Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • I'd be up for a period Bond. But can't see Eon risking box office on that. I just want a good actor to get the part regardless of looks etc. And for the stunts to outdo mission impossible.
  • edited February 2023 Posts: 2,745
    An updated version of Lolelia could work. I always felt the banter between them in MR was something that humanised Bond. It's interesting seeing him interact with a co-worker (and a female one at that) who he seems to have genuine and mutual affection for, but won't pursue or even flirt with in the same way he does with Moneypenny. She could actually be of some use narratively speaking too. The fact that you'd have a character who also genuinely cares about Bond's wellbeing (as well as that of others in the 00 section) could be an interesting dynamic as well.
  • If I recall correctly France's Goldeneye scripts had her be MI6's chief analyst; I guess such position would be a good way for her to be present without being too similar to Moneypenny.
  • Posts: 9,730
    I wanted Craig’s era to be more Fleming and while the first two films were the final three were not enough Fleming for my tastes…

    There is enough characters situations and titles from Fleming that hopefully the next actors full tenure has the feel of Fleming. That honestly what I want
  • Risico007 wrote: »
    I wanted Craig’s era to be more Fleming and while the first two films were the final three were not enough Fleming for my tastes…
    To be honest, I felt Skyfall was closer to Fleming than Quantum of Solace. The melancholic and washed-out Bond who comes back from the dead and who is tasked with a near-suicidal mission is straight from Fleming. Not that Craig's interpretation was the direct transposition from the books, but the outline was closer to it in my eyes.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 686
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,161
    @sandbagger1 I’m sure most on here, including me, are going to tell you that they are all essential, but through various polls and discussions over the years a standard group of “Elite Fleming” seems to have emerged by consensus.

    They tend to be:

    CR - Of course. Not only is it the start, but it features a terse brutality that the others really don’t. An absolute.

    MR - Wins favorite novel, hands-down, in any poll I’ve seen, and deservedly so. It just does everything perfectly. Villain, Bond Girl, action, characterization, thrills, the stakes, the reveals, the world building, M. Perfect.

    FRWL - Beautifully crafted and executed. Great cast of well-developed characters. I’d say next to MR, the most thrilling.

    DN - Another book that just manages to do everything right. Pure adventure. Also, my favorite Bond Girl.

    OHMSS - After several years of being seemingly stuck in a rut, Fleming comes back in top form with an epic novel that changes everything.

    YOLT - A completely different tone than any other novel in the collection. Poetic, mystical, and strange. An absolute masterpiece.

    FYEO and OP - Everyone loves the short stories. They take us deeper into Bond’s past and inner-self than the novels do. I’d say that both collections are essential.

    Personally, I feel that LALD and most of TMWTGG belong on that list, but I would not get a lot of support in that.

    If you would like to continue this conversation, we should take it to an existing, relevant thread.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?

    One thing that the films get wrong is that other people, especially villains, seem to know who Bond is and even can order his preferred (at least in the films) cocktail for him. This goes completely against the notion of a secret agent--many of the novels have him infiltrating villains' organizations--not to mention the covers MI6 establishes (Universal Exports, Transworld Consortium).

    Don't even get me started on "You just killed James Bond!" from DAF or "Filthy habit" from TND. LOL.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,895
    The melancholic and washed-out Bond who comes back from the dead and who is tasked with a near-suicidal mission is straight from Fleming.
    Indeed, so - the mission in SF even kicks off with Bond sent in search of an assassin who uses a particular type of bullet. Sounds familiar!
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,482
    Skyfall definitely pulls some of the best elements of YOLT and TMWTGG novels.
    It was interesting to see how they took plot points and Bond's emotion journey from both novels and poured into the film
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    Sorry, looking back I see I misunderstood your question. I mistakenly read essential novels rather than essential qualities in novels.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 686
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Sorry, looking back I see I misunderstood your question. I mistakenly read essential novels rather than essential qualities in novels.
    No problem, it was still interesting to read.
  • Posts: 9,730
    For me I wish Diamonds are forever would be the basis I know many dislike the novel but I really enjoy it
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 686
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?

