The song and the score are perfectly al right IMO but the loop whistle must be removed from existence, swallowed by a black hole or incinerated in the fires of hell. Pepper turns into salt and is thrown back into the see. Mary Goodnight's IQ gets boosted by 500 %. No karate, no sumo wrestlers. No-one drinks phuyack. David Hedison appears as Leiter. No third nipple. Solex? Forget it. A car with wings? Not in your lifetime.

    Furthermore, the film takes two years to get made, not one. People actually pay attention to detail, primarily in the script, before taking a dump on one of Fleming's most underrated novels. When you substitute oak with toilet paper, you know it's time to pause a few years. I know that's not exactly how it happened but at least the break was much needed. The holes in the cheese had become so big even a mouse would get agoraphobia in it. Fortunately I wasn't born yet at the time, for even an avid Bond fan like myself might have seriously doubted that James Bond had any future at all after this film.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,432
    Without making a complete massacre of the movie, a decent narrative would be a big improvement. Also always hated the fact the ending was a retread of the pre title sequence. It was a rushed lazy movie, though think Moore had some good moments, Barrys score probably his weakest, a bit of a mixed bag. The fact the last third of the movie hinges on the incompetence of Mary Goodnight to push the plot forward, does not help.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    Also always hated the fact the ending was a retread of the pre title sequence.

    That may be one of the very few things I actually like about the film. ;-) You see I have a thing for symmetry. If we end the film on the same beats it started with, I'm intrigued. Can they pull it off? I find that part at least done rather well in TMWTGG. And Barry has a lot of fun introducing slight subtleties to differ between both funhouse sequences.

  • Posts: 6,432
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Also always hated the fact the ending was a retread of the pre title sequence.

    That may be one of the very few things I actually like about the film. ;-) You see I have a thing for symmetry. If we end the film on the same beats it started with, I'm intrigued. Can they pull it off? I find that part at least done rather well in TMWTGG. And Barry has a lot of fun introducing slight subtleties to differ between both funhouse sequences.

    Did not work for me, felt the revisit to the fun house at the end of the movie lacked imagination. I understand what you mean with regards to symmetry, just felt on this occasion was not done particularly well.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    @fire_and_ice, just a question for you, friend? Did you enjoy the clown suit symmetry in OP? :-) Another case of Bond film symmetry I'm actually fond of.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Are my eyes deceiving me or have two separate members actually stated that they found the kung fu fighting girls 'amusing'?

    Did I miss a memo where someone redefined the word amusing as: a travesty, more embarrassing than the double take pigeon, pissing all over Ian Flemings grave?

    Well, you think Lazenby is great, which I find much more amusing...the pigeon is far less excusable.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,432
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @fire_and_ice, just a question for you, friend? Did you enjoy the clown suit symmetry in OP? :-) Another case of Bond film symmetry I'm actually fond of.

    I did, watched OP again a few weeks ago, Moore really carries the scene of well. Its quite dramatic from Moore to the point you forget he is dressed as a clown when deactivating the nuclear device. Though also a symmetry in the tone of the scenes with the 00's dressed as clowns. The more intense scenes in that movie were very good i thought, the humour... no comment :-)
  • Posts: 6,396
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @fire_and_ice, just a question for you, friend? Did you enjoy the clown suit symmetry in OP? :-) Another case of Bond film symmetry I'm actually fond of.

    I did, watched OP again a few weeks ago, Moore really carries the scene of well. Its quite dramatic from Moore to the point you forget he is dressed as a clown when deactivating the nuclear device. Though also a symmetry in the tone of the scenes with the 00's dressed as clowns. The more intense scenes in that movie were very good i thought, the humour... no comment :-)

    I think many people get distracted by Rog in the clown suit but it's actually a really good sequence and the suspense leading up to the defusal of the bomb is terrific. I love how he delivers the line "let me go damnit, there's a bomb in there!"
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Are my eyes deceiving me or have two separate members actually stated that they found the kung fu fighting girls 'amusing'?

