Is 'For Your Eyes Only' the most boring James Bond film?

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,033
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,780
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.
  • Posts: 1,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.
    But is it not legit as fans to discuss what we feel are the most boring out of our preferred series of films? It's interesting to me to hear what preferences range and we often get good discussions out of them and given me new ways to watch the films.

    My personal most boring Bond is TWINE and most boring stretch is in AVTAK from when Bond arrives in San Francisco until roughly the fire. Coulda used more Walken.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,033
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,975
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.
    My personal most boring Bond is TWINE and most boring stretch is in AVTAK from when Bond arrives in San Francisco until roughly the fire. Coulda used more Walken.

    More! More POW-AH!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,394
    TWINE could be the most boring one because the action isn't creative enough and the twist doesn't surprise me anymore after 20 views...other candidate: SP because some scenes are going on for too long (and again: the action isn't that great).
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 3,279
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.

    I'm with you on SP. TWINE and AVTAK are dull too.

    DAF no way. That film is a blast. Corny and silly camp at worst, bizarre Hammer Horror creepy at best, with some great one liners and sideline characters.

    Great locations and one of Barry's best scores too.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,033
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.

    I'm with you on SP. TWINE and AVTAK are dull too.

    DAF no way. That film is a blast. Corny and silly camp at worst, bizarre Hammer Horror creepy at best, with some great one liners and sideline characters.

    Great locations and one of Barry's best scores too.

    I don't find TWINE dull at all, other than the submarine climax which is pretty poorly staged and has a very cartoony death for the villain. The rest, I quite enjoy. It has its flaws but I don't find it boring.

    I can't say the same for DAF, I'm afraid. I'll certainly agree with you on the score (one of Barry's best), and a couple of the one liners are very witty for sure. But I don't find the characters all that good, the locations aren't great, Charles Gray's Blofeld is terrible, and the plot itself is pretty bland.

    "Bizarre Hammer Horror creepy" is a fairly apt description of it, but it's not really something I particularly want in a Bond film. I'm not sure if I'm in a minority or a majority on DAF these days, people seem to be more complimentary of it lately!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,024
    DAF gets by for me for the most part because of the snappy dialogue by Mankiewicz, and Connery actually comes off engaged in the part.

    The only thing I really dislike of DAF is the climax, because it literally is half-assed.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 3,279
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.

    I'm with you on SP. TWINE and AVTAK are dull too.

    DAF no way. That film is a blast. Corny and silly camp at worst, bizarre Hammer Horror creepy at best, with some great one liners and sideline characters.

    Great locations and one of Barry's best scores too.

    I don't find TWINE dull at all, other than the submarine climax which is pretty poorly staged and has a very cartoony death for the villain. The rest, I quite enjoy. It has its flaws but I don't find it boring.

    I can't say the same for DAF, I'm afraid. I'll certainly agree with you on the score (one of Barry's best), and a couple of the one liners are very witty for sure. But I don't find the characters all that good, the locations aren't great, Charles Gray's Blofeld is terrible, and the plot itself is pretty bland.

    "Bizarre Hammer Horror creepy" is a fairly apt description of it, but it's not really something I particularly want in a Bond film. I'm not sure if I'm in a minority or a majority on DAF these days, people seem to be more complimentary of it lately!

    Funny thing with DAF, I've read reviews recently where critics are claiming DAF to be one of the most sadistic and violent too.

    DAF is not a film I would normally associate with being violent, yet recently in the UK ITV have been showing all the Bond films, and the PTS is heavily censored. Connery strangling the woman with her bra is removed, as is the shots of him throwing the knives at one of Blofeld's men.

    The elevator fight is often cut too, so this makes me wonder. Kidd & Wint are a fairly nasty duo, murdering a guy with a scorpion down the neck (originally in his mouth, which is even more nasty) the old lady gets killed in Amsterdam and then old Shady Tree in Las Vegas. After that Plenty tied to the bottom of a pool.