    One thing that the films get wrong is that other people, especially villains, seem to know who Bond is and even can order his preferred (at least in the films) cocktail for him. This goes completely against the notion of a secret agent--many of the novels have him infiltrating villains' organizations--not to mention the covers MI6 establishes (Universal Exports, Transworld Consortium).

    Don't even get me started on "You just killed James Bond!" from DAF or "Filthy habit" from TND. LOL.
    Yes, I’d like to see them get back to Bond being undercover rather than being so well known. I think it’s one of the few things I didn’t really like in Casino Royale.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,382
    Risico007 wrote: »
    For me I wish Diamonds are forever would be the basis I know many dislike the novel but I really enjoy it

    Sure, it had the best romance banter ever written by Fleming.
  • Posts: 1,693
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?

    One thing that the films get wrong is that other people, especially villains, seem to know who Bond is and even can order his preferred (at least in the films) cocktail for him. This goes completely against the notion of a secret agent--many of the novels have him infiltrating villains' organizations--not to mention the covers MI6 establishes (Universal Exports, Transworld Consortium).

    Don't even get me started on "You just killed James Bond!" from DAF or "Filthy habit" from TND. LOL.

    Infiltrating enemy organizations...................one of the reasons LTK struck me as so Flemingesque. Don't forget................"Yeah, and I'm Dick Tracy".
  • edited February 2023 Posts: 2,745
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?

    That’s an interesting question, and I suspect there’ll be many different answers. Personally speaking the broad Fleming (or more accurately ‘Bondian’) qualities have always been kept intact from page to screen - this womanising British secret agent named James Bond, the cars, villains, even the basic stories.

    Where I personally think the film and book versions of Bond differ - and where I wouldn’t mind seeing the films go - is a bit more philosophical. In the films Bond is an extraordinary man. Again, he’s a secret agent - a man who gambles, seduces women, dresses in stylish clothes and travels to exotic locations. Even in the Craig era he’s framed this way. In the novels Bond is fundamentally an ordinary man whose profession gets him into extraordinary situations. He has his vices - women, gambling, cars, alcohol, and even the danger of his job all being there in equal measure - but he’s simply a man at the end of the day. He’s prone to bouts of melancholy, self doubt, and indeed falling in love. His profession is actually rather dirty and involves stuff he hates (killing in cold blood being one of them). Despite this he’s heroic simply because of his bravery and sense of duty. But not because he’s inherently a virtuous person.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    We’ll put.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    https://i.imgur.io/kyMrKfI_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
    How would y'all react if this showed up on the official 007 account?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,370
    I'd instantly not buy it cause there's no way they'd ever return to spitting these out every other year. A man can dream though.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    Minus the actor, I'd be happy if they had that sort of plan in place. Too bad they don't think like that. I never liked Eclipse as a title though
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    I wouldn't want to know all the future titles planned. Speculation and surprise is part of the journey.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 648
    delfloria wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    As someone who has only read one Fleming 007 novel I’m somewhat in the dark about this stuff. Can anyone tell me what are the essential Fleming qualities (in their opinion, of course), and what (if any) things that the films have made synonymous with Bond that perhaps should be dropped or minimised?

    One thing that the films get wrong is that other people, especially villains, seem to know who Bond is and even can order his preferred (at least in the films) cocktail for him. This goes completely against the notion of a secret agent--many of the novels have him infiltrating villains' organizations--not to mention the covers MI6 establishes (Universal Exports, Transworld Consortium).

    Don't even get me started on "You just killed James Bond!" from DAF or "Filthy habit" from TND. LOL.

    Infiltrating enemy organizations...................one of the reasons LTK struck me as so Flemingesque. Don't forget................"Yeah, and I'm Dick Tracy".

    "James Bond" might be kind of like Keyser Soze, a name that people in the underworld have heard of but aren't sure if he's a real person or not. It's a stretch, but these movies (and even the novels) always had a subtly fantastical element to them.

    As for the SF cop, I think he was reacting more to Bond admitting that he was a British agent than saying his name.
  • Posts: 12,242
    https://i.imgur.io/kyMrKfI_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
    How would y'all react if this showed up on the official 007 account?

    I’d know the site got hacked xD
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,161
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd instantly not buy it cause there's no way they'd ever return to spitting these out every other year. A man can dream though.

