Brosnan pre-title sequences

edited January 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 36
I know a lot of people don't appreciate the Brosnan era. Too routine, not hard-edged enough, Pierce can't act etc. etc. etc. Personally I think his time was about 50/50. GE and TND were great but TWINE and DAD are both low on my list. But I think most people would agree that his PT sequences were great. Even a very disliked film like DAD with its opening surfing, meeting Moon/Graves, the hovercraft chase and eventual capture and torture is all pretty cool. I know some people object to the CGI plane sequence in GE and the TWINE boat chase eventually gets absurd, but I prefer all four of Brosnan's openings to the ones in both QOS and SF. So do those of you who hate Pierce's films enjoy these openings or do you simply hate EVERYTHING about these movies?
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Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,644
    I don't hate the Brosnan Bonds. GE happens to be my favourite Bond film and it features, IMO, a very strong PTS, despite some incredulous - borderline illogical elements. Both the TND and TWINE PTS rank high in my book, to the point in fact where I consider the PTS in TWINE a better segment than TWINE itself. The DAD PTS, by contract, is something I don't like altogether. Loud and messy, cobbled up from tons of clichés, it is fortunately followed up by a stronger first part of the actual film.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,715
    I know a lot of people don't appreciate the Brosnan era. Too routine, not hard-edged enough, Pierce can't act etc. etc. etc. Personally I think his time was about 50/50. GE and TND were great but TWINE and DAD are both low on my list. But I think most people would agree that his PT sequences were great. Even a very disliked film like DAD with its opening surfing, meeting Moon/Graves, the hovercraft chase and eventual capture and torture is all pretty cool. I know some people object to the CGI plane sequence in GE and the TWINE boat chase eventually gets absurd, but I prefer all four of Brosnan's openings to the ones in both QOS and SF. So do those of you who hate Pierce's films enjoy these openings or do you simply hate EVERYTHING about these movies?

    I don't hate Brosnan's bond - I feel similar to you - TND is my favourite. GE is good. The other two I can live without. But I think his PTS's are particularly strong - TWINE's is very good. DAD's is ok. GE and TND both very good. But none are better than SF! That is an awesome opening sequence.
  • Posts: 4,746
    The Brosnan era pre-title sequences are THE BEST pre-title sequences of all Bond movies. Hands down, no questions asked. GoldenEye and The World is not Enough have the greatest pre-title sequences of all, with Tomorrow Never Dies and Die Another Day coming up right behind them.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    The Brosnan era is such an underappreciated era

    and i agree all the pre-titlesequences (Goldeneye especially) are generally awesome
    the pre-sequence for Die Another Day is actually one of the highlights of its story (the hoverboard chase with its music is really andrenaline pumping)
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Sorry to come in and piss on the kumbaya parade, but the Brosnan PTS' are among THE WORST in the series. Considerably.

    TWINE's is the best, no question, even with that stupid underwater tie straightening bit. 14 minutes of terrific action. Every other one they screwed up somehow or other. I'd put TND second best, but there is the plane scene where Brozzer ejects his unwanted passenger with a cord wrapped around his neck. Because of poor editing, we never see him get loose, so why doesn't his head come off? Some of the dialogue is poorly written as well. DAD is just a mess of poor acting and too many bullets, landmines, and flame throwers. And that GE PTS is the biggest offender of them all from this era, which is a shame because it hurts the movie and the new Bond. First you introduce your new Bond hanging upside down in the crapper, that's terrible right there, no sense of class nor style. Other parts are pretty good but the escape defied all sense of reality. All these Russians shooting at an unprotected Bond outside and not one hits the mark? Impossible. And then it really goes down the crapper. There is no way he could catch the plane and pull it out of that nosedive, it's even more physically impossible that what was done in MR, where at least you could at least mount the defense that Moore and Jaws had time. You would have to be a mental midget of the highest order to buy into these 3 PTS sequences, because Bond movies should always be grounded in reality and if you don't understand these points, you don't understand the philosophy of the series.