    Did I miss a memo where someone redefined the word amusing as: a travesty, more embarrassing than the double take pigeon, pissing all over Ian Flemings grave?

    Well, you think Lazenby is great, which I find much more amusing...the pigeon is far less excusable.

    So are you seriously saying that the kung fu schoolgirls and the double take pigeon are better than Lazenby?

    If so you show yourself up as really not knowing anything about James Bond at all.
    You may not like Laz but have some respect.
  • Posts: 14,799
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Also always hated the fact the ending was a retread of the pre title sequence.

    That may be one of the very few things I actually like about the film. ;-) You see I have a thing for symmetry. If we end the film on the same beats it started with, I'm intrigued. Can they pull it off? I find that part at least done rather well in TMWTGG. And Barry has a lot of fun introducing slight subtleties to differ between both funhouse sequences.

    I agree with you. I thought both the duel between Bond and Scaramanga and the PTS were the best parts of the film. In a revisited TMWTGG, that should be kept. And keep Andrea, she is a great tragic Bond girl.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Are my eyes deceiving me or have two separate members actually stated that they found the kung fu fighting girls 'amusing'?

    Did I miss a memo where someone redefined the word amusing as: a travesty, more embarrassing than the double take pigeon, pissing all over Ian Flemings grave?

    Well, you think Lazenby is great, which I find much more amusing...the pigeon is far less excusable.

    So are you seriously saying that the kung fu schoolgirls and the double take pigeon are better than Lazenby?

    If so you show yourself up as really not knowing anything about James Bond at all.
    You may not like Laz but have some respect.

    I love pulling your chain, Wiz, are you ever gullible and thin-skinned when it comes to George.

    So what if I find those two schoolgirls beating up a school full of boys amusing? Should I not like J.W too? I'd prefer the whole karate thing wasn't there as I've stated, but it is and while campy and cartoonish I've seen far worse in the form of Jaws and MR in general. Sorry that my sense of humor doesn't meet your standards.


  • edited August 2013 Posts: 686
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @fire_and_ice, just a question for you, friend? Did you enjoy the clown suit symmetry in OP? :-) Another case of Bond film symmetry I'm actually fond of.

    I did, watched OP again a few weeks ago, Moore really carries the scene of well. Its quite dramatic from Moore to the point you forget he is dressed as a clown when deactivating the nuclear device. Though also a symmetry in the tone of the scenes with the 00's dressed as clowns. The more intense scenes in that movie were very good i thought, the humour... no comment :-)

    I think OP is one of the best Bond movies and the clown/circus theme is rooted in Fleming.
    Ludovico wrote:
    @I agree with you. I thought both the duel between Bond and Scaramanga and the PTS were the best parts of the film. In a revisited TMWTGG, that should be kept. And keep Andrea, she is a great tragic Bond girl.

    I thought there were similarities between Andrea and Simone Latrelle from Live and Let Die.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Go back to the novel, rewrite the script pretty much from scratch. Keep Moore, the MI6 crew, Lee and Adams, but throw the rest out. The song and the score are perfectly al right IMO but the loop whistle must be removed from existence, swallowed by a black hole or incinerated in the fires of hell. Pepper turns into salt and is thrown back into the see. Mary Goodnight's IQ gets boosted by 500 %. No karate, no sumo wrestlers. No-one drinks phuyack. David Hedison appears as Leiter. No third nipple. Solex? Forget it. A car with wings? Not in your lifetime.

    Furthermore, the film takes two years to get made, not one. People actually pay attention to detail, primarily in the script, before taking a dump on one of Fleming's most underrated novels. When you substitute oak with toilet paper, you know it's time to pause a few years. I know that's not exactly how it happened but at least the break was much needed. The holes in the cheese had become so big even a mouse would get agoraphobia in it. Fortunately I wasn't born yet at the time, for even an avid Bond fan like myself might have seriously doubted that James Bond had any future at all after this film.

