NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I also have my complaints about it but I like it overall (though it's been a while since I've seen it and I'm eager to know how I feel after several more viewings). I've still only seen it three times but it's crazy how familiar it feels already.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    I’m completely and utterly infatuated with NTTD.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    stag wrote: »
    Am I in the minority by declaring that I enjoyed NTTD?

    TBH I wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised. Of course it wasn't flawless, but I thought it a fitting ending to the Craig era (though where the character goes from here is anyone's guess).

    That reminds me, at least six months have passed since I saw it so it's due another airing.

    I enjoyed the film too. You are not in that much of a monority.
  • Posts: 6,682
    NTTD is a good film, I just have to be in a specific mindset to substantially enjoy it. But I do want something in a different style for the next film. It's time for a change.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited August 2022 Posts: 12,916
    007HallY wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Am I in the minority by declaring that I enjoyed NTTD?

    TBH I wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised. Of course it wasn't flawless, but I thought it a fitting ending to the Craig era (though where the character goes from here is anyone's guess).

    That reminds me, at least six months have passed since I saw it so it's due another airing.

    Not at all mate, there's a lot of members on here who really enjoyed it. I have my complaints about it, but it's very well made

    I feel the majority of people are in this camp to be honest. It's clearly well made and has some very well crafted, entertaining scenes. That said there are many who can't get beyond their dislike/frustration about some of the more 'bold' creative decisions (Bond's death, the daughter etc.) which I actually sympathise with somewhat.

    It has its share of dodgy moments - 'die Blofeld die!' being one - but most Bond films do anyway. I personally don't think all of the script holds together as well as it should, but it's not the worst Bond film. At least for me.



    Oh NTTD was and is VERY well received here and elsewhere.

    At the same time it becomes a target in the period during and following its release drawing complaints that overtake positive discussion. As with QOS and others before it. Kind of an OHMSS effect.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    007HallY wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Am I in the minority by declaring that I enjoyed NTTD?

    TBH I wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised. Of course it wasn't flawless, but I thought it a fitting ending to the Craig era (though where the character goes from here is anyone's guess).

    That reminds me, at least six months have passed since I saw it so it's due another airing.

    Not at all mate, there's a lot of members on here who really enjoyed it. I have my complaints about it, but it's very well made

    I feel the majority of people are in this camp to be honest. It's clearly well made and has some very well crafted, entertaining scenes. That said there are many who can't get beyond their dislike/frustration about some of the more 'bold' creative decisions (Bond's death, the daughter etc.) which I actually sympathise with somewhat.

    It has its share of dodgy moments - 'die Blofeld die!' being one - but most Bond films do anyway. I personally don't think all of the script holds together as well as it should, but it's not the worst Bond film. At least for me.



    Oh NTTD was and is VERY well received here and elsewhere.

    At the same time it becomes a target in the period during and following its release drawing complaints that overtake positive discussion. As with QOS and others before it. Kind of an OHMSS effect.

    Yes. I remember an influx of new members who seemingly only wanted to join so they could slag the film. Some who had admittedly never even seen it. For awhile this felt like a very negative place. I do say though that most will look back on it favourably like OHMSS, as you said.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited August 2022 Posts: 2,161
    There was a very vocal and near militant contingent on both sides. It all seems a little crazy with distance, but go back and read the aftermath of SP's release. In reality, based on accumulated observations, I believe that the larger group is in the middle, like me. Much of what we had been waiting for we got in NTTD: Craig, for the first time, in a classic, world ending-threat level Bond film, with humor and some nice action scenes.