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,175
    I must admit, while I like the boat chase (the David Arnold music is great) but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's - despite going from the bottom of a dam to the top of a mountain with no explination.

    I know its a little detail but I like the way Campbell shoots the scuffle between Bond and the pilot on the runway.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,175
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

    Because it has one of the best opening stunts in the series and I like the first close up of Brosnan (after he's punched the guard out on the bog).

    Personally I've never had a problem with that whole "toilet intro" either.

    (I'd actually take Brozza's "forgot to knock" line over Laz's "this never happened to the other fella"* line too).

    *one of the few Bond lines that really does make me wince
  • Posts: 229
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

    Because it has one of the best opening stunts in the series and I like the first close up of Brosnan (after he's punched the guard out on the bog).

    Personally I've never had a problem with that whole "toilet intro" either.
    The bad CGI and the unimpressive Brosnan trying to catch the plane ? it's what you call "best" ?
    :O
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,175
    maxcraig wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

    Because it has one of the best opening stunts in the series and I like the first close up of Brosnan (after he's punched the guard out on the bog).

    Personally I've never had a problem with that whole "toilet intro" either.
    The bad CGI and the unimpressive Brosnan trying to catch the plane ? it's what you call "best" ?
    :O

    Yeah! (out of his era anyway)

    Besides the dodgy CG is NOTHING compared to what would come in his later installments.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    Goldeneye is the best film. However TND has the best pre-title.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,175
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    Goldeneye is the best film. However TND has the best pre-title.

    I like the editing during the take off in that scene (the shots of Brosnan's focused face against the Bond theme is great). I also like the dialogue between Dench and Palmer...but I think its undermined slightly by some blatant stunt doubling in a couple of shots (when Bond jumps off the truck).
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like the editing during the take off in that scene (the shots of Brosnan's focused face against the Bond theme is great). I also like the dialogue between Dench and Palmer...but I think its undermined slightly by some blatant stunt doubling in a couple of shots (when Bond jumps off the truck).

    I even think that the dialogue between Dench and Palmer is great. The way he looks after realizing how good Bond is as agent it's just rewardable.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

    Because it has one of the best opening stunts in the series and I like the first close up of Brosnan (after he's punched the guard out on the bog).

    Personally I've never had a problem with that whole "toilet intro" either.

    (I'd actually take Brozza's "forgot to knock" line over Laz's "this never happened to the other fella"* line too).

    *one of the few Bond lines that really does make me wince

    I'll agree that the bungee stunt was excellent, that part of the PTS doesn't bother me. Most of it is good. But that toilet scene and what happens after he escaped to the outside of Arkangel really is the drizzling s***s, and in that upside down position I have trouble believing in that one punch KO.

    I love George's line there, and felt it was one of the better deliveries he had in the entire film, a nice sense of both humor and irony came across. Don't have a problem with Brosnan's line either, just the premise of it all. He should have just dropped down, delivered the shot, and then the punch line.





  • The best pre-title sequence of the entire franchise was The World Is Not Enough - fact

    Biggest and longest :-S - of the whole James Bond releases, and of course Brosnan was Bond for that one

    Goldeneye was very good, except for the asinine free fall 'plane bit where Bond manages to escape an impossible situation and fly away, Ok, it's only a fictitious movie, but it was stupid. But no real complaint for the rest of it, although Bond hadn't seemed to have aged nine years after the incident, when we see him after the title sequences

    Tomorrow Never Dies, at the russian arms fair, is one of the highlights of that years release. A very well done and suspenseful bit, but it's a real pity about the rest of the subsequent movie itself

    Die Another Day - see the above. But it's a very good watch with the hovercrafts in Korea and Bond 'saved by the bell' etc. But things quickly went downhill as soon as the theme music began to play that year
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,175
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I must admit, I like the boat chase. The David Arnold music is great but if you look closely the continuety is all over the place.

    Personally I think GE is the best of the Brozza PTS's.

    I'm curious as to how you can rationally defend this POV.

