Which Bond film best captures Ian Fleming’s literary Bond?

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  • Posts: 1,070
    I think that different aspects of Bond, as written, are reflected quite well by the different actors. For example, while Moore generally is not considered the best Bond in terms of acting, or physical action, he had some EXCELLENT physical action scenes. Additionally, perhaps Moore is most credible of them all as being someone who had been to posh schools and had the bearing of someone who had done so. He had the lothario bit down quite credibly, too. Also, though it was exaggerated and included for the sake of some slight humor, but Moore's Bond really had that knows-something-about-everything bit going on, though it was Connery's Bond who first got picked on for it. Lastly, though, please remember Moore's turn was a continuation of a tonal shift started in DAF...one could say started in YOLT, took a break, then resumed in DAF. Moore recognized the absurdities in the role and the stories, and went at it with a twinkle in his eye when was not winking. Plenty of things about Fleming's Bond do not blend well with having a hero whom people want to see again. As for the actor whom so many consider most Bond-as-written-esque, even Dalton did not go for book-like in every regard, with good reason.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited January 10 Posts: 375
    I always thought TMWTGG, even with the silly humorous scenes, was by far the most "Fleming" of Moore's Bonds. Moore actually comes off as lethal in that movie whereas in most of his other Bonds he's more of a playboy. I have no issue with Moore's edgier performance. It doesn't come off as unnatural to me, I think he's damn good at it, but to each his own.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited January 11 Posts: 1,193
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I always thought TMWTGG, even with the silly humorous scenes, was by far the most "Fleming" of Moore's Bonds. Moore actually comes off as lethal in that movie whereas in most of his other Bonds he's more of a playboy. I have no issue with Moore's edgier performance. It doesn't come off as unnatural to me, I think he's damn good at it, but to each his own.

    I have said the same thing for years. Early Moore is the best at channeling Fleming's Bond (even if the films themselves do not).
  • edited January 10 Posts: 1,061
    I’ve always liked that harder edge that Moore brought with him in both LALD and TMWTGG. He even brought back some of that edge when it came time for FYEO. I also remember reading some publicity for Live and Let Die where they discuss Moore in the part, and discuss how his Bond will harken back to Fleming as opposed to Connery. Interesting how those things work out.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 979
    Agree with the above, re Moore.
    His colder moments in the series are like Ice, and highly underappreciated by most. He is very close to Fleming in TMWTGG and LALD, for me. There is an a sneery cynicism that's lost in TSWLM (although that is a far better film than either of these). I would argue it never returns, even for FYEO.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,245
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agree with the above, re Moore.
    His colder moments in the series are like Ice, and highly underappreciated by most. He is very close to Fleming in TMWTGG and LALD, for me. There is an a sneery cynicism that's lost in TSWLM (although that is a far better film than either of these). I would argue it never returns, even for FYEO.
    We reach!
    TMWTGG is my favourite Moore Bond, even though FYEO is the better film.
  • Gonna come out from the woodwork and throw my hat in that I also really enjoyed Moore’s darker performance in his first two films. Not that I don’t hugely enjoy him throughout, but he definitely lost an edge that I like in my Bond actors.
  • Posts: 1,070
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Agree with the above, re Moore.
    His colder moments in the series are like Ice, and highly underappreciated by most. He is very close to Fleming in TMWTGG and LALD, for me. There is an a sneery cynicism that's lost in TSWLM (although that is a far better film than either of these). I would argue it never returns, even for FYEO.

