Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,105
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I would love that, but I think just having the bond theme laced through out score again like in the 80's and 90's would be epic enough for me. It'd been so long since we had an exciting new rendition.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I think Eon simply doesn’t want to pay royalties for the 007 theme when they already do that for the James Bond theme. The most hope that it ever had was when David Arnold became a composer, and it never happened. I have to imagine Arnold tried to get it in his scores but never got the green light.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I also have always had this lingering issue in TND where Brosnan's Bond is up against way too many geriatric looking henchmen and it makes the fights suffer as a result, like the recording booth sequence or even the bit throughout the newspaper factory. Toss in those cheesy '90s sound effects and it takes me right out.

    Same thing with AVTAK. One of the goons even looks like Rob Reiner.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Rob Reiner and Roger Moore fighting in that one.

    I thought he looked more like Rob Beckett!
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 733
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I’d really like to see it return.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,559
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I’d really like to see it return.

    I'd prefer to hear it return, yes. ;-)
    Honestly, I think Arnold could have made that tune work.
  • Posts: 1,708
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I’d really like to see it return.

    Same here. I'm sure there is a way to create a very contemporary version of it. They had some great variations of it in TB.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,120
    As for Phoebe Waller-Bridge directing, I'd be ok with it. I don't see any of DC's directors coming back. Cary might have, if he didn't get into trouble. Marc Forster shouldn't and ironically, he's one of the most successful Bond directors outside of Bond. PWB may not have directed before, but John Glen, hadn't (fully) directed a film either before Bond. PWB has done everything else before, besides directing. I think EON will possibly wait for Indy 5 will turn with her (I think she might have written part of).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    PWB having a writing gig is certainly a possibility. Maybe even getting a role along with that. But I think like with John Glen and Peter Hunt, they’d want her to work her way up in some capacity like doing second unit before being promoted to top dog.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,979
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    As for Phoebe Waller-Bridge directing, I'd be ok with it. I don't see any of DC's directors coming back. Cary might have, if he didn't get into trouble. Marc Forster shouldn't and ironically, he's one of the most successful Bond directors outside of Bond. PWB may not have directed before, but John Glen, hadn't (fully) directed a film either before Bond. PWB has done everything else before, besides directing. I think EON will possibly wait for Indy 5 will turn with her (I think she might have written part of).

    I don't think there's any sign she's involved with the writing of Indy. I think they wrote it so quick and with some pretty skilful people that it perhaps didn't have/need that long in development, but I can't pretend to have any inside line on that.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,738
    delfloria wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I’d really like to see it return.

    Same here. I'm sure there is a way to create a very contemporary version of it. They had some great variations of it in TB.

    Rich Douglas did this back in 2008.

    007 - Downhill Assault (Full Mix)
    https://sndup.net/gt8g/

    007 - Downhill Assault (Orchestra Only)
    https://sndup.net/xhrg/
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 733
    mattjoes wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    After 44 plus years, is it time to bring back the 007 theme?
    Last heard in Moonraker, it's something that longtime fans have often wished for.
    Could it find a place in Bond 26? Is it suitable for a modern Bond film, or has this beloved piece of music passed its prime?

    I’d really like to see it return.

    Same here. I'm sure there is a way to create a very contemporary version of it. They had some great variations of it in TB.

    Rich Douglas did this back in 2008.

    007 - Downhill Assault (Full Mix)
    https://sndup.net/gt8g/

    007 - Downhill Assault (Orchestra Only)
    https://sndup.net/xhrg/
    There are elements of the orchestral version I like, but overall it is too far removed from the original for me.
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    edited April 2023 Posts: 154
    There are elements of the orchestral version I like, but overall it is too far removed from the original for me.

    And that's why I think it's unlikely to ever pop up in the series again. It's an action cue, yes, but it's an old-fashioned style action cue. That's something that its use in Moonraker showed with that almost gentle use of it against the boat chase. To make it work in a modern score, you'd have to modernize it and while I like both of these versions that Rich Douglas did, I can see why modernizing it doesn't work for some. Not to mention that, outside of the Moonraker boast chase, it's a Connery-era exclusive.

    Not to mention that, given the jeering reactions from certain corners over the use of a couple of OHMSS cues popping up in the score of NTTD, I can imagine what 007 popping up would receive these days. It's like fandom has gone from "There should be references to past films," to "There should be NO references to past films!" over the last decade or so.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Not a red herring
    edited April 2023 Posts: 565
    There are elements of the orchestral version I like, but overall it is too far removed from the original for me.