    Is DAF actually a violent and sadistic film underneath the camp and silliness? After all, it was released at a heightened time of violent films like Clockwork Orange and Dirty Harry.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,024
    DAF definitely has a mean streak behind it, especially with its macabre humor. It's why I don't think it would have even worked as a Moore film as many seem to claim, it's too vicious for a Moore installment.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 3,279
    DAF definitely has a mean streak behind it, especially with its macabre humor. It's why I don't think it would have even worked as a Moore film as many seem to claim, it's too vicious for a Moore installment.

    Yes, I'm starting to come along with this line of thinking too. DAF used to be hailed as the blueprint of the Moore era, and I suppose the closest to it is LALD, with its voodooism. Other than that, DAF remains very much a film isolated, on its own.

    Its not really part of the Connery era, as it comes after Lazenby and the end of the 60's, and not really part of the Moore era either.

    Connery himself doesn't really appear to be playing the same character that we saw in the 60's either. He visibly looks quite different, and acts different too. Even the Scottish brogue lazily starts to show through in much of his dialogue.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,944
    Yeah I used to have TMWTGG/QoS down as the poorest Bond, but I did catch a bit of DaF recently and I think that might be in top contention. It's quite grotty to watch and is very bitty, and the action scenes don't even seem to have been thought about. I mean, what is the Moon Buggy chase? They just seem to have shot some footage of the buggy and arranged it afterwards in the edit suite: there's no story to it.
  • Posts: 1,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.

    I'm with you on SP. TWINE and AVTAK are dull too.

    DAF no way. That film is a blast. Corny and silly camp at worst, bizarre Hammer Horror creepy at best, with some great one liners and sideline characters.

    Great locations and one of Barry's best scores too.

    I don't find TWINE dull at all, other than the submarine climax which is pretty poorly staged and has a very cartoony death for the villain. The rest, I quite enjoy. It has its flaws but I don't find it boring.

    I can't say the same for DAF, I'm afraid. I'll certainly agree with you on the score (one of Barry's best), and a couple of the one liners are very witty for sure. But I don't find the characters all that good, the locations aren't great, Charles Gray's Blofeld is terrible, and the plot itself is pretty bland.

    "Bizarre Hammer Horror creepy" is a fairly apt description of it, but it's not really something I particularly want in a Bond film. I'm not sure if I'm in a minority or a majority on DAF these days, people seem to be more complimentary of it lately!

    Funny thing with DAF, I've read reviews recently where critics are claiming DAF to be one of the most sadistic and violent too.

    DAF is not a film I would normally associate with being violent, yet recently in the UK ITV have been showing all the Bond films, and the PTS is heavily censored. Connery strangling the woman with her bra is removed, as is the shots of him throwing the knives at one of Blofeld's men.

    The elevator fight is often cut too, so this makes me wonder. Kidd & Wint are a fairly nasty duo, murdering a guy with a scorpion down the neck (originally in his mouth, which is even more nasty) the old lady gets killed in Amsterdam and then old Shady Tree in Las Vegas. After that Plenty tied to the bottom of a pool.

    Is DAF actually a violent and sadistic film underneath the camp and silliness? After all, it was released at a heightened time of violent films like Clockwork Orange and Dirty Harry.

    It could be. Add in things like the bolt to the Blofeld clone's forehead, tossing Plenty casually out a window (although she survives), Kidd set on fire and the slap to Tiffany. Sounds like a scholarly mission for somebody to write.

    The thing is Wint and Kidd do most of those murders off-screen and the scorpion one is kind of exaggerated. Tynan's face is as bad as Brosnan pain face. The pair are so campy it takes the edge off.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,780
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.

    Yes, absolutely. Individual scenes are lacklustre. If I had to choose one I found the least involving, I'd have to say either DAF or SP. But even then, they're not really boring.

    Now that you mention it, SP is closest to being boring in my book.
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.
    But is it not legit as fans to discuss what we feel are the most boring out of our preferred series of films? It's interesting to me to hear what preferences range and we often get good discussions out of them and given me new ways to watch the films.