    Because it has one of the best opening stunts in the series and I like the first close up of Brosnan (after he's punched the guard out on the bog).

    Personally I've never had a problem with that whole "toilet intro" either.

    (I'd actually take Brozza's "forgot to knock" line over Laz's "this never happened to the other fella"* line too).

    *one of the few Bond lines that really does make me wince

    I'll agree that the bungee stunt was excellent, that part of the PTS doesn't bother me. Most of it is good. But that toilet scene and what happens after he escaped to the outside of Arkangel really is the drizzling s***s, and in that upside down position I have trouble believing in that one punch KO.

    I love George's line there, and felt it was one of the better deliveries he had in the entire film, a nice sense of both humor and irony came across. Don't have a problem with Brosnan's line either, just the premise of it all. He should have just dropped down, delivered the shot, and then the punch line.

    OHMSS is great but I just don't like that line. I find it really...cheesey. Its like when Brosnan said "you were expecting someone else?" in the GE trailer...except its actually in the final film.
  • Got to agree with the above - imho, TWINE's PTS has yet to be topped. Even as much as I enjoyed SF, TWINE still does it for me, it's just epic, the Bilbao escape, the exploding money the speed boat and the hot air balloon, Q - a real bang for your buck!
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2013 Posts: 3,895
    For what it is worth, Brosnan and DC mixed up pretitle:

    1. The World Is Not Enough
    2. Goldeneye
    3. Tomorrow Never Dies
    4. Skyfall
    5. Quantum Of Solace
    6. Die Another Day
    7. Casino Royale
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    The trouble with TWINE's PTS is that the boat chase was actually part of the main movie (and originally a bit longer) and the original PTS finished after the getaway from the Banker's office.
    Favourite Brosnan PTS (and movie) is TND.
  • Posts: 266
    I like Brosnan's PTS in all his films but there is something in each one apart from TND which i could live without, in GE it is the free fall into the plane, i think it would've worked better if he just got into the plane before it went over the cliff and pulled it away to safety. In TWINE it is the straightening of his tie underwater, it is a cheap gag which i liked at the time but as i've got older i think it dont work, plus when he fires the missles from the front of his boat he fires the same one twice. And in DAD the blue/green screen on the fight on the hovercraft doesn't look as good as i would like and it takes me out of the situation (little did i know that these effects would be some of the best in the film when i first saw it). But please dont get me wrong i like all the PTS bits from the Brosnan era and i like Brosnan too.
  • I like the Brosnan PTS' very much. Even DAD, a film I don't really like, I think has a strong PTS.

    GEs has a few plot holes and one very unrealistic moment but it's still great and entertaining. The bungee jump and the shot before it are great, I thought Brosnan beating up the guy having a crap was funny, and the battle in the facility was really good. I'm still not sure how 006 survived that bullet to the head but it sets up the film nicely and Brosnan sliding back on the conveyer belt spraying machine gun fire just looks cool. Plane stunt was a bit naff but I can forgive that because of what came before it.

    TNDs is good too. The filthy habit line is funny and the action is good, some of the plane stuff is pretty impressive (the way they fly over eachother like that). It's also fairly tense and it works as a mini Bond movie (which I like).

    TWINE has the best one of the Brosnan era and might be the best PTS of the series. The whole bit in the bankers office is good and Brosnan leaping out of the window, sliding down then casually walking off is another one of those moments where he just looks really cool. The boat chase is great, I could've lived without the tie straightening but there's enough there (the police getting drenched, smashing through the restaurant, the corckscrew jump, etc), to make me forgive it. Then we have the final bit on the balloon which sets Renard up as a threatening villian and Bond just managing to hang onto the dome, etc. Epic.

    DADs is pretty cool. Does it make sense why they're surfing, no. But it's an impressive stunt. Then there's a cool moment where Brosnan nicks the guys shades and does a cocky grin, Moon unloading on the punch bag then letting a guy fall out, etc. The meeting is pretty tense when Moon finds out who Bond is, and the hovercraft chase is good. Then we have Bond actually failing and getting captured, something I don't think has been in a PTS before.
  • Posts: 13,655
    I don't hate the Brosnan era, but I am disappointed by it and I find it often weak and frustrating. I say I don't hate the era, but I despise DAD completely.