    Funny you should share that ! I agree that for several of the actors, my favorite of their Bond films is not necessarily their best. For example - TB is not Connery's best, but I find it supremely enjoyable. TSWLM is - at least for some - not Moore's best, but it is a fun movie to enjoy. This does not apply to one-film Lazenby but, fortunately, OHMSS is a great Bond and also very enjoyable, but for the darn green-screen in the climatic scene on the ice track, which was ironic since the approach and director went back to realism for this film. It also does not apply well to considering Dalton's two. I think his portrayals are equally well done, and so it comes down to just which one you might enjoy more. For Brosnan, GE often is regarded as his best, but I find DAD great until Iceland, and TWINE and TND very enjoyable. For Craig, CR often is regarded as his best, but I enjoy QOS - it moves well and is direct and pointed, and SPECTRE - but for the silly handgun shot at the end which so easily could have been handled by the script "placing" the right weapon in that boat and it was an MI6 boat from an MI6 facility, after all, so could logically have had appropriate weaponry on board or quickly grab-able before hopping on board.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 11 Posts: 1,132
    Since62 wrote: »
    the silly handgun shot at the end which so easily could have been handled by the script "placing" the right weapon in that boat
    Absolutely. Especially as Bond had been messing about with a new rifle at Q Branch earlier - one line of dialogue at that point from Tanner or Q about them replacing the old rifles on the boats and it would've been set up nicely. After all, he had as much chance of bringing down Blofeld's helicopter with a spudgun as he did with the Walther...
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 12,077
    I must be one of the few who really like the takedown from the boat. It's a classic Bond moment, downplayed. There was an unused deck-mounted harpoon made for SP which I imagine was originally to be used for this scene, perhaps mounted on the Scubacraft.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 1,193
    QBranch wrote: »
    I must be one of the few who really like the takedown from the boat. It's a classic Bond moment, downplayed. There was an unused deck-mounted harpoon made for SP which I imagine was originally to be used for this scene, perhaps mounted on the Scubacraft.

    Yes indeed, you might be the first person I've heard from, even among the SP fans, who was satisfied with that scene.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 5,728
    I liked it as well.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,999
    Venutius wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    the silly handgun shot at the end which so easily could have been handled by the script "placing" the right weapon in that boat
    Absolutely. Especially as Bond had been messing about with a new rifle at Q Branch earlier - one line of dialogue at that point from Tanner or Q about them replacing the old rifles on the boats and it would've been set up nicely. After all, he had as much chance of bringing down Blofeld's helicopter with a spudgun as he did with the Walther...

    He'd have been better off throwing stones at it.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 10,247
    QBranch wrote: »
    I must be one of the few who really like the takedown from the boat. It's a classic Bond moment, downplayed. There was an unused deck-mounted harpoon made for SP which I imagine was originally to be used for this scene, perhaps mounted on the Scubacraft.
    I liked it as well.
    Liked it liked it liked it. Apropos, enjoyed it.


  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 1,132
    Youse guys!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 12 Posts: 5,728
    We're just a bunch of filthy casuals with all the wrong opinions.

    But hey, we love the Bond films, so what's so bad about that.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,162
    The whole third act of Spectre just becomes worse with every scene. Bond really turns into some kind of terminator who is invincable. At first viewing I thought that Bond is still in that torture chair and is only dreaming...
  • Posts: 11,084
    GBF wrote: »
    The whole third act of Spectre just becomes worse with every scene. Bond really turns into some kind of terminator who is invincable. At first viewing I thought that Bond is still in that torture chair and is only dreaming...

    Unfortunately it's the truth. Once they get to Blofeld's base, it tanks a huge plunge. Before that, it was still my least favorite Craig film, but had a lot more enjoyability than the third act. Even for action movie standards Bond springing out of the chair and going full Superman right after intense torture is absolutely absurd. That is not the injured Craig Bond who's flaws are shown in his other movies. And the whole climax with that timer and everything is just so flat.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 5,728
    Wait wait wait… people don’t like Spectre?
    :O :O :O
  • Posts: 2,745
    FoxRox wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    The whole third act of Spectre just becomes worse with every scene. Bond really turns into some kind of terminator who is invincable. At first viewing I thought that Bond is still in that torture chair and is only dreaming...

    Unfortunately it's the truth. Once they get to Blofeld's base, it tanks a huge plunge. Before that, it was still my least favorite Craig film, but had a lot more enjoyability than the third act. Even for action movie standards Bond springing out of the chair and going full Superman right after intense torture is absolutely absurd. That is not the injured Craig Bond who's flaws are shown in his other movies. And the whole climax with that timer and everything is just so flat.

    That was my biggest gripe too, the torture scene miraculous recovery, straying back into Brosnan DAD hospital heart attack recovery. Horrible moment, which sent the film into farce territory.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 12 Posts: 1,132
    After a while, the third act became the main focus of the script rewrites. The leaked emails were full of concerns about how poor the third act was in the earlier drafts, so if you don't like the one they signed off on, imagine how much worse it could've been!
  • Posts: 1,769
    FoxRox wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    The whole third act of Spectre just becomes worse with every scene. Bond really turns into some kind of terminator who is invincable. At first viewing I thought that Bond is still in that torture chair and is only dreaming...

