Would you rather be a sidekick OR the main villain of the next Bond adventure?

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  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,886
    AVTAK or DAD? Despite generally languishing in the bottom part of most peoples rankings, I like quite a few have a soft spot for both of these films. DAD, has taken longer to win me over. If you can go along with it, it's not a terrible movie. And Pierce really does sell it. One of his better performances, and the one I feel he channels Roger Moore's Bond the most.
    But despite his age, despite the endless stuntmen, and the obviously deaf Bond girl (who doesn't hear a blimp sneaking up on them?), the pensioners at MI6. Despite all its faults, I'll take AVTAK purely for Roger Moore. Yes he's too old, but he still gives the part his everything. Of course, it also has a beautiful score from John Barry. Roger's swansong is the better film for me.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,986
    I enjoyed one of the podcasts on AVTAK, which pointed out that almost all the scenes in AVTAK were shot in broad daylight (despite the obvious availability of day-for-night) because the production team just couldn't be bothered to go on night shoots at this late stage in Moore's run.

    In some ways, it's one of the lazier-shot Bond films, with the obvious exception of DAF.

    That being said, I'd still take it over DAD.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,423
    DAD. Time definitely hasn't been kind to it. However, its Brosnans Moonraker and he's fantastic in it from playing a 007 role. Not saying that the film is fantastic by any means. But his portrayal is a country mile better than Moore in AVTAK which needed a stunt double for any scene that wasn't dialogue or walking.
  • Posts: 1,007
    For all its faults, Die Another Day would have been a great post-covid Bond movie. We needed a bit of fun after all that.
    I like AVTAK in a 'last of the old gang' way, but I'd rather watch Die Another Day.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 652
    AVTAK is a better movie overall, but I'd rather watch DAD just because it's less tedious.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 14,993
    echo wrote: »
    I enjoyed one of the podcasts on AVTAK, which pointed out that almost all the scenes in AVTAK were shot in broad daylight (despite the obvious availability of day-for-night) because the production team just couldn't be bothered to go on night shoots at this late stage in Moore's run.

    That seems a strange assertion: there's a whole big action set piece staged at night.
  • Posts: 14,840
    I'd definitely rather watch AVTAK, even though I don't like it much. At least it has Patrick Macnee and a few half decent ideas.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    AVTAK. Just overall a much more entertaining film to me, and a better sendoff to it's actor.
  • Posts: 1,529
    If only AVTAK could have been as good as its title song. If only DAD didn't have that invisible car. I like that Duran Duran includes the actual title of the short story in its lyrics. Two actors I like, but not as Bond. Of the two, DAD is the better film and better send off.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,989
    This is a tough one for me too! i think there is a better film within AVTAK and they should have acknowledged Bond's age instead of ignoring it. You have the dynamics of the young gen taking on the old pro. But alas it wasn't meant to be. DAD is just an OTT fun film. It doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. A popcorn movie in the truest sense of the word.

    I'm taking DAD over AVTAK!

    Okay lets have some fun with this next one.

    Would you rather watch Sean's first farewell YOLT or Sean's second farewell DAF

    I doubt very much that Connery thought he'd be returning to the role when he wrapped up YOLT but there he was 4 years later back wearing the holster and drinking the martinis!

    So my dear community. Which would you rather watch, Connery's first farewell film, or his second?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    thedove wrote: »
    This is a tough one for me too! i think there is a better film within AVTAK and they should have acknowledged Bond's age instead of ignoring it. You have the dynamics of the young gen taking on the old pro. But alas it wasn't meant to be. DAD is just an OTT fun film. It doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. A popcorn movie in the truest sense of the word.

    I'm taking DAD over AVTAK!

    Okay lets have some fun with this next one.

    Would you rather watch Sean's first farewell YOLT or Sean's second farewell DAF

    I doubt very much that Connery thought he'd be returning to the role when he wrapped up YOLT but there he was 4 years later back wearing the holster and drinking the martinis!

    So my dear community. Which would you rather watch, Connery's first farewell film, or his second?

    I love 'em BOTH!
  • Easy. You Only Live Twice!
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    To be fair @thedove, I think there's some nice subtext to be read into the Moore/Walken dynamic all the same. He's at once representative of the slick, modern youth culture and 80s action movie violence, and the old evil of Nazism, which plays interestingly off Moore's Bond being the final one who could've seen WW2. ,He's Dangerous and the whole Golden Gate fight also feel very much like a final act for this version of the character to me.