    That said, yes, the PTS were rather good, minus a few flaws. GE and TND were overall solid. TWINE was overlong, it should have ended way before, when Bond leaves the banker's office (and maybe with a glimpse of Renard, as it was supposed to happen or so I have read). The boat chase was good, but it belonged to the main movie, not the PTS.
  • I am one of the Brosnan detractors as some may already know, but I'll say this much. I don't care for the PTS in TND, save for the "backseat driver" line. Nor do I care for the one from DAD (it's all over the place and way too sloopy). The one from GE is strong, amidst its absurd nature.

    However, the PTS from TWINE is outstanding in my opinion. It is one of the best in the series. It sets up the whole movie perfectly, and I agree with @DarthDimi in that it's better than the actual film that follows it.
  • Posts: 1,492
    AThe problems with the brosnans films occurred after the pts'. Some even reached the heady heights of almost enjoyability.
  • PTS in TWINE is one of my favourites of the entire series. One of the longest also.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 153
    The good thing about Brosnan's PTS is aside from being cool, they all have a connection to the film's story, and not just some 10-minute appetizer that doesn't have anything to do with the film; we already have a gunbarrel sequence to thrill us at the start.

    GE, TND, and TWINE feature some of the coolest stunts in Bond history and. Never mind if the CG is bad, like the plane-catching thing in GE. CG doesn't belong in Bond films anyway. And CG made DAD's PTS look like garbage. CG made the entirety of DAD garbage.
  • Posts: 1,308
    Interesting: I really dislike TWINEs opening sequence. The action feel staid and Stagey and is appallingly pedestrian in the way it's shot, like all the action in the film. (the ski sequence feels like watching the mens downhill skiing rather than an immersive chase like in Ohmss)

    You can also see the camera boom and numerous crew members in the shot where the cigar girls boat crashes into the wharf.

    Speaking of which wtf is she parked outside MI6 for, in a boat, to fire a few rounds off then try to escape on a huge yacht. To what end?

    The whole " I can protect you" scene. First she tries to escape in a boat fully 30 miles in land, then the slowest form of transport ever divised. Those cgi helicopters look like mechanno.

    Shoddy.

    TND is a great mix of tension and fun, DAD is pretty good, and GE sets up the back story, introduces a new Bond, the villain, and one of cinemas greatest stunts inside 10 mins. Great!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    . I'd put TND second best, but there is the plane scene where Brozzer ejects his unwanted passenger with a cord wrapped around his neck. Because of poor editing, we never see him get loose, so why doesn't his head come off?

    Well, last time I was trying to strangle a dude in the forward seat of a fighter jet, that pilot ALSO pulled the ejection release, and the feeling of the explosive bolts igniting RIGHT UNDER MY ASS distracted me something fierce, and caused me to lose my grip on the cord a bit... ;)
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,675
    You would have to be a mental midget of the highest order to buy into these 3 PTS sequences, because Bond movies should always be grounded in reality and if you don't understand these points, you don't understand the philosophy of the series.

    Yep, I buy into a PTS that doesn't completely show the bad guy losing his grip on a cord so I'm an idiot. I think you're clutching at straws with that one.

    And what's wrong with DADs? There are lots of bullets flying round, and? CR had the embassy scene where Bond isn't hit at all and his human shield is only hit once, in YOLT and TSWLM, there's a big battle going on around him but nobody ever hits Bond, in GE he's not hit once in the archives, etc.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    The PTS during the Brosnan years were something fierce. The intro of DAD is really growing on me and it's such a shame Purvis and Wade dropped the ball concerning the rest of the film... Anyway, all of the Broz's intros were great, but I think I like GE the least because it's full of gaffs and the "stunt" at the end is appallingly stupid.

    PS- Hooray for my 100th post!
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