    On the other hand (I am speaking for myself here, though I know many feel the same, and there are others who have mixed feelings about NTTD for different reasons), I'm not comfortable with the heavy focus on Bond's soap opera, or the continued forced alignment between films, and mainly with the decision to kill the character off. No need to rehash all of those issues here, we are all pretty clear on why we all feel the way we feel at this point, but that is my perspective. In many ways a welcome return to form, but some poor decisions leave a bad taste in my mouth.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,247
    My major issue with the film was always the tonal shifts and its excessive unfunny comedy, not necessarily the family thing or Bond's death. Even if I'm also not a fan of those, I could see myself living with them, if the film's tone was consistent.
  • Posts: 6,682
    One of things I like about NTTD is that, despite whatever shortcomings it might have, it feels very inspired, creatively speaking. And Daniel Craig is on fire as Bond. I love seeing him so self-assured and relaxed, while still wearing on his face the wounds of the Cuba birthday party. I enjoy how the cast of the film has so many varied, interesting characters, some broader and other less broad, the sole weak link for me being Rami Malek, who is dull and whose motivations in the last part of the film aren't well-delineated. I love the twisty plot, with the characters in several scenes expressing through dialogue their lack of understanding of what the hell is going on, who is double-crossing who and why. Love the idea of the guy who wants revenge on Spectre and the modified nanoweapon. I'll never quite enjoy the ending, because it goes too far in a direction counter to what I want in a Bond film, but for what it is, it's handled well, it's very well acted and, what I said about direction notwithstanding, it fits this story and is an interesting, plausible idea to explore. (It's not the death that I find most touching, but M's toast to the glass on the table and "back to work"). The film's great to look at, and nice to listen to, with some ballsy brass. As I said before, NTTD's appeal to me is narrower than with most (but not all) other Bond films (nothing necessarily surprising I suppose, as the films inexorably continue to change), and I have to be in a certain mindset to enjoy it, but it's good.

    I still want a shake-up for Bond 26, though. I know we'll probably get that, whatever they do.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    mattjoes wrote: »
    One of things I like about NTTD is that, despite whatever shortcomings it might have, it feels very inspired, creatively speaking. And Daniel Craig is on fire as Bond. I love seeing him so self-assured and relaxed, while still wearing on his face the wounds of the Cuba birthday party. I enjoy how the cast of the film has so many varied, interesting characters, some broader and other less broad, the sole weak link for me being Rami Malek, who is dull and whose motivations in the last part of the film aren't well-delineated. I love the twisty plot, with the characters in several scenes expressing through dialogue their lack of understanding of what the hell is going on, who is double-crossing who and why. Love the idea of the guy who wants revenge on Spectre and the modified nanoweapon. I'll never quite enjoy the ending, because it goes too far in a direction counter to what I want in a Bond film, but for what it is, it's handled well, it's very well acted and, what I said about direction notwithstanding, it fits this story and is an interesting, plausible idea to explore. (It's not the death that I find most touching, but M's toast to the glass on the table and "back to work"). The film's great to look at, and nice to listen to, with some ballsy brass. As I said before, NTTD's appeal to me is narrower than with most (but not all) other Bond films (nothing necessarily surprising I suppose, as the films inexorably continue to change), and I have to be in a certain mindset to enjoy it, but it's good.

    I still want a shake-up for Bond 26, though. I know we'll probably get that, whatever they do.

    Nice post, and mirrors my thoughts nearly 100%. As I was reading your post, for some reason, I thought about the moment with Bond looking at his hands after he (accidentally) kills Blofeld with Heracles. A lot can be read into that moment I think.
  • Posts: 2,753
    007HallY wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Am I in the minority by declaring that I enjoyed NTTD?

    TBH I wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised. Of course it wasn't flawless, but I thought it a fitting ending to the Craig era (though where the character goes from here is anyone's guess).

    That reminds me, at least six months have passed since I saw it so it's due another airing.

    Not at all mate, there's a lot of members on here who really enjoyed it. I have my complaints about it, but it's very well made

    I feel the majority of people are in this camp to be honest. It's clearly well made and has some very well crafted, entertaining scenes. That said there are many who can't get beyond their dislike/frustration about some of the more 'bold' creative decisions (Bond's death, the daughter etc.) which I actually sympathise with somewhat.

    It has its share of dodgy moments - 'die Blofeld die!' being one - but most Bond films do anyway. I personally don't think all of the script holds together as well as it should, but it's not the worst Bond film. At least for me.



    Oh NTTD was and is VERY well received here and elsewhere.

    At the same time it becomes a target in the period during and following its release drawing complaints that overtake positive discussion. As with QOS and others before it. Kind of an OHMSS effect.

