Star Trek (1966 - present)

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited November 2022 Posts: 7,891
    You can imagine it was even more frustrating for Trek fans when Paramount released this trailer that at the very least made it look like Kirk would be appearing on the Enterprise-D.



    The writers even admitted that the best possible story for Kirk and Picard was unfortunately already done with “Yesterday’s Enterprise”.
    Absolutely! I have said this for years; this would have been an epic melding if the two generations. What a shame that the powers that be didn’t see the potential and set the script aside for a big screen feature.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited November 2022 Posts: 23,105
    I have a soft spot for Generations years later, back then I tried to avoid too many spoilers though before I went into the cinema I saw a friend who had just watched the film and proceeded to tell me literally everything that happened.

    As David Carson directed and to be fair he earned it for previous work, the film felt at times like an extended TV episode with a bigger budget.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    talos7 wrote: »
    You can imagine it was even more frustrating for Trek fans when Paramount released this trailer that at the very least made it look like Kirk would be appearing on the Enterprise-D.



    The writers even admitted that the best possible story for Kirk and Picard was unfortunately already done with “Yesterday’s Enterprise”.
    Absolutely! I have said this for years; this would have been an epic melding if the two generations. What a shame that the powers that be didn’t see the potential and set the script aside for a big screen feature.

    To be fair, I don’t think it was until S4 that Paramount saw the potential of a feature film for TNG. For the first few years the show wasn’t as highly regarded as TOS, certainly because the early seasons didn’t come close to the original show. But by 1991, it had not only hit its stride in quality but the ratings were at their peak. Which made it the perfect time for the TOS crew to bow out in 1991 to make way for TNG to eventually hit cinemas.

    But that was another weird snag. TNG arguably should have ended earlier, but Paramount wanted to keep it going for as long as it could until salaries went up and profits dipped. Ideally, S6 should have been the end of the show, and then GENERATIONS might have benefitted from having more time to develop. It’s crazy to think that after finishing filming of the final episode they started shooting the film a week later.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited November 2022 Posts: 554
    talos7 wrote: »
    You can imagine it was even more frustrating for Trek fans when Paramount released this trailer that at the very least made it look like Kirk would be appearing on the Enterprise-D.



    The writers even admitted that the best possible story for Kirk and Picard was unfortunately already done with “Yesterday’s Enterprise”.
    Absolutely! I have said this for years; this would have been an epic melding if the two generations. What a shame that the powers that be didn’t see the potential and set the script aside for a big screen feature.

    To be fair, I don’t think it was until S4 that Paramount saw the potential of a feature film for TNG. For the first few years the show wasn’t as highly regarded as TOS, certainly because the early seasons didn’t come close to the original show. But by 1991, it had not only hit its stride in quality but the ratings were at their peak. Which made it the perfect time for the TOS crew to bow out in 1991 to make way for TNG to eventually hit cinemas.

    But that was another weird snag. TNG arguably should have ended earlier, but Paramount wanted to keep it going for as long as it could until salaries went up and profits dipped. Ideally, S6 should have been the end of the show, and then GENERATIONS might have benefitted from having more time to develop. It’s crazy to think that after finishing filming of the final episode they started shooting the film a week later.
    S7 has enough very good episodes (+All Good Things) that make me glad it exists. Maybe it could've been 13 episodes.

    Re: Yesterday's Enterprise, I think it would have had pacing issues extended out any longer, especially by another hour.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    The Sword of Kahless (DS9 4×09)
    Isn't Worf saying he had a vision of Kahless as a child in conflict with his whole lack of faith in TNG's Rightful Heir?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    If it hasn’t already been said: DS9 Worf > TNG Worf
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,311
    Sub Rosa (TNG s7 e14)
    Just rewatched this episode and what a low-point this is in the final season. Gothic romance, ghosts, a Scotland-themed colony, intimate dreams etc.. So Beverly's grandmother and all the Howard women before her had merged with that entity, which gave them green eyes? A candle that must not be blown, because the life form lives in it when not merged with a Howard-woman? Also, why did the weather deteriorate? Was it because the life form had nowhere to go but into the Enterprise's plasma stream?
    Give me a break, but honestly, it would have been best for all to leave Beverly with the colonists, as that would have made Beverly VERY happy, stabilized the weather generator and saved the life of alien life form and the entire colony.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    For a long time I avoided watching that episode because of its reputation as being among the worst of Trek, and when I finally did give it a watch it was one of the most hilarious Trek viewings I ever had. A truly bonkers episode.

    I categorize it with “Spock’s Brain” and “Threshold” in the “so bad it’s good” camp of the hilariously inexplicable Trek.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    For a long time I avoided watching that episode because of its reputation as being among the worst of Trek, and when I finally did give it a watch it was one of the most hilarious Trek viewings I ever had. A truly bonkers episode.

