Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,192
    Revelator wrote: »
    The issue with Brofeld is that it's another example of the series trying too hard to ape contemporary trends. Turning the hero-villain confrontation into yet another this time it's personal feud involving a figure from the hero's deep past is horribly cliched. And to what effect? Waltz campily harps on about his history to Bond, who looks bored and barely cognizant of the personal connection. Dramatically incompetent handling of conceptually corny material.

    The concept was just unnecessary. One of the great things about the Bond series is its avoidance of domesticity and childhood. That's part of what made it so appealing to adults. Skyfall came close to breaking the rule, but Bond's childhood home was more an excuse to feature a good location than a probe of Bond's past. Fleming was able to create some of the greatest villains of the 20th century without having to give them tortuous links to Bond's childhood ("Octopussy" is the only exception, but the story never feels contrived, unlike Spectre). The same of course goes for his Blofeld, who stands on his own.

    I was very excited when I heard Blofeld was returning to the movies. I hoped EON would take the opportunity to wipe away the encrustations of Dr. Evil-style camp and make him an effective villain again, harking back to Fleming's treatment of the character. Instead Spectre did the worst possible thing: give Blofeld a childhood relationship with Bond and pile on the camp tropes (the cat, the scar, the Nehru jacket, Waltz overacting, etc.). It feels like nobody in charge was certain about which direction to take the character--and that's symptomatic of Spectre's script history, as the Sony leaks demonstrated. The previous stinkers in the series merely suggested exhaustion; Spectre suggests profound indecision.

    Excellent points. They took the Blofeld tics of the '60s and fused them to a short story, but failed to create an actual character for the film.
  • DaltonFanDaltonFan California
    Posts: 69
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 14 Posts: 13,870
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Wattenscheid
    Posts: 380
    It is pretty well established that the Young Un live in Switzerland in the 90s and he apparently picked up a lot of western culture there.
  • Posts: 12,849
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 13,870
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?
  • Posts: 12,849
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 14 Posts: 13,870
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 599
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 14 Posts: 13,870
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 599
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    It's really is a film of two halves. I remember really liking the first hour a lot, to the point it was my favourite Brosnan film for a long time (on the premise that the first hour is so good). But the Iceland stuff gets worse every time you see it.

    Not sure which is my favourite Brosnan film any more. Might have to be TND by default.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 13,870
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    It's really is a film of two halves. I remember really liking the first hour a lot, to the point it was my favourite Brosnan film for a long time (on the premise that the first hour is so good). But the Iceland stuff gets worse every time you see it.

    Not sure which is my favourite Brosnan film any more. Might have to be TND by default.

    Yes, I agree, more than most Bonds it is a film of two halves. It's never been my favourite Brosnan Bond though. That would be either GE or TWINE. I find it hard to decide between them. TND was the first Bond film I saw in the cinemas but I rank it pretty lowly now.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 599
    I rank all the Brosnans pretty lowly. They have good bits but they are the worst of the different eras for me.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 13,870
    I rank all the Brosnans pretty lowly. They have good bits but they are the worst of the different eras for me.

    I'm the same. He's my least favourite Bond, even though I grew up in his era. I was a Bond fan before Brosnan came along though. I think it ultimately comes down to the writing and the lack of any fidelity to anything Fleming wrote. The Brosnan era is the only one not to have any real direct lifts from Fleming.
  • Posts: 487
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 14 Posts: 4,021
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,055
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    giphy.gif
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 13,870
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!

    True. I suppose you have to take it all in context too. The Bond films are one of the most successful series of the films in the history of cinema. A Bond film can be seen as bad in the context of the other Bond films that it's compared and contrasted against. I think that is what people here mean when they rate or rank the Bond films.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 4,021
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!

    True. I suppose you have to take it all in context too. The Bond films are one of the most successful series of the films in the history of cinema. A Bond film can be seen as bad in the context of the other Bond films that it's compared and contrasted against. I think that is what people here mean when they rate or rank the Bond films.

    Certainly. I thought the comment I quoted was referencing people who think some Bond films are bad in the context of all filmmaking. Which is still a valid opinion, but it wouldn’t hurt to take a wider view of bad films.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,192
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    edited February 14 Posts: 599
    Hellraiser: Revelations is a film made to retain the rights to the franchise. Apparently it was shot in three weeks and released in cinemas just for the crew so that it counted as a theatrical release.

    And yes, SP aside I love all Bond films. I don't critique them in the same way I do other films. They sort of stand aside on their own.
  • Posts: 6,403
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.

    Not sure how controversial that is...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 4,021
    Hellraiser: Revelations is a film made to retain the rights to the franchise. Apparently it was shot in three weeks and released in cinemas just for the crew so that it counted as a theatrical release.

    And yes, SP aside I love all Bond films. I don't critique them in the same way I do other films. They sort of stand aside on their own.

    Spectre aside, though? Well, whatever.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 14 Posts: 13,870
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!

    True. I suppose you have to take it all in context too. The Bond films are one of the most successful series of the films in the history of cinema. A Bond film can be seen as bad in the context of the other Bond films that it's compared and contrasted against. I think that is what people here mean when they rate or rank the Bond films.

    Certainly. I thought the comment I quoted was referencing people who think some Bond films are bad in the context of all filmmaking. Which is still a valid opinion, but it wouldn’t hurt to take a wider view of bad films.

    Yes, you're right. I just wanted to clarify what I said above in case people thought I was being too harsh about Die Another Day or any other Bond film. Context is key in all criticism of films or other areas of the Arts.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 644
    jobo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.

    Not sure how controversial that is...

    Not at all controversial. There are Bond films I dislike more than it (specifically DAD and AVTAK) but at least they’re not as lazy and uneventful as TMWTGG.

    DAF is lazy, but fairly enjoyable. Sorta.
  • Posts: 487
    Hellraiser: Revelations is a film made to retain the rights to the franchise. Apparently it was shot in three weeks and released in cinemas just for the crew so that it counted as a theatrical release.

    True of a few films, I believe. Which leads to a question: does anyone know if Eon’s rights to Bond expire if they do not release a film within a given time period?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited February 14 Posts: 8,123
    I don't have a quick or definitive answer, but I recall suggestions the James Bond Jr cartoon was floated to keep EON'S film rights exercised.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 599
    Hellraiser: Revelations is a film made to retain the rights to the franchise. Apparently it was shot in three weeks and released in cinemas just for the crew so that it counted as a theatrical release.

    And yes, SP aside I love all Bond films. I don't critique them in the same way I do other films. They sort of stand aside on their own.

    Spectre aside, though? Well, whatever.

    Yes, I hate the film.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 4,021
    Hellraiser: Revelations is a film made to retain the rights to the franchise. Apparently it was shot in three weeks and released in cinemas just for the crew so that it counted as a theatrical release.

    And yes, SP aside I love all Bond films. I don't critique them in the same way I do other films. They sort of stand aside on their own.

    Spectre aside, though? Well, whatever.

    Yes, I hate the film.

    Yes, and it’s one thing to compare it to other Bond films, which is fair, but to compare it to properly bad films outside of the franchise? Insane.
  • Posts: 12,849
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.
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