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SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RogueAgent wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    MGW and Babs won't abandon Quantum. Whether you like them or not? They are established and will be explored and improved i'm sure. The mistake they made with JANUS was they stated straight away that Trevelyan was its head. Therefore it could not be used again. They will use them again and hopefully get quality villains played by quality actors/actresses to improve there profile.

    So I am not the only one thinking it was the mistake with GE and the whole Brosnan era: failing to create a recurring enemy. Trevelyan could have easily been the commander in the field of Janus while the head of the organisation would have returned in a subsequent movie. With obviously some changes, TWINE could have easily been a follow up on GE (and maybe a better movie).

    I see where you're coming from but I guess, particularly during the Brosnan era, they were aware that the stability they had in the earlier films and the 80's (with Glen) had all but disappeared. It was obvious that they would be changing up Directors from film to film and they only really settled on P+W with TWINE (which may not have lasted).

    For that reason alone I think it's difficult to create a story element, be it an organisation or a specific character and expect future director's to step in and continue the through line. I mean, even the cutting of QoS by Forster was an admission that the then future director of Bond 23 may not want to resolve the issue of Quantum. This isn't to say Quantum won't return but unless writers and directors are locked in for multiple pictures I think it's hard to incorporate this level of continuity. The spectre of old was a cartoon cut-out to all extents, they never really nailed the wealth of detail Fleming had instilled in the organisation through his novels. The kind of detail that I believe would have to be incorporated to really grab a modern cinema audience.

    Basically, the pictures can't work like they did back in the day. They'd have to put some real work into making Quantum, Spectre, whoever, relevant and exciting for the audience. The simple fact that Quantum made little impact in QoS was reason enough for them to break away. All that being said, the character has to come first, the organisation and scheme second. If they can combine the two then they could be on to something great. In my personal opinion reviving Quantum just because they happen to have been established in previous films is not reason enough to bring them back. If it doesn't work, leave it and move on. If they have a great way to bring it back with a bang then I'm all for it.

    Although you make very good points RC7, the logic applies to Spectre and Blofeld surely? As this thread suggests it doesn't matter what Bond24 is? The villain HAS to be Blofeld? Makes no sense to me? Also you here Craigs Bond is a reboot, new timeline......etc. Then Blofeld will not appear in the Craig era. Especially seeing as the next one will be his 4th of 5. Why reintroduce an iconic charactor so late in a tenure? If they do it? It will happen with a new Bond.

    @RogueAgent, forgive me if I'm mistaken but I think we're in agreement. It might have been the way I'd written it (when I mention the detail of SPECTRE in the novel I'm implying it's applicable to Quantum, SPECTRE, any organisation not that they should resurrect SPECTRE necessarily) but I wasn't suggesting Blofeld is ideal, I was stating that using Quantum or Blofeld and SPECTRE have the same pitfalls for me. My logic applies equally to both.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    RC7 wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    MGW and Babs won't abandon Quantum. Whether you like them or not? They are established and will be explored and improved i'm sure. The mistake they made with JANUS was they stated straight away that Trevelyan was its head. Therefore it could not be used again. They will use them again and hopefully get quality villains played by quality actors/actresses to improve there profile.

    So I am not the only one thinking it was the mistake with GE and the whole Brosnan era: failing to create a recurring enemy. Trevelyan could have easily been the commander in the field of Janus while the head of the organisation would have returned in a subsequent movie. With obviously some changes, TWINE could have easily been a follow up on GE (and maybe a better movie).

    I see where you're coming from but I guess, particularly during the Brosnan era, they were aware that the stability they had in the earlier films and the 80's (with Glen) had all but disappeared. It was obvious that they would be changing up Directors from film to film and they only really settled on P+W with TWINE (which may not have lasted).

    For that reason alone I think it's difficult to create a story element, be it an organisation or a specific character and expect future director's to step in and continue the through line. I mean, even the cutting of QoS by Forster was an admission that the then future director of Bond 23 may not want to resolve the issue of Quantum. This isn't to say Quantum won't return but unless writers and directors are locked in for multiple pictures I think it's hard to incorporate this level of continuity. The spectre of old was a cartoon cut-out to all extents, they never really nailed the wealth of detail Fleming had instilled in the organisation through his novels. The kind of detail that I believe would have to be incorporated to really grab a modern cinema audience.