    And that's why I think it's unlikely to ever pop up in the series again. It's an action cue, yes, but it's an old-fashioned style action cue. That's something that its use in Moonraker showed with that almost gentle use of it against the boat chase. To make it work in a modern score, you'd have to modernize it and while I like both of these versions that Rich Douglas did, I can see why modernizing it doesn't work for some. Not to mention that, outside of the Moonraker boast chase, it's a Connery-era exclusive.

    Not to mention that, given the jeering reactions from certain corners over the use of a couple of OHMSS cues popping up in the score of NTTD, I can imagine what 007 popping up would receive these days. It's like fandom has gone from "There should be references to past films," to "There should be NO references to past films!" over the last decade or so.

    I think references to specific films are what people take exception to. The 007 theme is different since it appeared in multiple films across several years and is sometimes labeled as the series' second theme. So I don't think it would be seen as blatant a callback in the same way as using cues from OHMSS was.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I like the idea of the OHMSS theme returning for Spectre/Blofeld. That really should have happened with SP, and then naturally continue with NTTD. In fact, we even hear it in the trailer for SP despite that it’s never actually referred in the proper score. Oh well.

    That said, I wish Zimmer had just expanded on the theme that was already created for Madeleine, rather than reuse “We Have All the Time in the World”. He did a good job of actually continuing both the Arnold and Newman sounds in his score. If Vesper’s theme has to appear once, why not Madeleine’s?
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    Posts: 154
    I think references to specific films are what people take exception to. The 007 theme is different since it appeared in multiple films across several years and is sometimes labeled as the series' second theme. So I don't think it would be seen as blatant a callback in the same way as using cues from OHMSS was.

    Perhaps. I do wonder, given that the 007 Theme hasn't appeared in so long (hence part of why we're talking about it) and it's largely vanished outside of fan discussions to the point that even the Best Of... compilation albums haven't featured it since the nineties. That said, having rewatched DAD, I did detect the echoes of it in the Iced Inc. track buried under Arnold's electronics.

    I like the idea of the OHMSS theme returning for Spectre/Blofeld. That really should have happened with SP, and then naturally continue with NTTD. In fact, we even hear it in the trailer for SP despite that it’s never actually referred in the proper score. Oh well.

    That said, I wish Zimmer had just expanded on the theme that was already created for Madeleine, rather than reuse “We Have All the Time in the World”. He did a good job of actually continuing both the Arnold and Newman sounds in his score. If Vesper’s theme has to appear once, why not Madeleine’s?

    I wonder what it says about how much attention I paid to SP pre-release publicity and trailers that I had to have someone point out the use of the OHMSS Theme in the later trailer before I realized that was what I was hearing. Though I would agree it would have been a nice call back for the film to make (especially since Irma Bunt was meant to be in SP at one stage) but it's another of the ideas that never got fully developed.

    As for why Zimmer didn't use Newman's theme for Madeline, I have to confess that I didn't think much of Newman's theme personally. Indeed, it wasn't until someone (perhaps yourself) mentioned it on the forum that I gave the track a specific listening as potentially something stand out... and it wasn't for me. Which, to be fair, is true of how I feel about Newman's entire score for SP (which wasn't entirely his fault, given the decision by Mendes to re-use tracks from SF that weren't meant as temp tracks). Though I do wonder, with Vesper's theme appearing as fleetingly as it does, if that might have been a decision made in post in the same way that Newman tracks from SF were re-used in SP in favor of new tracks from the same composer?

    Getting us back around to the discussion topic: While I'm always curious to hear what a new Bond score sounds like, hearing what Bond 26's will be like is an especially intriguing prospect. The question is do they bring back someone like Arnold with a proven Bond track record? Or Zimmer, given he's an industry darling and award winner? Or does a new Bond get a new composer?

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 733

    Not to mention that, given the jeering reactions from certain corners over the use of a couple of OHMSS cues popping up in the score of NTTD, I can imagine what 007 popping up would receive these days. It's like fandom has gone from "There should be references to past films," to "There should be NO references to past films!" over the last decade or so.
    As George_Kaplan has pointed out, it is not the same thing. Directly referencing music from a specific film, that emotional milestone in particular, to help prop up your film, but at the same time very definitely saying that this is a different continuity… yeah, I didn’t like that. It kind of reminds me of Elton John repurposing Candle in the Wind for Diana.

