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If Dalton do another Bond film, I don't think it would've warmed the people to him still, especially if looking at how the critics viewed him in negative light.
Brosnan managed to brought the great blend of Connery's suave and Moore's sophistication.
If LTK had no Bond going rogue and departing too much from the formula or followed the same pattern as TLD, I think it would've done well, as James Bond already has a name, people back then were just alienated to see Bond gone rogue and brutal, which was a first at the time, just like people getting shocked with Bond getting married and having a dramatic ending in OHMSS.
Insofar as it's all hypothetical, who knows? My suspicion is that's very unlikely though, even if Dalton had returned after the six years. Again, Bond had been around for a while, and a change in direction for Dalton's era would have looked very similar to the GE we got in all likelihood - the story, when it would have come out etc. If framed as Bond's triumphant return I think it could have been successful. As successful as the GE we got? No, not necessarily (although not necessarily not either), and ultimately this would be such a different timeline it's tricky to say where it would have gone from there. But as much as it was a critical time for Bond, and they made the right choices to ensure its success, I don't think Dalton himself would have tanked the franchise (critics were quite harsh on new Bonds anyway at that time, probably because they still had Connery at the back of their mind. Moore had a fair bit of criticism in his early films from them too).
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have. I think he was good enough an actor, and they seemed to work out how to play to his strengths and depict his Bond.
Oh, I highly doubt a more formulaic film would have done any better, at least in itself. Again, look at Bond's reputation at the time (this was in the midst of the action movie era of the 80s, and it's understandable to see why questions about Bond's relevancy were asked, not dissimilar to how people questioned Bond's relevancy during the stretch of the Craig era where we got MI films and other big franchises supposedly 'outshining' the franchise. And obviously look at where we are now). Look at the films LTK went against that year (honestly, it's kind of an extraordinary situation. Not dissimilar to the films OHMSS went up against in '69 in its own way).
The more revenge driven, brutal take on a Bond adventure was arguably even a way of trying to maximise success at that time. There's definitely a Die Hard/Lethal Weapon element to it, and much like OHMSS there's no reason why a 'different' Bond adventure like that couldn't have worked. I think as is the case with these things it comes down to a number of factors, and only a certain amount has anything to do with the film itself (another reason I've seen cited is that the marketing wasn't as strong for this film as it could have been).
That said, this film made money. It didn't flop. It's certainly not an embarrassment of a film either.
To quote Cubby also "No Bond .movie ever lost money!" Who knows about GE , the money men sounded like they weren't going to bankroll another Bond film with Dalton, I prefer to believe the story Dalton only wanted to come back for One, and Cubby wanted him to do several! I certainly dont believe the series would have ended if he came back, that's just nonsense. Bond always did well in Europe, and I think he could well have carried on! To end, it is satisfying to see him and his two films reappraised , and he was ahead of his time, with Craig was getting lauded for what Dalton was trying to do with the character, make him more human!
What does that have to do with this thread?
When you think about it the writers did retread a lot of GF into this script. Mad industrialist is cheating at a game. Mad Industrialist wants his wealth to grow while controlling something. Though in the case of microchips they can be made everywhere, while gold has finite supply.
There is a good story in here, but it needs a complete re-write. The other elephant in the room was bringing back Moore for one more adventure but pretending he was the same Bond. I think if you are bringing back Moore there was a chance to do something interesting with the age of Bond against the youth of Zorin. Bond constantly using his wits to get him out of sticky situations and Zorin using technology and "new methods" of destruction. That would make this better. Instead of Moore's age being a weakness, we lean in and use it as a story component.
Good post. A TV critic at the time of release summed AVTAK up pretty well when he said it felt like the producers said "Come on, guys, time to make another Bond movie" and that's how it felt, especially after everything that went into OP in competing with NSNA two years prior.
The adherence to the 2-year release schedule and the changing action film genre at the time were other challenges as Rambo: First Blood 2 was the go-to film as both were released at the same time. MGM/UA and Cubby were going on reputation by this point and you can't fault them, just having the aging Moore against the peak-conditioned Stallone was glaring.
@SIS_HQ ...I'm just seeing this, so sorry for late response...Uhm, I didn't say Dalton would have ended the franchise should he have done a third James Bond film.
I said, in North America, audiences didn't connect with him at the time, and same with a very large swath of the critics, and I posted the criticism he received back in the day.
To be clear, I also said, I loved Dalton, and to add, I was, frankly, very unhappy when Brosnan took over, although I stand by the belief that Brozza was the right man for the role at that time. He wasn't my cup of tea, but he certainly was for the worldwide audiences. And that's what matters.
But no, i didn't say Dalton would have ended the series if he did a third Bond. Nothing like that at all.
I'd ask when you quote someone, you make sure you're not putting words in their mouth.
Thanks! 👍
I really like the intro song, but that is essentially it.
AVTAK arrived around the time of Temple of Doom and Gremlins and the controversy of the PG-13 rating in the US, so it was destined to be a bit darker.
Dalton was my favorite Bond, until Craig. That being said, I don't think he was ever going to escape the spectre of Brosnan losing the role. (Ironically, Brosnan had to endure his own cycle of rejection from the Broccolis in 1986 and again in 2002.)
I think we were destined for a darker, more violent LTK of some sort, even with Brosnan in the role. That was the general vibe around the Lethal Weapon years. Even Batman '89 is rather dark.
OP and TLD are the Bond aberrations of the '80s. The rest are all tonally alike. Or maybe Glen just preferred alternating light and dark Bonds.
I can imagine that version of the film coming across a bit more like GE. Still has that heavy dose of violence, but with more humour and larger than life characters/scenarios.
True but for the most part the humour was on the dark or sarcastic side. It wasn't Riggs yelling sit to a wild animal or McClane telling a snake to hiss off.
The humour in Lethal and Die Hard was more in line with "He got the point" Or "All those feathers and he still can't fly." Although that last one has some cheese to it. LOL!
Was Cubby overcautious?
He didn't hire Brosnan because of Remington Steele.
It's worse, he was fired!
Oh I can't be bothered.
Subtle story, and I have no doubt I'm missing details. But that's it ;) For anyone on these forums who doesn't fully know! Not entirely sure what this has to do with a hypothetical LTK though to be honest...