NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    I hate the Crow song, but it’s better than “Surrender”, which just sounds like a bad attempt at a throwback big band number.
    You’re literally the only one who thinks that. Or at least I’ve never come across anyone who prefers Crow’s song. And I actually don’t mind her song. It’s just that “Surrender” is pure 100% Bond!
    I prefer the Sheryl Crowe song. 🤷‍♂️
  • Cowley wrote: »

    I bloody hate 'Surrender' too. As great as the 60s title themes were we didn't need lame imitations of them in the nineties.
    I can never wrap my head around statements like these. So it was great in the 60s but not great in the 90s anymore. How does that make any sense? A great song or a great sound is great in any decade! You have the 60s Bond sound which is the pinnacle of Bond/spy music but no let’s not go down that route. Let’s go with something generic 90s sounding. It doesn’t sound like Bond? So what, at least it’s contemporary. That just doesn’t make any sense. I bet those are the same people who complained that TND felt like a generic 90s action shoot-Em-up and not a “classic” Bond film. Can’t please some folks.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,023
    Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
  • Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
    You’re right. Just having trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it great. But in this case it was a great “power ballad” with a great sound, period. Trumpets were the icing on the cake for sure! It screamed “Bond, James Bond”. And that’s all I ever want in my Bond movie.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 565
    I used to like "Surrender" until my now wife told me it sounded too cheesy when it played in my car once. Ever since then, i can't un-think those comments and all I can hear is pastiche. It feels too tryhard and is too much an on-the-nose attempt at a retro Bond theme. I think my biggest complaint is that it doesn't try to be it's own thing. I have similar feelings about the soundtrack as well. Still love Arnold though.
  • Posts: 6,677
    Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
    You’re right. Just having trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it great. But in this case it was a great “power ballad” with a great sound, period. Trumpets were the icing on the cake for sure! It screamed “Bond, James Bond”. And that’s all I ever want in my Bond movie.

    Hear, hear.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Univex wrote: »
    Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
    You’re right. Just having trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it great. But in this case it was a great “power ballad” with a great sound, period. Trumpets were the icing on the cake for sure! It screamed “Bond, James Bond”. And that’s all I ever want in my Bond movie.

    Hear, hear.

    100% agree. After Arnold, 007 soundtracks are bland and lifeless. Backseat Driver, Hamburg Break-Out, White Knight, wow. Classic 007. Not just some whimpering, lifeless strings.
  • Posts: 1,314
    I love sheryl crowes song. Surrender sounds to me like someone on YouTube trying to write a bond song.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    I’m heavily nostalgic for both efforts and love both songs. Guess I’m in the minority on that one.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    Help! I don't recall this piece. Where was this piece in the film?

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    @TripAces I believe that's what little Madeleine was listening to on her Walkman. MP3 player? Whatever we were listening to in the 90's.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,554
    Minion wrote: »
    @TripAces I believe that's what little Madeleine was listening to on her Walkman. MP3 player? Whatever we were listening to in the 90's.

    That makes sense. Given that the scene seems to take place around 97 or 98 (she has a Giga Pet, which were introduced at that time), I'm glad CJF didn't have her listening to Hansen or Chumbawamba.

    Edit: Indeed, that Louis Attaque track was released in 1997. The band was heavily influenced by Violent Femmes. Interesting.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 820
    jake24 wrote: »
    I’m heavily nostalgic for both efforts and love both songs. Guess I’m in the minority on that one.

    You're not alone at all, though. I think "Surrender" is close to the epitome of Bond music.

    It's always an interesting conversation, to me, when people don't like things I consider heavily referential or inspired -- perhaps even pastiche-y -- of classic Bond music.

    I completely understand the desire to hear something newer, fresh, reinterpreted. And we get that all the time. But if a deep love for those original sounds and feelings doesn't produce instant joy at hearing them revisited, I just always think -- what are you in it for, then?

    Entirely possible I'm just far, far too attached to nostalgia. But when I hear the OHMSS references in NTTD's score, for example, my reaction is the farthest possible thing from negative. It's just joy, to me. Sheer joy. To hear these things that are so close to my heart explored in a new, relevant context.

    I'll admit -- I literally do not know how such brief, emotionally charged references could possibly be controversial to fans of Bond music.

    Adjacent example: why am I bothered by Newman reprising Skyfall cues in Spectre, then?

    Because to me, those are completely different contexts. Newman used entire scenes' worth of action cues repeated verbatim, from a film that was only 3 years old, a straight copy-paste which just totally removed originality and tension from the Spectre scenes.

    Tinier references, I actually loved: the hint of the 'family' motif/sound ("Skyfall" on the original album, not the Adele one) that appears when Bond sees the back of Blofeld's head at the funeral. I thought that was brilliant.