    It's been generally well received critically and from general audiences from what I can tell. I don't think it reached the heights of SF or CR when they came out in these regards, but it was still received positively. I don't get the sense that general audiences feel frustrated or fatigued with the Bond series, nor do I get the sense that the majority of audiences (at least whom I saw the film with) feel that this film marked 'the end of the series' due to its quality or story decisions.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,665
    I suspect that CR, SF, and NTTD recieved better than average reviews largely because of how very unlike Bond movies they are in many places. CR almost in its entirety, at least half of Skyfall, and the end of NTTD.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Though I think it’s a pretty resounding 4 for 5, from the most objective standpoint, Craig’s era was perfectly mixed, with average audiences finding CR and SF two of the very best, NTTD a good one, then QOS and SP as a little lesser.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,897
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Though I think it’s a pretty resounding 4 for 5, from the most objective standpoint, Craig’s era was perfectly mixed, with average audiences finding CR and SF two of the very best, NTTD a good one, then QOS and SP as a little lesser.
    Yes, I think that is how general audiences see them.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    On the other hand (I am speaking for myself here, though I know many feel the same, and there are others who have mixed feelings about NTTD for different reasons), I'm not comfortable with the heavy focus on Bond's soap opera, or the continued forced alignment between films, and mainly with the decision to kill the character off. No need to rehash all of those issues here, we are all pretty clear on why we all feel the way we feel at this point, but that is my perspective. In many ways a welcome return to form, but some poor decisions leave a bad taste in my mouth.

    Yeah those aspects, plus too many plot threads and halfway baked characters are my largest problems with the film. It’s undeniably a well crafted movie script issues aside, and I find it much more energetic and exciting than Spectre, but I’m definitely very mixed on it. I still think Diamonds Are Forever, for all its own issues, is still the most enjoyable final film of all the Bonds who got more than 2.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    I’d also go with DAF.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,382
    For me, it's AvTAK, if not Moore's age and Stacey Sutton's shouting, it's great.
    The villains are both great, the locations and the John Barry score (really liked Wine with Stacey), and of course the Duran Duran theme.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 3,273
    Now that some distance has gone between myself and NTTD, and the dust has settled, here are the pros and cons -

    Pros -

    1. Quite liked some of the action sequences. The PTS was very good, as was the ending with Craig walking through Safin's lair with the gun. These moments felt very much like the books for me.

    2. Bond in Jamaica. Nice seeing him take a shower. Liked the sequence in the nightclub with Felix.

    3. Cuba - I quite liked Paloma, but I'm not overly blown like everyone else is by her. I think she stands out because most of the the film is so bleak in comparison.

    4. I like the usage of the YOLT novel with Safin's lair.

    5. I liked seeing the return of the Aston Martin from TLD.


    Cons -

    1. Could have done without the Norway flashbacks, could have done without Madeline and the daughter too.

    2. Safin was so unnecessary. Blofeld as the main villain would have worked so much better,

    3. Hated the Bond v Blofeld scene. Craig's acting here is truly abysmal. Probably the single worst performance in the entire franchise.

    4. Hated the ending. You don't kill off the main character - ever! They should have used the Sparrows Tears final chapter of YOLT, and left it open.

    5. Why kill Felix off? Again, another pointless moment, just to add another shock element. Keeps the young Netflixers happy I guess.

    6. Paloma action sequence. Suddenly felt we were in bad Moore/Brozza territory again. Many people loved the sequence, but I can only guess is because it is light relief from everything else before and after it.

    7. Nomi - waste of a character. Didn't add anything to the storyline, other than to grab potentially controversial headlines for the film, and I could have done with Bond on his own at Safin's lair. That would have added more tension.

    8. Awful, awful song. Babs reign as producer has given us without doubt the worst songs of the franchise - DAD, QoS, SP and now NTTD.

    8. Hated the use of OHMSS music in the film. I liked it when I first heard it appear, but by the end credits it just felt tacky and wrong.

    9. Way too long for a film that felt it was dragging it's heels in parts.


    CR had so much promise when it was first released. I was so optimistic for the future of the franchise, but it sadly went all downhill from there. Craig was given too much control, but he didn't use it in a good way like Dalton would have done. I got the impression he was never a fan of the Fleming books. He wanted to carve out the character in his own vision, and by NTTD he had absolutely destroyed it.

    Feeling sorry and pity for Bond before his final death scene, as he says his goodbyes to the mother of his daughter is not something I would ever be seeking in a Bond movie, and I doubt many other fans would be either - yet this is what the brains behind this operation thought we all wanted to see.

    Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,382
    Now that some distance has gone between myself and NTTD, and the dust has settled, here are the pros and cons -

    Pros -

    1. Quite liked some of the action sequences. The PTS was very good, as was the ending with Craig walking through Safin's lair with the gun. These moments felt very much like the books for me.