    Great post. I also think Lee was too old to play Scaramanga. The sad thing is that after 1969 Eon seemed to not care about the source novels beyond superficial locations and names.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,432
    Perdogg wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @fire_and_ice, just a question for you, friend? Did you enjoy the clown suit symmetry in OP? :-) Another case of Bond film symmetry I'm actually fond of.

    I did, watched OP again a few weeks ago, Moore really carries the scene of well. Its quite dramatic from Moore to the point you forget he is dressed as a clown when deactivating the nuclear device. Though also a symmetry in the tone of the scenes with the 00's dressed as clowns. The more intense scenes in that movie were very good i thought, the humour... no comment :-)

    I think OP is one of the best Bond movies and the clown/circus theme is rooted in Fleming.
    Ludovico wrote:
    @I agree with you. I thought both the duel between Bond and Scaramanga and the PTS were the best parts of the film. In a revisited TMWTGG, that should be kept. And keep Andrea, she is a great tragic Bond girl.

    I thought there were similarities between Andrea and Simone Latrelle from Live and Let Die.

    I think if OP had jettisoned the silliness and had a more hard edge tone it would have been up there with the best. That was Glenn allover lookin at his movies, he really did do some very good stuff in his movies. There was equally some terrible humour at times, that undermined some really good work. Though its easy to argue that the shift in tone makes the more dramatic scenes work better, though the Tarzen cry and saying sit to a tiger is inexcusable :-)
  • Posts: 135
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Fortunately I wasn't born yet at the time, for even an avid Bond fan like myself might have seriously doubted that James Bond had any future at all after this film.
    I also was not born; thus I am agreed; completely.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I love the TMWTGG but I know it is flawed and has it's duff moments. I suppose the only major thing I would change is have the film purley about Scaramanga out to get Bond instead of the whole Solex thing.
  • Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.
  • Posts: 169
    sromgrom wrote:
    Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.

    Since Scaramanga's golden gun only fires one bullet, any shoot-out with 007 wouldn't last very long.
  • Dr_Yes wrote:
    sromgrom wrote:
    Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.

    Since Scaramanga's golden gun only fires one bullet, any shoot-out with 007 wouldn't last very long.

    Ah, but he only needs one bullet :)

  • Posts: 6,396
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    sromgrom wrote:
    Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.

    Since Scaramanga's golden gun only fires one bullet, any shoot-out with 007 wouldn't last very long.

    Ah, but he only needs one bullet :)

    Yes because one golden shot means another poor victim has come to a glittering end! ;-)
  • Dr_Yes wrote:
    sromgrom wrote:
    Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.

    Since Scaramanga's golden gun only fires one bullet, any shoot-out with 007 wouldn't last very long.

    Ah, but he only needs one bullet :)

    Yes because one golden shot means another poor victim has come to a glittering end! ;-)

    Some of us know these movies all too well, don't we :)

  • Posts: 6,396
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    sromgrom wrote:
    Make the ending not so flat. I don't think we ever got to see Bond truly in a fun shoot out with Scaramanga.

    Since Scaramanga's golden gun only fires one bullet, any shoot-out with 007 wouldn't last very long.

    Ah, but he only needs one bullet :)

    Yes because one golden shot means another poor victim has come to a glittering end! ;-)

    Some of us know these movies all too well, don't we :)

    It's not knowing the films too well that embarrasses me, it's knowing all the lyrics to Lulu! ;-)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    "To Sir With Love" it isn't! One of my all time favorites, and so quintessentially English. I love how the old lady tells off that old guy when he gets American xenophobic. Good on her!

    You have a good point Willy. I know them all by heart too. Does that make us super fans or geeks :))

  • Posts: 6,396
    Perhaps a little bit of both. Geek Chic I think it's called ;-)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited August 2013 Posts: 13,350
    Another thing that must be done to improve this mess. Ditch the solar energy sub-plot. The only good thing to come out of that was the death of Gibson.

    Also, speed the pace up. The Man With The Golden Gun is a very slow film.
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