    I categorize it with “Spock’s Brain” and “Threshold” in the “so bad it’s good” camp of the hilariously inexplicable Trek.
    You're doing Spock's Brain a disservice by putting it in the same league as the muck that is Sub Rosa, the last section of McCoy the Neurosurgeon actually has some sharp dialogue...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I give more credit to DeForest Kelley for taking dialogue that is so ridiculous and managing to deliver it with real conviction. Especially at 2:25 on this video.

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    I'm gonna say it. I think Nemesis was a really good movie.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    I'm gonna say it. I think Nemesis was a really good movie.

    I prefer it to Insurrection. Nemesis has a good score by Goldsmith I often listen to it.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 554
    I'm gonna say it. I think Nemesis was a really good movie.

    I prefer it to Insurrection. Nemesis has a good score by Goldsmith I often listen to it.
    Insurrection is a reheated two-parter. It's not really that bad, but it's so completely mediocre. Agreed on the music.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    I'm gonna say it. I think Nemesis was a really good movie.

    I prefer it to Insurrection. Nemesis has a good score by Goldsmith I often listen to it.
    Insurrection is a reheated two-parter. It's not really that bad, but it's so completely mediocre. Agreed on the music.

    Insurrection had one or two good idea's though was a big disappointment after First contact, Insurrection is far less cinematic. ILM not returning hurt the film the visual effects were not great.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 554
    Some stray DS9 S6 thoughts:
    Love the Dominion Occupation arc so much. Probably my favourite stretch of the show yet.
    I quite liked You Are Cordially Invited, but even though I obviously see the our of universe reasons the fact none of the TNG crew came to Worf's wedding is very strange.
    Nog's development over the course of the show has been so great. Him and Jake have pretty much flipped in temperament from all the way back in S1.
    I enjoy the Worf/Dax relationship. It's certainly more natural than Worf/Troi was.
    Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night was an awkward episode. The central ethical questions are good, but the time travel is batshit and the retcon of Dukat having this relationship with Kira's mother is very strange - not only does it reframe his obsession with Kira in a really strange way, you cannot tell me he wouldn't have played the 'I fucked your mother' card long ago.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Some stray DS9 S6 thoughts:
    I quite liked You Are Cordially Invited, but even though I obviously see the our of universe reasons the fact none of the TNG crew came to Worf's wedding is very strange.

    Yeah that’s why they made a point of saying the ceremony was impromptu so to explain it away. The original plan was to try to get the cast for just the end of the episode for a cameo, but even that couldn’t work.
  • edited December 2022 Posts: 12,243
    I’ve likely mentioned it before, but, does anyone else agree James Horner did the absolute best music for this franchise? Huge reason why Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock are two of my favorite entries. His theme renditions are what first come to my mind when I think of Trek.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I like Horner’s scores, but I prefer Goldsmith’s overall.

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 554
    DS9 6×23
    Well, that scene of Quark pressuring the dabo girl into sexual favours under threat of being fired was horribly misjudged.
    Edit: That whole episode made me want to never watch television again.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    I like Horner’s scores, but I prefer Goldsmith’s overall.

    Personally my favourite score was Cliff Eidelman's from Undiscovered Country.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Insurrection is my favorite Goldsmith Trek score followed very closely by The Final Frontier.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I like Horner’s scores, but I prefer Goldsmith’s overall.

    Personally my favourite score was Cliff Eidelman's from Undiscovered Country.

    The main title music is a great mood setter. Darker than typical Trek, but shuts the film.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 554
    TNG Movies post GEN:
    First Contact

    Liked:
    - Fast pace
    - new uniforms
    - Geordi eye implants
    - EMH cameo
    - Drunk Troi
    - Borg hunting
    - Barclay
    - Dixon Hill
    - Picard breakdown is the best scene of the film
    - Picard and Data friendship

    Disliked:
    - Not much

    Insurrection

    Liked:
    - Geordi and the sunset
    - Picard's speeches
    - Riker's B Plot was relatively entertaining
    - bits about the 'scent of death' around the Federation were interesting both narratively and on a meta level

    Disliked:
    - Pretentious Intro
    - millionth ST agrarian utopia, played pretty straight
    - the Ba'ku look like and are as interesting as Californians really into mindfullness
    - Forced humour
    - Data character regression
    - Weak romance for Picard
    - Filmed on location but still looks like every other studio backlot
    - Feels least cinematic of all the TNG films, it really could've been a late episode of the show
    - Riker and Troi rekindling basically the only apparent significant event and it has all of 90 seconds of screentime
    - Shite villain
    - That scream was beyond parody

    Nemesis

    Liked:
    - Most cinematic of the tetrology - nicely different feel than before
    - Riker/Troi wedding is a really fun set of scenes
    - Romulan political intrigue
    - Picard/Shinzon relationship is interesting and relatively well done
    - Data/B-4 is an interesting parallel
    - Data was gonna be First Officer...
    - Troi's payback for the viceroy
    - Final fight is great
    - Worf's little acknowledgement of the Romulans' honour was a lovely character beat
    - Riker bating the viceroy
    - Shinzon's death nice and haunting
    - Picard and Data's last interaction is so quietly heartbreaking
    - Riker can't remember Pop Goes The Weasel
    - Ending is very fitting