    2. Bond in Jamaica. Nice seeing him take a shower. Liked the sequence in the nightclub with Felix.

    3. Cuba - I quite liked Paloma, but I'm not overly blown like everyone else is by her. I think she stands out because most of the the film is so bleak in comparison.

    4. I like the usage of the YOLT novel with Safin's lair.

    5. I liked seeing the return of the Aston Martin from TLD.


    Cons -

    1. Could have done without the Norway flashbacks, could have done without Madeline and the daughter too.

    2. Safin was so unnecessary. Blofeld as the main villain would have worked so much better,

    3. Hated the Bond v Blofeld scene. Craig's acting here is truly abysmal. Probably the single worst performance in the entire franchise.

    4. Hated the ending. You don't kill off the main character - ever! They should have used the Sparrows Tears final chapter of YOLT, and left it open.

    5. Why kill Felix off? Again, another pointless moment, just to add another shock element. Keeps the young Netflixers happy I guess.

    6. Paloma action sequence. Suddenly felt we were in bad Moore/Brozza territory again. Many people loved the sequence, but I can only guess is because it is light relief from everything else before and after it.

    7. Nomi - waste of a character. Didn't add anything to the storyline, other than to grab potentially controversial headlines for the film, and I could have done with Bond on his own at Safin's lair. That would have added more tension.

    8. Awful, awful song. Babs reign as producer has given us without doubt the worst songs of the franchise - DAD, QoS, SP and now NTTD.

    8. Hated the use of OHMSS music in the film. I liked it when I first heard it appear, but by the end credits it just felt tacky and wrong.

    9. Way too long for a film that felt it was dragging it's heels in parts.


    CR had so much promise when it was first released. I was so optimistic for the future of the franchise, but it sadly went all downhill from there. Craig was given too much control, but he didn't use it in a good way like Dalton would have done. I got the impression he was never a fan of the Fleming books. He wanted to carve out the character in his own vision, and by NTTD he had absolutely destroyed it.

    Feeling sorry and pity for Bond before his final death scene, as he says his goodbyes to the mother of his daughter is not something I would ever be seeking in a Bond movie, and I doubt many other fans would be either - yet this is what the brains behind this operation thought we all wanted to see.

    Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).

    Great insight! @jetsetwilly
    Really agreed with each of your points.

    It really got my same feelings towards the film
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    @jetsetwilly I’m finding myself more or less in agreement with your points, aside from #6 and #7, though I’m closer to you on those two now than I would have been six or seven months ago.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction, as I thought that people would - for whatever reason - view the film in negative terms. For me CR and NTTD were the best of the Craig films and serve as the perfect 'bookends' for his tenure.
  • Posts: 3,273
    stag wrote: »
    I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction, as I thought that people would - for whatever reason - view the film in negative terms. For me CR and NTTD were the best of the Craig films and serve as the perfect 'bookends' for his tenure.

    Some people are viewing the film in negative terms (see posts above)...
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    For me, it's AvTAK, if not Moore's age and Stacey Sutton's shouting, it's great.
    The villains are both great, the locations and the John Barry score (really liked Wine with Stacey), and of course the Duran Duran theme.
    I would agree with you, but after my recent rewatch I've come to enjoy Moore in the film. There's a nice subtext to the aging Bond vs Zorin (this thread articulates it well https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18721/bonds-final-mission-avtak-or/p1). The score plays into that a little too.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).
    Agreed with so many of your points above. I already went into great detail in my review so I won't rehash it all again, but Craig's era really went out with a whimper. SP and NTTD are two of my least favorite entries in the whole series, sadly. It's really a shame considering how great things started off with CR.

    One thing you pointed out that I didn't mention in my review was the theme song. I don't know if I'd say it was awful (it doesn't assault my eardrums like Sam Smith's wailing did), but it was definitely unremarkable. It was so generic that it sounded like any musician could've gone into the studio and come up with that tune in five minutes.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think at the end of the day, the director is to blame. Because the execution of any screenplay matters. For example, Inception was directed properly by Nolan, that's why people were able to accept its somewhat impossible plot. I don't like the fact that Bond and Blofeld were brothers in Craig's era, but with proper direction, we would have accepted it. I think if someone like Campbell directed NTTD with the exact screenplay that Cary used, he would have done way better. One reason is, he too had a goofy character in Boris, both he used him properly.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 2,753
    pachazo wrote: »
    Very disappointing film overall, and a sad way to bring the curtain down on Craig's Bond era. NTTD is down there with the dregs of the franchise (usual suspects - DAD, AVTAK, TWINE, SP).
    Agreed with so many of your points above. I already went into great detail in my review so I won't rehash it all again, but Craig's era really went out with a whimper. SP and NTTD are two of my least favorite entries in the whole series, sadly. It's really a shame considering how great things started off with CR.