    The 007 theme, on the other hand, is basic Bond musical piece that just seems to have stopped being used for no obvious reason.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,517
    I think the amount of callbacks is based on the level of subversion in the next era. Also the age of Bond #7 will be a factor, if he's young he might discover some of the tropes during his era
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,496
    https://www.youtube.com/live/7QhQ4uA1gbs

    John Rocha and Jeff Sneider discuss the rumours surrounding Phoebe Waller-Bridge as the next Bond director. Discussions starts at (43:45).
  • Posts: 1,522
    Back in the day, part of the experience of going to a Bond film was the music. For me, nothing since TB has recaptured that excitement of a Bond theme. The bombast of GF and TB has never been duplicated. Not to say there hasn't been a lot of great music, but those two themes create a feeling unlike anything else.

    I too would like to see the 007 theme return.

    @Jordo007 I don't know what level of subversion means.

    For me the success of the music in a film is whether the music is part of your recollection of the film. While there's some nice music in the DC series, apart from YKMN, no other title song or incidental music figure into my memories of the DC films. NTTD recalls OHMSS.

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 733
    One of the reasons I still have fond memories of LALD is the way it threads the Wings track through the film in various ways. Of course it helps if you have a great title track to play with.
  • Posts: 1,522
    One of the reasons I still have fond memories of LALD is the way it threads the Wings track through the film in various ways. Of course it helps if you have a great title track to play with.

    I overlooked LALD. This is one of my favorite soundtracks. I too enjoy how elements of title song are woven throughout the entire film.
  • Posts: 1,708
    How is it that there are even discussions about using an untried director for the reinvention of the series at this point? Makes my head spin. I firmly believe you need all the experience you can get when starting a new era for Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,511
    @defloria … the Bond films are producer-driven films so they could easily mentor the newbie, along with mentorship that would happen under the second unit team.

    Film is an exceptionally collaborative effort and if EoN likes a ballsy direction, I’m not sure if they’d care whether this vision came from a newbie or a veteran.

    Also, if the next film has a leaner budget, they could save several million hiring a newbie with a great vision vs a veteran…
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    @peter That's a handsome doggo in your avatar. 15/10 I would like to say 'Hello' to your doggo.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,373
    Maybe Bond 7's era might be the first Bond era where films are shot back-to-back, so fans don't have to wait too long for films.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,511
    @peter That's a handsome doggo in your avatar. 15/10 I would like to say 'Hello' to your doggo.

    He’s my furry son! Better behaved than my human kids!!
  • Posts: 1,708
    peter wrote: »
    @defloria … the Bond films are producer-driven films so they could easily mentor the newbie, along with mentorship that would happen under the second unit team.

    Film is an exceptionally collaborative effort and if EoN likes a ballsy direction, I’m not sure if they’d care whether this vision came from a newbie or a veteran.

    Also, if the next film has a leaner budget, they could save several million hiring a newbie with a great vision vs a veteran…

    Having connections to the production of the Bond films, I know that the films are NOT completely producer driven. Eon hires the production team and pretty much lets them go. Yes, they give notes but the directors and his team really set the pace and tone. Several of the directors have taken the series off the rails in the past. A newbie director is the last thing they need as they reimagine Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,105
    delfloria wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @defloria … the Bond films are producer-driven films so they could easily mentor the newbie, along with mentorship that would happen under the second unit team.

    Film is an exceptionally collaborative effort and if EoN likes a ballsy direction, I’m not sure if they’d care whether this vision came from a newbie or a veteran.

    Also, if the next film has a leaner budget, they could save several million hiring a newbie with a great vision vs a veteran…

    Having connections to the production of the Bond films, I know that the films are NOT completely producer driven. Eon hires the production team and pretty much lets them go. Yes, they give notes but the directors and his team really set the pace and tone. Several of the directors have taken the series off the rails in the past. A newbie director is the last thing they need as they reimagine Bond.

    I remember sam mendes talked a lot in interviews about how shocked he was at the level of freedom he had to make the film he wanted.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2023 Posts: 13,894
    peter wrote: »
    He’s my furry son! Better behaved than my human kids!!

    :))

    I can believe that, he looks like a well behaved doggo.
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