    None of this is explicit in the film, of course, but Moore's age is an undercurrent throughout the story anyway, conscious or not, and I like how it turned out in that respect.

    As for the question, tough one, but I'd go with YOLT. I've never thought Connery was as bad in it as is sometimes said, and the volcano finale beats almost everything in DAF to me.



  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,973
    Gonna go with YOLT. At times it can look and sound beautiful, and that lair! No DAF hater though, it's got a slyness to it I really enjoy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    DAF over YOLT usually for me as it's just more fun.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,886
    Or third farewell in NSNA (Aka a finger to Cubby and EON)
    I love DAF for what it is, a fun film, with plenty of good humour and silliness. YOLT is a far better movie, with great cinematography, and a beautiful score. Connery at least still looks like a cold blooded killer in YOLT, in DAF he's still good, but looks a little out of shape compared to his earlier adventures.
  • Posts: 14,840
    I hate DAF. It's pretty much a spoof, Austin Powers before Austin Powers. YOLT is heavily flawed, but I have to go with it: more exotic, better looking, has a few good moments, a genuine tension between Bond and the villain... while Blofeld is far from great he remains iconic and more menacing than in DAF.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,423
    Both are in my top 10. I enjoy DAF slightly more. So DAF
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,548
    I think YOLT. It tickles my childhood memories of Bond (big, strange, hidden HQs (both Tiger’s and Blofeld’s)…).

    But I love DAF for the absolutely bizarre humour and it’s almost unnecessary existence…. In the end, if DAF never existed, we wouldn’t be missing out on some great Bond caper…

    Yes, YOLT….
  • Posts: 1,453
    peter wrote: »
    I think YOLT. It tickles my childhood memories of Bond (big, strange, hidden HQs (both Tiger’s and Blofeld’s)…).

    But I love DAF for the absolutely bizarre humour and it’s almost unnecessary existence…. In the end, if DAF never existed, we wouldn’t be missing out on some great Bond caper…

    Yes, YOLT….

    I often watch YOLT followed by DAF. The fact that YOLT ends in Japan and the opening pre-title scene in DAF is also in Japan and it's about the hunt for Blofeld, the film really works as a direct follow up, as if ignoring OHMSS, which of course ignores YOLT and Bond and Blofeld having already met.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 3,279
    Benny wrote: »
    Or third farewell in NSNA (Aka a finger to Cubby and EON)
    I love DAF for what it is, a fun film, with plenty of good humour and silliness. YOLT is a far better movie, with great cinematography, and a beautiful score. Connery at least still looks like a cold blooded killer in YOLT, in DAF he's still good, but looks a little out of shape compared to his earlier adventures.

    Yes, I was going to say Connery had 3 farewell Bond movies (4 if you include The Rock!) ;)

    YOLT is a better film than DAF, but I would have to go with DAF. It's one of my guilty pleasures - the eerie Hammer Horror early 70's vibe, the creepy Kidd and Wint, Barry's strange sounding score, the Ford Mustang, Las Vegas in its seedy retro setting.

    I've never been overly keen on YOLT. By the time Connery goes Japanese and gets married, I'm usually half asleep by then.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,392
    Neither of these I'm a fan of.

    But I'd have to go with You Only Live Twice, at least that film tried to be a decent Bond film at least, though Connery's performance (and his Japanese Makeup) really detriments the film everytime I'm watching it, but it's still a decent Bond film in places, it's still managed to be a Bond film in a proper way.

    Diamonds Are Forever was just too far from a Bond film, it even made Die Another Day a good Bond film in comparison, I mean, it's plot was really all over the place and doesn't makes sense at times (at least Die Another Day, had an interesting concept with Bond and North Korea thing), then added to it was the cheap effects, bad cinematography (imagine of how they've made Las Vegas and Amsterdam such bland looking places), dull filmmaking, poorly made gags (especially the Plenty O'Toole scenes), inconsistent writing of the characters (Tiffany Case, in particular), just bad writing all around, it's not a Bond film, it's a Bond parody, a caricature, it looked like there's a director who hates the Franchise and tried to made a fun of it with all of his/her mockery in this film, it's just a crazy film in a bad way, it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.