    My personal most boring Bond is TWINE and most boring stretch is in AVTAK from when Bond arrives in San Francisco until roughly the fire. Coulda used more Walken.
    Of course you can, I was just stating my personal opinion :)
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 7,500
    On my latest Bondathon DAF was the one film I struggled the most to sit through, yes, even more than the Brosnans which are usually at the bottom of my pecking order.

    The locations are great you say? Hm, perhaps if you only like the collors brown and grey...? Honestly I think the film is by far the least good looking of all the Bonds. One thing is the generaly bad cinematography. The film actually looks significantly older and more dated than many of the films that came before it, especially compared to OHMSS which looks like it's in a different world entirely. They even made Amsterdam look quite dull and colorless! The other thing is the locations themselves. Deserts, deserts... only deserts... with the occational brown or grey steel or concrete building frown in. Jesus Christ! Las Vegas has to be the least interesting place in the world. A selection of grey and brown hotels in the middle of a desert? Yawn... sigh...

    And then there are the so called wity lines. I think I can remember only two or three times I actually laughed. The rest either made me frown or wince. Thunderball gives this a schooling when it comes to clever dialogue! And the script has to be damn hilarious to justify a a story that makes no sense, is a dull, unengaging mess with no build up of tension at all and which seems to be just an excuse for silly ideas and pointless, tasteless gags.

    Oof! Tom Makiewitcz and Guy Hamilton... I know you are not solely to blame, but newertheless I will never forgive you for this travesty. A Bond film I truly wish never existed...
  • Posts: 11,425
    DAF is a very odd entry in the franchise but I definitely don't find it boring.

    I agree with some of the posts above. TWINE is categorically the dullest Bond film. Possibly one of the most boring films full stop.

    First time I saw SP I almost fell asleep. However it grew on me a bit since then. I need to give it a rewatch.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,944
    Getafix wrote: »
    DAF is a very odd entry in the franchise but I definitely don't find it boring.

    I agree with some of the posts above. TWINE is categorically the dullest Bond film. Possibly one of the most boring films full stop.

    I don't think any Bond films are bad, but I would agree that I find it one of the more boring entries too.
  • Posts: 230
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't find any Bond film boring. Even the ones I don't like aren't guilty of being boring.
    Agreed, there are a few stretches in a small group of films, but none of them is boring throughout.
    But is it not legit as fans to discuss what we feel are the most boring out of our preferred series of films? It's interesting to me to hear what preferences range and we often get good discussions out of them and given me new ways to watch the films.

    My personal most boring Bond is TWINE and most boring stretch is in AVTAK from when Bond arrives in San Francisco until roughly the fire. Coulda used more Walken.

    I'd say that even though Connery's films were the most iconic, and often some of the very best, there are larger stretches in those films in which not much very exciting happens than in future implementations.

    Again - not that it is BAD...but there are some slow parts in all of the early movies.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,024
    Connery himself doesn't really appear to be playing the same character that we saw in the 60's either. He visibly looks quite different, and acts different too. Even the Scottish brogue lazily starts to show through in much of his dialogue.

    For the most part I think he comes off more like he did in GF, which I attribute to Guy Hamilton's direction. For example you can see it in the way he interacts with the villains, Goldfinger and Gray's Blofeld, where he acts even more smarmy than he usually does with other villains, as if he personally enjoys bruising their egos.

  • edited April 2020 Posts: 11,425
    DaF is off the charts bonkers but in a good way. I also enjoy the fact we get a different interpretation from Connery as well. He's playing it much closer to how Roger approached the role later on. Connery basically gave us all the interpretations pretty much.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 1,469
    Just finished watching FYEO, and no, not most boring to me. It's still probably my sentimental favorite, though objectively I think other Bond films are better. Rather than boring, I might say it has a slower pace than others, though with plenty of action sequences. I think of the climax at St. Cyril's. The climbing sequence always gets me, as I did a little rock climbing. And director Glen knows how to draw out the suspense of how it'll end--without big explosions a la MR or TSWLM or much gunplay at all, but with fistfights, as they inch closer toward the "summit" with Gogol. Hadn't noticed till now the similarity between FYEO and SF in that the bad guys got it the same way at the end. The sound effects in the finale are well done. Seeing Gogol again was a cherry on top. And after avoiding slapstick within the film, they allowed a bit of fun at the end with the "Thatchers". One other point, I was noticing the dialogue in the film, and how it seemed RM enjoyed speaking his lines, as well as looking great and having a sharp wardrobe. And Conti's score carries it along.