    Basically, the pictures can't work like they did back in the day. They'd have to put some real work into making Quantum, Spectre, whoever, relevant and exciting for the audience. The simple fact that Quantum made little impact in QoS was reason enough for them to break away. All that being said, the character has to come first, the organisation and scheme second. If they can combine the two then they could be on to something great. In my personal opinion reviving Quantum just because they happen to have been established in previous films is not reason enough to bring them back. If it doesn't work, leave it and move on. If they have a great way to bring it back with a bang then I'm all for it.

    Although you make very good points RC7, the logic applies to Spectre and Blofeld surely? As this thread suggests it doesn't matter what Bond24 is? The villain HAS to be Blofeld? Makes no sense to me? Also you here Craigs Bond is a reboot, new timeline......etc. Then Blofeld will not appear in the Craig era. Especially seeing as the next one will be his 4th of 5. Why reintroduce an iconic charactor so late in a tenure? If they do it? It will happen with a new Bond.

    @RogueAgent, forgive me if I'm mistaken but I think we're in agreement. It might have been the way I'd written it (when I mention the detail of SPECTRE in the novel I'm implying it's applicable to Quantum, SPECTRE, any organisation not that they should resurrect SPECTRE necessarily) but I wasn't suggesting Blofeld is ideal, I was stating that using Quantum or Blofeld and SPECTRE have the same pitfalls for me. My logic applies equally to both.

    No need to apologise, It just always makes laugh when i see stuff that slates Quantum, yet Spectre is ideal? They are both criminal organisations so lets deal with the current one i reckon! But i do agree too that it has to be a plausible, relevant story.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    RC7 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    MGW and Babs won't abandon Quantum. Whether you like them or not? They are established and will be explored and improved i'm sure. The mistake they made with JANUS was they stated straight away that Trevelyan was its head. Therefore it could not be used again. They will use them again and hopefully get quality villains played by quality actors/actresses to improve there profile.

    So I am not the only one thinking it was the mistake with GE and the whole Brosnan era: failing to create a recurring enemy. Trevelyan could have easily been the commander in the field of Janus while the head of the organisation would have returned in a subsequent movie. With obviously some changes, TWINE could have easily been a follow up on GE (and maybe a better movie).

    I see where you're coming from but I guess, particularly during the Brosnan era, they were aware that the stability they had in the earlier films and the 80's (with Glen) had all but disappeared. It was obvious that they would be changing up Directors from film to film and they only really settled on P+W with TWINE (which may not have lasted).

    For that reason alone I think it's difficult to create a story element, be it an organisation or a specific character and expect future director's to step in and continue the through line. I mean, even the cutting of QoS by Forster was an admission that the then future director of Bond 23 may not want to resolve the issue of Quantum. This isn't to say Quantum won't return but unless writers and directors are locked in for multiple pictures I think it's hard to incorporate this level of continuity. The spectre of old was a cartoon cut-out to all extents, they never really nailed the wealth of detail Fleming had instilled in the organisation through his novels. The kind of detail that I believe would have to be incorporated to really grab a modern cinema audience.

    Basically, the pictures can't work like they did back in the day. They'd have to put some real work into making Quantum, Spectre, whoever, relevant and exciting for the audience. The simple fact that Quantum made little impact in QoS was reason enough for them to break away. All that being said, the character has to come first, the organisation and scheme second. If they can combine the two then they could be on to something great. In my personal opinion reviving Quantum just because they happen to have been established in previous films is not reason enough to bring them back. If it doesn't work, leave it and move on. If they have a great way to bring it back with a bang then I'm all for it.

    I see there are obstacles, but they could be overcome. We will need the similar team for more than one Bond movie, obviously. And by this I mean same scriptwriter, same director, etc.
  • inukai44inukai44
    Posts: 25
    If Blofeld was the villian for Bond 24 the teaser poster could be this

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514280899_b86949ccc1_z.jpg
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    inukai44 wrote:
    If Blofeld was the villian for Bond 24 the teaser poster could be this

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514280899_b86949ccc1_z.jpg

    We have a thread for that..
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4602/bond-24-fan-arts/p1
  • Quantum07Quantum07
    Posts: 135
    I would love, love, love to see a Quantum centered plot for Bond 24 with all of the featured Quantum members referring to their leader as "the Director" of Quantum:

    "The Director will be hearing about this."
    "I might not frighten you, but the Director is on his way here now"
    "You can't protect me from the Director, James, no one can."