    Heck, even A View To A Kill and No Time To Die or even Never Say Never Again were all far better than this, again save for The Man With The Golden Gun, the only Bond film that's a little more worse than Diamonds.
  • Posts: 3,279
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.
    Blasphemy! Everyone knows DAD and NTTD are the worst Bond films.

    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourites of Moore.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,392
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.
    Blasphemy! Everyone knows DAD and NTTD are the worst Bond films.

    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourites of Moore.

    But if I'm judging the film based on technicality (technical aspects), those two (DAD & NTTD) are at least better than Diamonds.

    TMWTGG is the only Bond film I can't stand, sorry, sure, there's Christopher Lee and Maud Adams, but the negatives overshadowed the positives for me (and that two I've mentioned are the only positives), at least Diamonds had a great song and the portrayal of Bond was decent at least, the way Bond was portrayed in TMWTGG was really unlikeable and very uncomfortable (at least I've never had that feeling while watching Diamonds).
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,954
    It's a hard one. On the one hand I find YOLT to be the better film objectively. On the other hand I also think that Connery's performance is much worse in YOLT compared to DAF.

    Just based on performance I'd go for DAF. It also has a campiness to it that boarders slightly into 'so bad it's good' territory (well perhaps not that far, but it's a very strange to watch which makes it slightly more watchable compared to YOLT, which personally bores me sometimes).
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 3,279
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.
    Blasphemy! Everyone knows DAD and NTTD are the worst Bond films.

    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourites of Moore.

    But if I'm judging the film based on technicality, those two (DAD & NTTD) are at least better than Diamonds.

    TMWTGG is the only Bond film I can't stand, sorry, sure, there's Christopher Lee and Maud Adams, but the negatives overshadowed the positives for me (and that two I've mentioned are the only positives), at least Diamonds had a great song and the portrayal of Bond was decent at least, the way Bond was portrayed in TMWTGG was really unlikeable and very uncomfortable (at least I've never had that feeling while watching Diamonds).

    Yes the scene when Moore gets rough in the hotel room with Maud, and then decides to sleep with her while Goodnight is in the closet is probably the creepiest and unlikeable Bond ever gets in the movies.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,989
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.
    Blasphemy! Everyone knows DAD and NTTD are the worst Bond films.

    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourites of Moore.

    But if I'm judging the film based on technicality, those two (DAD & NTTD) are at least better than Diamonds.

    TMWTGG is the only Bond film I can't stand, sorry, sure, there's Christopher Lee and Maud Adams, but the negatives overshadowed the positives for me (and that two I've mentioned are the only positives), at least Diamonds had a great song and the portrayal of Bond was decent at least, the way Bond was portrayed in TMWTGG was really unlikeable and very uncomfortable (at least I've never had that feeling while watching Diamonds).

    Yes the scene when Moore gets rough in the hotel room with Maud, and then decides to sleep with her while Goodnight is in the closet is probably the creepiest and unlikeable Bond ever gets in the movies.

    No to derail us but when you think that in LALD he tricks a woman to have sex with him, then in TMWTGG he sleeps with one woman while another is in the closet they are both creepy. Moore was able to play it off, but still not very gentlemanly of our leading man.
  • Posts: 1,453
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    it's the worst Bond film in the series, only to be edged out by The Man With The Golden by just a little inch.
    Blasphemy! Everyone knows DAD and NTTD are the worst Bond films.

    TMWTGG is actually one of my favourites of Moore.

    That's your opinion, of course. I do love TMWTGG, it has a lot going for it, but the screenplay is far from the best, and I say that as a professional screenwriter.
  • Posts: 12,274
    YOLT, even though Connery himself is better in DAF. I prefer almost everything else about YOLT - the girls, the locations, the music, the action (specifically climax)—although I’ll give DAF the edge for the great henchmen of Mr. Wint and Kidd. But yeah, still much prefer YOLT as a collective whole, and would rather take my chances on having gotten a second Lazenby film instead of Connery’s DAF, which is almost at the very bottom of my ranking.
  • Posts: 1,965
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Moore should not be in A View To A Kill, his age was just really showing, his body just wasn't fit for the role.

    Actually, since then, as much as I think Moore is the most handsome actor to play Bond, I think since from the get go, his age did really showed, yes, since maybe The Man With The Golden Gun, he looked a bit young in Live And Let Die, but by The Man With The Golden Gun, his age had started to show.

    Smoking all those cigars didn't help either
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