    Disliked:
    - Apes Wrath of Khan a little too much
    - Dune buggy chase
    - Shouldn't have cut Picard and Data's wine scene, it sets up the sacrifice more than the finished film
    - 2nd half drags a bit
    - Data's death could've used a little bit longer
    - They cut Crusher's subplot

    DS9 S2
    1. Necessary Evil
    2. The Wire
    3. Blood Oath
    4. The Circle
    5. Sanctuary

    S3
    1. Defiant
    2. The Die Is Cast
    3. Second Skin
    4. The Search, Part II
    5. Life Support

    S4
    1. For The Cause
    2. The Way of the Warrior
    3. The Visitor
    4. Hard Time
    5. Hippocratic Oath

    S5
    1. Trials and Tribble-ations
    2. Things Past
    3. Children of Time
    4. Soldiers of the Empire
    5. Call To Arms

    S6
    1. In The Pale Moonlight
    2. Sacrifice Of Angels
    3. Waltz
    4. Inquisition
    5. Far Beyond The Stars

    S7
    1. What You Leave Behind
    2. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
    3. Tacking Into The Wind
    4. The Siege of AR-558
    5. Take Me Out To The Holosuite

    Stray S6-7 thoughts:
    - The Quark and Bashir pining for Dax scenes in Way of the Prophets and half of S7 were so very shit. Can they not be sad about her death without wanting to sleep with her? The idea they thought Worf was still a temporary thing after the bloody wedding was so stupid.

    - Jadzia got a crap death. The baby stuff was too transparently random and attempting to make the death hit harder. Instead it made it seem almost silly. Her just deciding to go pray to Gods she's never believed on before so she can be sad collateral damage for Dukat was contrived too. Does the death service her character in any way? No, not really. At least Sisko talking to her casket was well done.

    - Ezri is mediocre. I have no problem with the idea of them bringing in another Dax host, the thought crossed my mind from the first time I saw Emissary as something that would a good dramatic well. And it's cool we get more of a sense of who Ezri was/is as an individual than Jadzia, who in-universe basically lived to be a host from the get go. But they play the 'I'm so wacky, which past Dax am I now?' beat way too many times.

    - The line about how if Worf wasn't in the picture Jadzia would've been with Bashir was actively insulting and didn't fit with their dynamic at all really. Ezri and Bashir are alright as a couple in the final episodes, though.

    - I like Vic Fontaine.

    - It would've been better for Dukat to die at the end of Waltz. It was the natural explosive conclusion to his whole arc, finally snapping completely after Ziyal's death and the destruction of his self image. Instead they made him the Dark Emissary cult leader, which had some potential as a mirror to Sisko (and his stint as a blind beggar was neat) but was a bit botched in practice and his actual end wasn't nearly as fitting as Waltz's treatment.

    - I know the Breen have been mentioned tons of times but them being this game changing superpower came out of the blue.

    - Damar's arc was pretty great.

    - The conclusion to the Klingon political saga was definitely satisfying. Even though I got pretty used to Gowron's brand of tolerable assholery, he had to go, and Worf killing him and then doing the death howl was a nice conclusion to their weird relationship. Martok is great too.

    - The Defiant is dead. Long live the Defiant. (The evacuation is quite a good scene).

    - I like Winn's final turn from a character perspective but it wasn't the most engaging plotline to watch, especially considering how stretched out it was. The whole Pah-wraith stuff was pretty meh.

    - Sisko's ending was good, though.

    - The flashbacks in the finale made me cry.

    Fantastic show. 9/10.

    Now I guess it's time for Voyager and then Enterprise. I'm told I'm in for a great time there.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Annie Wersching, who played the Borg Queen and a guest role in ENTERPRISE just passed away.

    Long live the Queen.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2023 Posts: 23,105
    Enterprise Leaves Spacedock with James Horner Score - Star Trek VI This is good.


    @Murdock that first 30 seconds is awesome, I have replayed it 20 times and counting.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Awesome sauce.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Awesome sauce.

    James Horner :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Though Horner coming back would have been cool, I actually really like the score for VI.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2023 Posts: 23,105
    Though Horner coming back would have been cool, I actually really like the score for VI.

    Cliff Eidelman's score for Star Trek IV was phenomenal and totally fits the tone of the film.

    Listening to Horner on a fan made film just makes me feel nostalgia and happy and sad because of his loss.

    The first 3 Star Trek films I have a very deep connection to. (All 6 to be honest though the first 3 really had a profound impact on me as a child).
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2023 Posts: 23,105
    The Enterprise is the only inanimate object I fell in love with, I think its about what that ship represents.

    Watched STTMP Directors Cut 4K Restoration earlier absolutely amazing film.

    P.s. the space dock has been my multi stacked monitor wallpaper for several years, it is a awesome image.
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