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Gunbarrel music ranking game

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    Posts: 7,128
    Sorry for the delay in presenting the results! I've actually had the spreadsheet ready for a while, but I wanted to double check everything was in order before posting, and before I could do that, this rather busy, but very productive and exciting week, got in the way, leaving me little mental energy to dedicate to this game.

    Anyway, time to begin revealing the ranking. You'll find that, since 10 votes isn't that much, we have run into a few ties.

    Our lowest-ranked gunbarrel music is Number 21...

    SKYFALL



    The highest ranking it achieved was 6th place, and the lowest ranking was 25th place. In fact, apart from that 6th place, all the other participants ranked this gunbarrel music between the 22nd and 25th place. Not a lot of love for this one!

    Converting the ranking to a score, Skyfall scored a total of 39 points.

    I ranked it 23rd. It's a very cool arrangement of the Bond theme, but I don't like the fact it's the B-section we hear, instead of the typical guitar part. The fact the music is tracked from Casino Royale, instead of being a new recording, is another negative.

    What do you think? Time to share your thoughts!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2023 Posts: 17,926
    It’s a nice piece arrangement of the music, but I think I ranked it low just because it’s not really a gunbarrel piece of music as such; it’s more of a bit of the Bond theme which happens to be playing whilst the gunbarrel is shown!
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,517
    Agreed. The music isn’t the problem, I just wish there had been a new arrangement.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,224
    #23 for me as well. The more upbeat cue was most likely chosen to celebrate the franchise's 50th anniversary, but I'm neither a fan of the arrangement, nor do I find the cue fitting as gunbarrel music.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,467
    Exactly my thoughts. It's just the end title music slapped on the gunbarrel sequence. I ranked it dead last.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,664
    I ranked SF last as well.

    I blame Mendes.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    Aw, as I say, I don't think it's bad, I was more just judging them on being gunbarrels in the more standard sense, so I'm afraid I may have ranked Dr No similarly low, even though it's not its fault!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,128
    For me, this would have been a better way to musically structure the end of the film. (Without tracking the music from Goldfinger, of course.)

    I just find it more exciting.




    echo wrote: »
    I ranked SF last as well.

    I blame Mendes.
    :))
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,664
    I love it with the GF music!
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 113
    Thanks for putting this list together @mattjoes and for all the number crunching.

    I ranked this 24/25 simply because it's tracked from Casino Royale. I don't actually object to the 'bebop' section of the James Bond theme being used for the gun barrel sequence.

    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.

    As an aside, it's so nice to see so many people active in the music section of the forum. It's been really quiet here of late!
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 113
    Also @mattjoes have you deliberately timed it so that the winner is revealed on Christmas Day? :D
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    Posts: 7,128
    You're welcome.

    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.
    I watched the documentary sometime ago but had forgotten about that! Something like that also happened with the track titled Breadcrumbs. In the film, the opening brass chords recorded by Newman were replaced with the corresponding bit from The Name's Bond...James Bond, from Casino Royale, because the Arnold version clearly sounded better-- more full-bodied and powerful.

    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    As an aside, it's so nice to see so many people active in the music section of the forum. It's been really quiet here of late!
    Agreed.

    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    Also @mattjoes have you deliberately timed it so that the winner is revealed on Christmas Day? :D
    Haha! Good thinking, but no, I'm actually going to see how much time I leave between each ranking reveal. I think it depends on how much discussion takes place.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    I initially thought Thomas Newman was quite lazy lifting David Arnold's arrangement until I saw the Sound Of 007 documentary where he admitted that he tried his own version, but couldn't best it.
    I watched the documentary sometime ago but had forgotten about that! Something like that also happened with the track titled Breadcrumbs. In the film, the opening brass chords recorded by Newman were replaced with the corresponding bit from The Name's Bond...James Bond, from Casino Royale, because the Arnold version clearly sounded better-- more full-bodied and powerful.

    I think isn't it also that Newman didn't write that piece anyway? It's a big, fast-moving production so they have to get orchestrators to some cues for them, and stuff like that would be the first you'd give to someone else to do because the Bond theme is already written- they just have to make it fit. Like Newman didn't write the casino arrival cue because it's just Adele's tune.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    Posts: 7,128
    Let's reveal Number 20 in this ranking game...

    CASINO ROYALE



    The highest ranking it achieved was 1st place, and the lowest was 25th place. Apart from that 1st place, it received a 12th and a 15th place, with all other voters ranking it between the 21st and 25th places.

    Casino Royale scored a total of 67 points.

    I ranked it 24th. Once again, great music, but it just can't beat the excitement of the Bond theme!

    What do you think?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    Yeah, again for me, I think it's a brilliant sequence and reimagining of the gunbarrel, and it delivers a real punch in the film and I can't really fault it; but this is a list for me of comparing the more standard gunbarrels to each other. So the unusual ones which don't quite conform fall towards the bottom of the list, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're any good.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,224
    I ranked it #15 and only because I include the first couple of notes of YKMN, otherwise it would have ended near the very bottom.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,517
    My ranking was #12 for much of the same reasons as above.
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 113
    So this for me was last place, simply because it's essentially one high note in the violins. I didn't count the first few notes of YKMN.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,467
    So far my list reads the same as the general one, this one also came penultimate for me.