    Maybe throw in a scene with the Director of Quantum, but not show his face. It would be very important to make him ominous and feared by those who know him to help build his character. Then at the very end of the film, Bond is able to hack into a computer before the building blows up and retrieve one name: "Blofeld"
  • renno61renno61
    Posts: 157
    i think theres a good chance of Blofeld being in next movie,simply because of the final scene in skyfall.the whole scene echos back to the early bonds,moneypenny office,through the padded door,the desk with painting behind it and the handing over of the top secret file. if blofeld is in i would like Christoph Waltz to play the part.
  • inukai44inukai44
    Posts: 25
    I Can see the teaser being a fake news report talking about a terrorist attack and then it shows James in a car chase with the new Aston Martin vanquish and another vehicle comes out of nowhere ramming his car and causing him to spin out and hit a stone pillar in a tunnel it then skips to a chair facing away from a desk and a voice says "pleased to make your acquaintance Mr.Bond" and the chair turns but the trailer cuts to black and the tag line appears with the 007 logo under it would be a cool trailer. I think they should reinvent him but keep something as an nod to the old blofeld probably the white Persian cat

  • Quantum07Quantum07
    Posts: 135
    My life would be complete if EON could get Daniel Day Lewis to sign on as Blofeld in Bond 24. Preferably a scarless version of Blofeld with hair...
    daniel-day-lewis-sally-field-golden-globes-2013-13.jpg

    Maybe replace his persian kitty with an ocelot!
    cute-ocelot.jpeg
  • ElliotCarverElliotCarver
    Posts: 249
    If Blofeld is coming back, I would love to see Benedict Cumberbatch play him, as a truly intelligent villain. I'm not sure if I would like him to be bald though.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    He should not return in the Craig era! Day Lewis would be a great choice for a villain though!
  • renno61renno61
    Posts: 157
    All depends on how your want Blofeld to be played action villian or mastermind type villian Christoph Waltz ,Joaquin Phoenix,helen mirren does not have to be a man ?
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    edited January 2013 Posts: 5,745
    RogueAgent wrote:
    He should not return in the Craig era! Day Lewis would be a great choice for a villain though!

    He did make a quip about Craig and the Olympic Opening at the Golden Globes.. so maybe that was a hint that they are in talks ;)


    PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.
  • Quantum07Quantum07
    edited January 2013 Posts: 135
    If EON could get Daniel Day Lewis to sign on as Blofeld in Bond 24.
    RogueAgent wrote:
    He should not return in the Craig era! Day Lewis would be a great choice for a villain though!

    So riddle me this:

    Would you be totally happy if Daniel Day Lewis played a villain named Bluefield, a "behind the scenes" type villain who was perhaps the head of a terrorist organization like Quantum, and maybe had a pet cat (or ocelot)? In this hypothetical scenario, the writers do an excellent job with the character and Day Lewis acts the hell out the role (obviously).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    If they ever have Blofeld again, I hope they make him closer to the books. If a Bond movie with Blofeld was released tomorrow morning, I would say have Ciaran Hinds for a TB Blofeld or Gary Lewis for a OHMSS/YOLT Blofeld. Or a European actor in his late 40s/early 50s.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I have mentioned Daniel Day Lewis before. Great actor to play a sophisticated yet psychotic villain like Blofeld. A villain like Silva, but who's less in the field. Another great option, and a total hot moneymaker now in the Tarantino films, Christoph Waltz.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,280
    Hi everyone. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but Barbara Broccoli made it clear when she visited a film school once for a Q&A with Marc Forster and panel: in the age of Dr. Evil, it is very difficult to bring back a credible Blofeld. And with the Quantum storyline still open it would create too many lose ends for DC's Bond. Mike Meyers has been trying to bring back his parody character, so it may dilute the effects of any new Blofeld on the spot if he returns in the next couple of years.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    Hi everyone. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but Barbara Broccoli made it clear when she visited a film school once for a Q&A with Marc Forster and panel: in the age of Dr. Evil, it is very difficult to bring back a credible Blofeld. And with the Quantum storyline still open it would create too many lose ends for DC's Bond. Mike Meyers has been trying to bring back his parody character, so it may dilute the effects of any new Blofeld on the spot if he returns in the next couple of years.

    Maybe, but after 'Skyfall' I do have the feeling Barbara and Michael know how to re-introduce not only the franchise, but also many other famous elements of classic Bond films, like Q and Moneypenny. Hence Ralph Fiennes as the new 'M' with almost a Bernard Lee-ish charm. That makes it a whole lot easier to re-introduce Blofeld.