    But then it just goes off the rails: "Enjoying Death" is reprised in the Austrian clinic for a tense Bond vs. Q moment, which is a completely different context. "Someone Usually Dies" is reprised in the office/expositional/M vs. Q tension scene between Tokyo and London, in a completely different context. A piece of "Quartermaster" when Bond is trying to survive the collapsing building in Mexico city.

    The strange part is, they all "work" in the film in those scenes. But to a hardcore Bond music fan, it just reeked of laziness and not caring. "The temp score works." "Meh, leave it then." As someone who waits with baited breath for each new Bond soundtrack release, I just felt so...betrayed by that choice.

    (Now someone will reply that they see the OHMSS usage in NTTD the same way. And that's fine! Just sharing my reasons why I see the two cases very differently).
  • Posts: 4,023
    TripAces wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    @TripAces I believe that's what little Madeleine was listening to on her Walkman. MP3 player? Whatever we were listening to in the 90's.

    That makes sense. Given that the scene seems to take place around 97 or 98 (she has a Giga Pet, which were introduced at that time), I'm glad CJF didn't have her listening to Hansen or Chumbawamba.

    Edit: Indeed, that Louis Attaque track was released in 1997. The band was heavily influenced by Violent Femmes. Interesting.

    It's hard to hear this song in the film as the other source song by Dalida is playing at the same time.
  • Posts: 501
    Univex wrote: »
    Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
    You’re right. Just having trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it great. But in this case it was a great “power ballad” with a great sound, period. Trumpets were the icing on the cake for sure! It screamed “Bond, James Bond”. And that’s all I ever want in my Bond movie.

    Hear, hear.

    100% agree. After Arnold, 007 soundtracks are bland and lifeless. Backseat Driver, Hamburg Break-Out, White Knight, wow. Classic 007. Not just some whimpering, lifeless strings.

    I know it's not popular to say it, but I do believe that Arnold's scores are overrated. Specially his three Brosnan scores. The overuse of the Bond theme, the overuse and intrusion of the techno sound… There certainly are a couple of tracks that I like, and CR would be the exception - I love CR's score -, but overall I don't love his tenure. Being better than Serra isn't enough. As I've previously stated, for my money, Skyfall is the best non Barry score of the entire series.

    I DON'T WANT ARNOLD BACK.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,023
    But… but… he’s the heir apparent!! There can be no other composer!!
  • I’m not wild about Arnold’s Brosnan scores for those exact reasons, but I love Casino Royale and, to a lesser degree, Quantum’s scores. I think at that point he really figured out how to do a John Barry-esque melodic soundtrack without drowning it in noise and constant Bond theme riffs. Some people think CR’s score is cheesy, but I love how old fashioned it is, there are so many distinctive melodies and leitmotifs and big and sweeping and grand like a Bond score should be. Skyfall has some tracks I quite like, but it rarely feels big and grand to me.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    If Zimmer and company produced the quality of work that was done for NTTD after being called in late into the game then I can only imagine what can be done if Zimmer is involved from the onset. I do love David Arnold's work, but I am incredibly happy with Zimmer's score and would welcome his return in Bond 26 with a fresh take on Bond.
  • I finally saw the film and have to say that Zimmer’s score didn’t leave any impression on me. I can’t remember a single beat that I could hum. With the exception of the one or two times where the OHMSS score is referenced (which is always great to hear) the rest of the score just didn’t register with me. What’s odd is that it didn’t even sound like the typical Zimmer score that you would except, especially after his collaborations with Nolan. Which I suppose is a good thing. Last thing I need to hear is the wall of sound that we heard in all his Nolan efforts. This was something different. But certainly not memorable. If I didn’t know Zimmer scored this I would have never guessed it was him. Guess I need to listen to the soundtrack and see if I can place those individual tracks in the appropriate places in the film. But yeah I’m afraid nothing stood out for me. Even my favorite scene (in the forest in Norway) I have no idea what played during that part. I would expect something really memorable during that entire sequence! But nothing registered for me.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,985
    I finally saw the film and have to say that Zimmer’s score didn’t leave any impression on me. I can’t remember a single beat that I could hum. With the exception of the one or two times where the OHMSS score is referenced (which is always great to hear) the rest of the score just didn’t register with me. What’s odd is that it didn’t even sound like the typical Zimmer score that you would except, especially after his collaborations with Nolan. Which I suppose is a good thing. Last thing I need to hear is the wall of sound that we heard in all his Nolan efforts. This was something different. But certainly not memorable. If I didn’t know Zimmer scored this I would have never guessed it was him. Guess I need to listen to the soundtrack and see if I can place those individual tracks in the appropriate places in the film. But yeah I’m afraid nothing stood out for me. Even my favorite scene (in the forest in Norway) I have no idea what played during that part. I would expect something really memorable during that entire sequence! But nothing registered for me.

    The trouble is, with noisy action scenes in Bond films they tend to drown out the score. You only tend to really hear the music properly when divorced from the film.