    Just the first notes of the title song. As gunbarrel music, difficult to put any higher.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,128
    Let's go for another reveal. Number 19 is...

    NO TIME TO DIE



    The highest ranking it achieved was 10th place, and the lowest was 22nd place. A couple of voters gave it 10th and 11th places, with the rest of voters ranking it quite closely, between 17th and 22nd place.

    No Time to Die scored a total of 80 points.

    I ranked it 21st. My low ranking is explained partly because I prefer my gunbarrels when they feature the riff of the Bond theme, which this one doesn't (having said that, for me, the NTTD gunbarrel still beats another gunbarrel that does feature the riff, but which I feel is a bit bland). I also ranked NTTD quite low because I feel it doesn't do something new with the Bond theme, except using the guitar, in its traditional Bondian sound, to play the chromatic vamp-- a good idea, for sure, but not that interesting.

    The opening string chords reprised from Spectre are still pretty great, though.

    What about you? Where does NTTD fit in the pantheon of gunbarrel music for you?
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,517
    19 in my rankings too. I was just hoping for Zimmer to deliver something entirely unique, but to me it sounded more like Newman composing again.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,128
    Yeah, it's a shame, considering most other first-time composers put their own stamp on the gunbarrel music, while Zimmer ended up following the Newman template so closely. Some edgy synths, powerful drums... please, anything to make the arrangement more distinctive. Even an urgent, sixteenth-note bass line played on synths would have been cool. Or segmenting the notes of the chromatic vamp like John Barry used to do in his Moore and Dalton gunbarrels. It's been ages since the films went for that-- not since Barry himself, in fact. It's been so long that it would be refreshing to go back to it today.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    I can't remember where I put this, but I agree that I tend to prefer the ones with the riff (so most of Arnold's end up quite low for me) so I think it probably was fairly low down. Newman's Spectre one I think is a bit more interesting as I quite like all of the slow bleeding in of the vamp over the logos, but this is just the same again.

    Funny really, I don't like it when they just repeat what came before, as with this one, but I like it when they repeat what came before, with the riff and all that! :D
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,467
    I am usually fond of one-time composers giving their unique spin on the Bond theme, and indeed the score to a Bond film as a whole.

    Regretfully, for me, Zimmer does neither, plays it fairly safe and does a journeyman's job without much uniqueness to it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,664
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I am usually fond of one-time composers giving their unique spin on the Bond theme, and indeed the score to a Bond film as a whole.

    Regretfully, for me, Zimmer does neither, plays it fairly safe and does a journeyman's job without much uniqueness to it.

    This, exactly.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    Posts: 7,128
    The Bond theme arrangement from the OST track titled Back to MI6 displays a bit more originality, what with the heavy drums and the dissonant synth intro. Of course, had they gone for something like that for the gunbarrel, repeating it later in the film would have been less interesting.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Dakato Johnson
    edited December 2023 Posts: 7,128
    Also, I wouldn't want the music over the film company logos to become a permanent fixture. It's fine occasionally, to shake things up, but if done all the time it would take away from the impact of going from absolute silence to the gunbarrel Bond theme, which is a more valuable thing. At any rate, I hope if Zimmer comes back, he won't stick to the Spectre-NTTD template.

    mtm wrote: »
    Funny really, I don't like it when they just repeat what came before, as with this one, but I like it when they repeat what came before, with the riff and all that! :D
    The riff part of the Bond theme is more dramatic and compelling, thus better suited for the gunbarrel. Sticking to that structure, while inherently repetitive in some ways (and not in others), is not only acceptable, but enjoyable.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,926
    I can totally see why they use the closing motif instead of the riff though- it does make sense, plus it makes the gunbarrel more of a John Barry-originated zone! :D
    Also, it kind of harks back to GoldenEye 64! I think it is pretty dramatic and compelling in itself; I think there's an argument that it's more dramatic than the riff, because it's a bigger statement and has more of a big, powerful full stop to it. I am with you in preferring the riff though!

    I must admit I do like the creeping vamp under the logos though, and wouldn't mind it continuing. Maybe if they come up with a different way of doing it; and certainly none of that Universal logo messing with the graphics!

  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,224
    #18 for me. Serviceable but nothing special.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2023 Posts: 6,664
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Also, I wouldn't want the music over the film company logos to become a permanent fixture. It's fine occasionally, to shake things up, but if done all the time it would take away from the impact of going from absolute silence to the gunbarrel Bond theme, which is a more valuable thing. At any rate, I hope if Zimmer comes back, he won't stick to the Spectre-NTTD template.

    I so agree with you. There has been a slide in the recent films of the logo music "drafting off" the gunbarrel music mystique...like bottom-of-the-screen advertisements interrupting your favorite TV program.

    The essence of the gunbarrel has been lost.

    Give me silence and blackness leading into the gunbarrel music again. Please.
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