    About the chemistry or lack of it between Bond and Melina, I saw in Wikipedia that co-writer Richard Maibaum said "We tried to return to the earlier films with For Your Eyes Only but we didn't have Sean to make it real. And I was very disappointed with the way the love story was handled. The whole idea was that the great lover James Bond can't get to first base with this woman because she was so obsessed with avenging her parents' death. Nothing was ever done with it. It was as if the director didn't feel there was a love story there at all." After reading Ian Fleming's description of Judy Havelock, I think chemistry probably would've been better with a different Melina, but it's history now. On Maibaum's reference to Sean Connery, a moot point, while even better writing (or storyline) and direction might've helped, in my view RM does a great job with what he was given.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 11,425
    It's not as if Sean made any of the love interests in his films "real".

    Only Laz, Dalts and Craigbo achieved that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,944
    Thrasos wrote: »
    About the chemistry or lack of it between Bond and Melina, I saw in Wikipedia that co-writer Richard Maibaum said "We tried to return to the earlier films with For Your Eyes Only but we didn't have Sean to make it real. And I was very disappointed with the way the love story was handled. The whole idea was that the great lover James Bond can't get to first base with this woman because she was so obsessed with avenging her parents' death. Nothing was ever done with it.

    Thanks for this quote; not sure quite what he means there. The way he phrases it it sounds like a comedy pitch! Is that a very interesting idea?
    It's basically what happens in Quantum of Solace really, but they don't make anything of them not getting off with each other in that film either because, well, what can you make out of nothing happening? If your only addition to it is that James is horny then you're rather reducing him, surely?

    As others have said, I'm not sure what Sean would have added there either. It might've been nice if we'd had something a little more this tone rather than mugging away in NSNA, but there we go.

    Actually, it's interesting how NSNA didn't go down this path, isn't it? FYEO was the most recent Bond film from their point of view but they went back for much more of a TSWLM or DAF vibe. They must've felt FYEO got it wrong I guess.

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,872
    NSNA went down the Roger Moore, James Bond path. Even though they had Connery back as Bond. It's quite bizarre really, that Connery would play the part that way. Having been the actor to establish the character.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,944
    It did yeah, but not the FYEO Roger Moore path, even though that was the then current version of Roger Moore's Bond.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 1,469
    Does anyone know if Carole Bouquet suffered some kind of trauma at the time of filming? That's what I just read in an interview with Julian Glover (Kristatos). He said "I got on well with Carole Bouquet, but she had an unfortunate trauma on that film, so she didn’t socialize very much". The only thing I've read is that she had sinus issues so they had to fake her underwater scenes. Also apparently at that time her father was dying of cancer so she was doing some drugs to deal with the emotional pain of that. Wondering if it was something other than those things. If so, I wonder if that may've been one reason why some people say she didn't have much chemistry with Roger Moore or seemed somewhat cold and aloof.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 538
    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefererd Moore in OP, and found it a return to form for him. FYEO did not suit his preferred portrayal of Bond.

    Agreed. As much as I like serious Bond films, I don't always rate serious Bond films higher than comedic ones.

    It's the execution that matters. A well executed camp Bond is better than a mediocre execution serious Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited November 2021 Posts: 8,491
    But I wouldn't call FYEO boring, or close to being the most boring in the series...Plenty of charm (I love a drive in the country), action (skiing, Locque's execution, being dragged by the boat, the climb up St. Cyril's) and a strong ally in Coumbo.
    FYEO sits somewhere in the middle...
    Most boring?... Spectre....
  • Posts: 1,394
    I love FYEO.It’s exactly what the franchise needed at the time after the outlandish fantasy of MR ( Which I still love but the next film had to bring Bond back to basics ).
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