    Arnold mentioned this when recording 'backseat driver' for TND. He said "I'm not sure how much you'd hear once all the sound effects are added"

    I like Zimmer's score and it has grown on me. I don't love it, but it's certainly adequate. It's no CR but then neither is the film 😁
  • Posts: 7,653
    Zimmer did give the Craig years finally a soundtrack that can be listened an enjoyed, which is a first in the Craig years, and the titlesong is also on the cd which is a nice change.
    When I first heard the cd I immediately noticed the WHATT music from OHMSS which was just special and great to hear. In the cinema the song by Louis Armstrong was a great treat and showed how poor the titlesongs of the Craig years were when compared to the Armstrong classic. Even if the Craig years did deliver two oscar winning songs.

    This soundtrack I have listened more often than the other 4 soundtracks from the Craig era combined, this one is fun even if I on occasion would expect Batman to pop up in the cinema before I had seen the movie.

    So Zimmer did deliver two great soundtracks this year NTTD and Dune, the later being my favourite and better movie.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Zimmer did give the Craig years finally a soundtrack that can be listened an enjoyed, which is a first in the Craig years, and the titlesong is also on the cd which is a nice change.
    When I first heard the cd I immediately noticed the WHATT music from OHMSS which was just special and great to hear. In the cinema the song by Louis Armstrong was a great treat and showed how poor the titlesongs of the Craig years were when compared to the Armstrong classic. Even if the Craig years did deliver two oscar winning songs.

    This soundtrack I have listened more often than the other 4 soundtracks from the Craig era combined, this one is fun even if I on occasion would expect Batman to pop up in the cinema before I had seen the movie.

    So Zimmer did deliver two great soundtracks this year NTTD and Dune, the later being my favourite and better movie.

    CR and SF title songs were poor...? OK....🤔
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,215
    Anybody else disappointed by some of the music editing in the final film? The guitar at the end of What Have You Done was cut in the final film and I thought it would have been excellent in the film. It was the perfect little musical touch that really gave that “Bond is back in action” type feel so I was sad that bit didn’t make it into the film. Also really like the vocal track in the album version of “Home” although that edit makes a little more sense to me. The dialogue and performances in that moment were so tender and heartfelt already that that bit may have been a little much and blatantly emotionally manipulative.
  • Posts: 4,023
    Anybody else disappointed by some of the music editing in the final film? The guitar at the end of What Have You Done was cut in the final film and I thought it would have been excellent in the film. It was the perfect little musical touch that really gave that “Bond is back in action” type feel so I was sad that bit didn’t make it into the film. Also really like the vocal track in the album version of “Home” although that edit makes a little more sense to me. The dialogue and performances in that moment were so tender and heartfelt already that that bit may have been a little much and blatantly emotionally manipulative.

    The last half minute of that track appears as part of the end credits
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,312
    I believe this has not yet been posted in this thread?

  • Posts: 84
    I know it's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but does anyone have the ability to extract an audio file from a website so that we have a downloadable version of this unreleased cue? :)

    https://www.stevemazzaro.com/news/no-time-to-die-unreleased-music
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    0iker0 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Cowley referred to it as a lame imitation, and I agree.

    Not everyone is attached to the 60s aesthetic as you are. Just having a bunch of trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it good.

    I don’t care for the Crow song mainly because of her vocals. But the instrumentals are actually a very good attempt at a modern Bond sound with the guitars.
    You’re right. Just having trumpets blaring doesn’t automatically make it great. But in this case it was a great “power ballad” with a great sound, period. Trumpets were the icing on the cake for sure! It screamed “Bond, James Bond”. And that’s all I ever want in my Bond movie.

    Hear, hear.

    100% agree. After Arnold, 007 soundtracks are bland and lifeless. Backseat Driver, Hamburg Break-Out, White Knight, wow. Classic 007. Not just some whimpering, lifeless strings.

    I know it's not popular to say it, but I do believe that Arnold's scores are overrated. Specially his three Brosnan scores. The overuse of the Bond theme, the overuse and intrusion of the techno sound… There certainly are a couple of tracks that I like, and CR would be the exception - I love CR's score -, but overall I don't love his tenure. Being better than Serra isn't enough. As I've previously stated, for my money, Skyfall is the best non Barry score of the entire series.

    I DON'T WANT ARNOLD BACK.

    You don't have to worry about that. The franchise has moved on to enlisting A-list talent: directors, actors, and now composers (Newman and Zimmer). They won't move several steps backwards and hire Arnold.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,028
    After a few more listens to the score, I think Cuba Chase has solidified itself as the up-tempo highlight.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    After a few more listens to the score, I think Cuba Chase has solidified itself as the up-tempo highlight.

    Agreed; my long-standing favourite track of the record.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Would be nice to get an isolated score on the NTTD Bluray release. TND had Arnold's score isolated on the DVD release (not sure about the BD)
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