    Unfortunately it's the truth. Once they get to Blofeld's base, it tanks a huge plunge. Before that, it was still my least favorite Craig film, but had a lot more enjoyability than the third act. Even for action movie standards Bond springing out of the chair and going full Superman right after intense torture is absolutely absurd. That is not the injured Craig Bond who's flaws are shown in his other movies. And the whole climax with that timer and everything is just so flat.

    This scenario stands out in my mind when I've read people complaining about Bond taking the blast at the grave in the NTTD precredits. At least here Bond is still staggering and groggy from what he endured as opposed to his recovery in SP.
  • Posts: 11,084
    BT3366 wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    The whole third act of Spectre just becomes worse with every scene. Bond really turns into some kind of terminator who is invincable. At first viewing I thought that Bond is still in that torture chair and is only dreaming...

    Unfortunately it's the truth. Once they get to Blofeld's base, it tanks a huge plunge. Before that, it was still my least favorite Craig film, but had a lot more enjoyability than the third act. Even for action movie standards Bond springing out of the chair and going full Superman right after intense torture is absolutely absurd. That is not the injured Craig Bond who's flaws are shown in his other movies. And the whole climax with that timer and everything is just so flat.

    This scenario stands out in my mind when I've read people complaining about Bond taking the blast at the grave in the NTTD precredits. At least here Bond is still staggering and groggy from what he endured as opposed to his recovery in SP.

    Exactly. NTTD, even though a lot more classic Bondian than the first few Craigs, still lined up much better with his take on the character in being a little more serious and seeing the effects of damage done to him. Sure, it’s not as bad as it would be in real life, but it still gives him a vulnerability we didn’t really have before him as Bond. So SP being the odd one out of the films in that way ticked me off.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,245
    Birdleson wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    I must be one of the few who really like the takedown from the boat. It's a classic Bond moment, downplayed. There was an unused deck-mounted harpoon made for SP which I imagine was originally to be used for this scene, perhaps mounted on the Scubacraft.

    Yes indeed, you might be the first person I've heard from, even among the SP fans, who was satisfied with that scene.

    It was preposterous! A big reach. Almost entirely impossible. And he did it. Very fitting for Bond! And as you see, many do like it.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 1,193
    I guess I thought that was more or less universally thought of as anticlimactic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,245
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I guess I thought that was more or less universally thought of as anticlimactic.

    No, it was a "no, he can't, sad that he keeps trying, empty the clip poor OO7, HOLY S**T HE DID IT!!!" moment.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 5,728
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I guess I thought that was more or less universally thought of as anticlimactic.

    I’d tend to say the entire London sequence is a bit anticlimactic, but I do like the scene between Bond and Blofeld in MI6. I just find the whole sequence a bit boring, but the shooting the helicopter bit I don’t mind in the same way others do.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited January 13 Posts: 1,985
    In my first two viewings I really liked SP's third act. In a very bad third SP viewing, the River Thames ending was one of the few things I could still enjoy.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 13 Posts: 5,728
    I do really like the third act. I wish there was more Blofeld’s Lair, and less London I guess.

    And at some point between SP and NTTD, he should have escaped. They did him so dirty.

    I said it somewhere else I think, but in NTTD, Spectre should have given Blofeld a special immunity to it during the short time they were in control of it, and have him survive to the surprise of Madeleine and Safin. Then he goes to Safin’s island and dispatches him, and becomes the real villain of NTTD.

    Blofeld kills Madeleine, we get our “Welcome to Hell, Blofeld” moment, maybe let Bond survive, cut, that’s a wrap on YOLT II. I mean, No Time to Live Twice. I mean… No Time to Die.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,245
    I do really like the third act. I wish there was more Blofeld’s Lair, and less London I guess.

    And at some point between SP and NTTD, he should have escaped. They did him so dirty.

    I said it somewhere else I think, but in NTTD, Spectre should have given Blofeld a special immunity to it during the short time they were in control of it, and have him survive to the surprise of Madeleine and Safin. Then he goes to Safin’s island and dispatches him, and becomes the real villain of NTTD.

    Blofeld kills Madeleine, we get our “Welcome to Hell, Blofeld” moment, maybe let Bond survive, cut, that’s a wrap on YOLT II. I mean, No Time to Live Twice. I mean… No Time to Die.

    What a better film. NTTLT!
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