    One thing you pointed out that I didn't mention in my review was the theme song. I don't know if I'd say it was awful (it doesn't assault my eardrums like Sam Smith's wailing did), but it was definitely unremarkable. It was so generic that it sounded like any musician could've gone into the studio and come up with that tune in five minutes.

    Honestly, I can't remember how that song goes to this day, and I've listened to it many times now. At least Writing's on the Wall was somewhat memorable (the arrangement was actually ok, but I'm not sure if the lyrics/Smith's voice worked for me).

    I do think Bond songs should get you hyped for the film. I'm all for ballads or more melancholic songs, but something like Nobody Does it Better or Skyfall at least had the benefit of strong vocals, memorable melodies and a general sense that we were building to some sort of rousing chorus. Eilish's whispery vocals, the general low key feel to her song just feel... well, wrong.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think at the end of the day, the director is to blame. Because the execution of any screenplay matters. For example, Inception was directed properly by Nolan, that's why people were able to accept its somewhat impossible plot. I don't like the fact that Bond and Blofeld were brothers in Craig's era, but with proper direction, we would have accepted it. I think if someone like Campbell directed NTTD with the exact screenplay that Cary used, he would have done way better. One reason is, he too had a goofy character in Boris, both he used him properly.

    I agree. A good director can make sense out of nonsense and turn the implausible into something we're all willing to believe. I don't think Mendes and Fukunaga did a poor job, but some heavy narrative lifting had to be done to really nail the Brother Blofeld twist, and despite being a SP fan, I think they screwed the pooch. Personally, I could have done without the brother part of it, though it doesn't aggravate me as much as others.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,916
    stag wrote: »
    I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction, as I thought that people would - for whatever reason - view the film in negative terms. For me CR and NTTD were the best of the Craig films and serve as the perfect 'bookends' for his tenure.

    Yeah there's a lot to like and love in the film @stag. There were new and longtime posters here expressing that early on. Then they moved on to other things apparently.

    To me a pretty remarkable success on many levels, and a moment in film history to live through and relish.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think at the end of the day, the director is to blame. Because the execution of any screenplay matters. For example, Inception was directed properly by Nolan, that's why people were able to accept its somewhat impossible plot. I don't like the fact that Bond and Blofeld were brothers in Craig's era, but with proper direction, we would have accepted it. I think if someone like Campbell directed NTTD with the exact screenplay that Cary used, he would have done way better. One reason is, he too had a goofy character in Boris, both he used him properly.

    I agree. A good director can make sense out of nonsense and turn the implausible into something we're all willing to believe. I don't think Mendes and Fukunaga did a poor job, but some heavy narrative lifting had to be done to really nail the Brother Blofeld twist, and despite being a SP fan, I think they screwed the pooch. Personally, I could have done without the brother part of it, though it doesn't aggravate me as much as others.

    Absolutely. Not that directing is easy though, but it's magical when it comes out right.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think at the end of the day, the director is to blame. Because the execution of any screenplay matters. For example, Inception was directed properly by Nolan, that's why people were able to accept its somewhat impossible plot. I don't like the fact that Bond and Blofeld were brothers in Craig's era, but with proper direction, we would have accepted it. I think if someone like Campbell directed NTTD with the exact screenplay that Cary used, he would have done way better. One reason is, he too had a goofy character in Boris, both he used him properly.

    I agree. A good director can make sense out of nonsense and turn the implausible into something we're all willing to believe. I don't think Mendes and Fukunaga did a poor job, but some heavy narrative lifting had to be done to really nail the Brother Blofeld twist, and despite being a SP fan, I think they screwed the pooch. Personally, I could have done without the brother part of it, though it doesn't aggravate me as much as others.

    Absolutely. Not that directing is easy though, but it's magical when it comes out right.

    I think Gilbert did it best. Working from three totally nonsensical scripts, he managed to deliver solid, ambitious, entertaining, grandiose Bond films that, while crossing many lines, nevertheless still feel like pure Bond to me.
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