    Als 'The Dark Knight' showed us how you can re-introduce an iconic villain. And Ledger's Joker was way more psychotic and realistic, certainly not cheesy Dr. Evil-ish.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    Hi everyone. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but Barbara Broccoli made it clear when she visited a film school once for a Q&A with Marc Forster and panel: in the age of Dr. Evil, it is very difficult to bring back a credible Blofeld. And with the Quantum storyline still open it would create too many lose ends for DC's Bond. Mike Meyers has been trying to bring back his parody character, so it may dilute the effects of any new Blofeld on the spot if he returns in the next couple of years.

    If they use the characteristics that have been parodied yes, that would be a problem. But the average moviegoer does not even know the bald guy with the cat is named Blofeld. All they know is that there was a Bond villain with a scar, a cat, etc. If they model Blofeld from the novels, the connection will be as obvious as between the Bane of Batman & Robin and the one in The Dark Knight Rises[/i].
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote:
    Hi everyone. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but Barbara Broccoli made it clear when she visited a film school once for a Q&A with Marc Forster and panel: in the age of Dr. Evil, it is very difficult to bring back a credible Blofeld. And with the Quantum storyline still open it would create too many lose ends for DC's Bond. Mike Meyers has been trying to bring back his parody character, so it may dilute the effects of any new Blofeld on the spot if he returns in the next couple of years.

    Maybe, but after 'Skyfall' I do have the feeling Barbara and Michael know how to re-introduce not only the franchise, but also many other famous elements of classic Bond films, like Q and Moneypenny. Hence Ralph Fiennes as the new 'M' with almost a Bernard Lee-ish charm. That makes it a whole lot easier to re-introduce Blofeld.

    Als 'The Dark Knight' showed us how you can re-introduce an iconic villain. And Ledger's Joker was way more psychotic and realistic, certainly not cheesy Dr. Evil-ish.

    After CR and SF, I'd like to see a Bond movie that doesn't have an introduction of a major character at the end.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    For those who think Blofeld will not work because it has been spoofed by Mike Myers, do you think anybody noticed Bane in Batman and Robin?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Ludovico wrote:
    For those who think Blofeld will not work because it has been spoofed by Mike Myers, do you think anybody noticed Bane in Batman and Robin?

    Bane is a secondary villain.

    Babs is on record that Mike Myers makes using Blofeld more difficult.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited January 2013 Posts: 14,824
    echo wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    For those who think Blofeld will not work because it has been spoofed by Mike Myers, do you think anybody noticed Bane in Batman and Robin?

    Bane is a secondary villain.

    Babs is on record that Mike Myers makes using Blofeld more difficult.

    Bane was not the secondary villain in The Dark Knight Rises. He was in B&R, however. I know Barb said this, but again it is presuming that Blofeld would be akin to the 60s one, with some or all of the spoofed characteristics.

    And let's not forget what Naomie Harris said publicly about Eve not being Moneypenny. Barb could be leading us on.
  • Quantum07Quantum07
    edited January 2013 Posts: 135
    RogueAgent seems to not want to respond, so I'll open up this question to all those who think Blofeld should not be reintroduced in the Craig era:

    Would you be totally happy if Daniel Day Lewis played a villain named Bluefield, a "behind the scenes" type villain who was perhaps the head of a terrorist organization like Quantum, and maybe had a pet cat? In this hypothetical scenario, the writers do an excellent job with the character and Day Lewis acts the hell out the role (obviously).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited January 2013 Posts: 14,824
    Quantum07 wrote:
    RogueAgent seems to not want to respond, so I'll open up this question to all those who think Blofeld should not be reintroduced in the Craig era:

    Would you be totally happy if Daniel Day Lewis played a villain named Bluefield, a "behind the scenes" type villain who was perhaps the head of a terrorist organization like Quantum, and maybe had a pet cat? In this hypothetical scenario, the writers do an excellent job with the character and Day Lewis acts the hell out the role (obviously).