    I don't want any long term plans. I'd like to go back to independent entries with the vaguest of tendrils connecting them. And Cavill is a big no for me.
  • Posts: 1,693
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd instantly not buy it cause there's no way they'd ever return to spitting these out every other year. A man can dream though.

    I don't want any long term plans. I'd like to go back to independent entries with the vaguest of tendrils connecting them. And Cavill is a big no for me.

    Would rather see Cavill Return as Fleming's other spy, Napoleon Solo, than Bond.
  • Posts: 1,477
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't want any long term plans. I'd like to go back to independent entries with the vaguest of tendrils connecting them.

    I prefer standalone films. More plausible fiction rather than science fiction.

    No more villains building giant facilities in volcanoes, underwater, and in space without attracting attention. Surely someone somewhere said, "Who's renting and buying all this equipment?" Did anyone ever question how all that cement was delivered to the volcano?



  • Posts: 2,745
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't want any long term plans. I'd like to go back to independent entries with the vaguest of tendrils connecting them.

    I prefer standalone films. More plausible fiction rather than science fiction.

    No more villains building giant facilities in volcanoes, underwater, and in space without attracting attention. Surely someone somewhere said, "Who's renting and buying all this equipment?" Did anyone ever question how all that cement was delivered to the volcano?



    One thing I would actually like to see more of in the films is an attempt to ‘world build’ in regards to the villains and, by extension, their lairs. Not saying they can’t be fantastical, but look at how the novel goes into detail about Dr. No’s hide out/why he’s set up this strange hotel/clinic thing. It makes what is otherwise an absurd concept grounded and a bit more sinister.

    I mean, I feel NTTD would have benefitted from this in some form:. How exactly was Safin able to set up this elaborate nanobot factory? Who are these men working for him? I remember a user on these forums (apologies as I can’t remember who it was but I love the idea) suggesting an alternative version where Safin either ‘inherited’ SPECTRE’s remaining goons, or possibly even got them to work for him by threatening to kill them or their families with the nanobots. Heck, it might have been interesting if it’d been established that Safin perhaps hijacked one of SPECTRE’s bases/transported his family’s garden plants into it or something. Just little touches like that which give these villains a bit more dimension.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    That might have been me. The gist of my fanfiction idea for the third act of NTTD is that Safin in the beginning is a parasite who uses other people's assets either against themselves or for his own gains. He gets Spectre to steal the virus, Leiter to recruit Bond, Bond to retrieve the virus and Obruchev and so on. His entire organisation is him, Ash and Obruchev. And then we get to the island and he suddenly has a lair, an army of goons, an army of worker bees and no consistent motive or goal. He's basically a different character. One of the ideas to carry the Safin of the first two acts over to the third was that Primo brought the SPECTRE goons with him and he makes them think they are still working for some kind of SPECTRE, when it's a completely different organization. It's still not as manipulative, but it kind of works. The other would have been to get Russian military involved (I know the Bond films don't really do that). He's a Russian national AFAIK, he somehow gets the Kremlin to believe he is under serious threat of assassination by the west - which he is - all the while he somehow plots to overthrow the political apparatus that is protecting him. So Bond and MI6 are stuck in the paradoxical situation that to save the Russian regime (maybe Japan would have been a better call here) they have to assault an installation secured by Russian military without starting World War III.

    Given that they didn't do the last part, that could still be some kind of finale idea for a future film. There's a puppetmaster general or industrialist or whatever, who MI6 know is on the verge of overtaking a country and plunging it into whatever endtimes scenario you want to think of, but their current leadership doesn't believe them. So Bond is sent out to connect with some good-looking female operative from that nation and they have to neutralize this guy without it being recognized as foreign interference. I'm blanking right now, but has that ever been done as a plot? It feels like every other plot from the 70s and 80s...
  • Posts: 3,272
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I wanted Craig’s era to be more Fleming and while the first two films were the final three were not enough Fleming for my tastes…

    There is enough characters situations and titles from Fleming that hopefully the next actors full tenure has the feel of Fleming. That honestly what I want

    Same here. There is still plenty of unused decent material to adapt, like Maibaum did in the 80's.
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