    I think Blofeld should be reintroduced, but I wouldn't be happy with this hypothetical scenario, except maybe the casting of Lewis. If they keep the cat, why change the name? And why keep the cat if it has been spoofed to death and it you want to refresh the character? What Joe Public remembers of Blofeld is not the name, it is the cat, the scar, etc. Make Blofeld like the novels's Blofeld and he will be like a completely original character. He will be a completely new character, in a way.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Look, assuming EoN have the rights to use the character hr can be brought back, irrespective of what Babs said in the past and whatever spoof crimes Austin Powers has committed. Part of the appeal of this so-called reboot is, certain characters can be reintroduced and reinterpreted. Hell, look at the obvious differences of the Blofeld from FRWL compared to the Blofeld of DAF. This is the 21st Century with an emphasis on a more tonally serious approach to making Bond films. Blofeld will not be reintroduced as some maniacal, cross dressing, clown cliche.
  • Quantum07Quantum07
    Posts: 135
    Ludovico wrote:

    I think Blofeld should be reintroduced, but I wouldn't be happy with this hypothetical scenario, except maybe the casting of Lewis. If they keep the cat, why change the name? And why keep the cat if it has been spoofed to death and it you want to refresh the character? What Joe Public remembers of Blofeld is not the name, it is the cat, the scar, etc. Make Blofeld like the novels's Blofeld and he will be like a completely original character. He will be a completely new character, in a way.

    The point that I was trying to make being that it seems that most of the anti-blofeld members on here seem to only have a problem with the name Blofeld. I modern villain that is essentially a reinterpretation seems to be fine as long as he has a different name. I think that the name Blofeld means nothing to the audience of today and I'm all for a him returning.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote:
    Quantum07 wrote:
    RogueAgent seems to not want to respond, so I'll open up this question to all those who think Blofeld should not be reintroduced in the Craig era:

    Would you be totally happy if Daniel Day Lewis played a villain named Bluefield, a "behind the scenes" type villain who was perhaps the head of a terrorist organization like Quantum, and maybe had a pet cat? In this hypothetical scenario, the writers do an excellent job with the character and Day Lewis acts the hell out the role (obviously).

    I think Blofeld should be reintroduced, but I wouldn't be happy with this hypothetical scenario, except maybe the casting of Lewis. If they keep the cat, why change the name? And why keep the cat if it has been spoofed to death and it you want to refresh the character? What Joe Public remembers of Blofeld is not the name, it is the cat, the scar, etc. Make Blofeld like the novels's Blofeld and he will be like a completely original character. He will be a completely new character, in a way.

    Like I said, I think the Bond producers now know how to re-introduce certain famous beloved characters into today's political environment. I'm not worried about that. 'Skyfall' has proven that to us.

    Concerning the cheesiness of Bond. Come on, let's face it that certain minor aspects of Bond villains will always remain a bit larger-than-life. If we would introduce just a copy of Julian Assange into 'Skyfall' that would have been boring. Instead, we got a similar character, but with more larger-than-life aspects. Silva caressing Bond's body and legs in a homo-erotical way, Silva removing his artificial jaw, Silva killing people like a crazy devil, Silva with his blond hairs, Silva telling the story of the two rats (reminds me of Blofeld telling the story of the two Siamese fighting fish in FRWL), Silva's foreplay on Severine's eventual death......that's typical Bond.

    Expect something similar again in Bond 24. And there's no better moment to re-introduce Blofeld and SPECTRE in a similar way. Actually, I think James Bond 24 should be entirely about how this new crime syndicate is shaping up....in the shadows, without MI6 knowing it.

    I was thinking of a pre-credits sequence without Bond in it, but that is entirely dedicated to the rise of a revived QUANTUM/SPECTRE, when QUANTUM's secret meetings during public opera attendings got revealed by 007. A short introduction story in which we follow one operative of a new revived SPECTRE.

    Remember, certain pre-credits sequences where without James Bond at all, like FRWL, LALD and TMWTGG. It hasn't been done in a long time. And I think that could work for Bond 24.

    Concerning the actors, I love either Daniel Day Lewis, Christoph Waltz or Philip Seymour-Hoffman. And perhaps in such a way that we don't see his face during the entire movie. But it would be more gritty, Tarantino-esque, if we actually see in closer detail how a killer animal destroys an unfaitful SPECTRE-operative. Then at the end of this pre-credits sequence we only see Blofeld's shoes/legs. He's standing and watching while a SPECTRE operative is completely torned apart by a shark.

    You need to bring in a bit more horror to make such a scene look less cheesy. And I think that can work perfectly :-).

    Also, I think John Logan had the idea of using Blofeld in the first screenplay of 'Skyfall', but the revisiting story of 'Skyfall' was already in place. John Logan's rewrite made Silva look way more psychotic, menacing and diabolic. For Bond 24 he can now go all the way :-).

    Bring. In. Blofeld! :-D
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Christopher Eccleston.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    @Gustav makes some great points. As for casting, Daniel Day-Lewis would be great but with a potential directorial second go round for Mendes, I'd be overjoyed if Michael Shannon got the gig.
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