DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    Below SUICIDE SQUAD?

    That's beyond harsh.

    SS is a very weak entry but at least that first hour or so is enjoyable. At least it's trying to go for something. It fails, that's for sure, but at least there is a climax of people doing something.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2020 Posts: 8,000
    I hated SS from start to finish. Such an obnoxious ugly film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    I hated SS from start to finish. Such an obnoxious ugly film.

    Well, to be frank, I wouldn't mind switching SS and WW84 in my ranking. Don't quite care for either. ;-)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,834
    With Suicide Squad, I liked the tone and the way the characters looked, but the story, what they did with those characters, and not to mention the way it was edited and scored was a real let down.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    There’s an excellent Escape From New York film hidden in that mess of a film. I wish I had access to the raw footage so I can be able to cut it as a tense thriller. Get rid of all the flashbacks. Re-score it.
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    Below SUICIDE SQUAD?

    That's beyond harsh.

    SS is a very weak entry but at least that first hour or so is enjoyable. At least it's trying to go for something. It fails, that's for sure, but at least there is a climax of people doing something.

    You see, I had the opposite experience with SS. I thought things improved a bit toward the end when the film settled into more of a straightforward formula of action sequences culminating in a good old-fashioned climax that somehow managed to tug on a couple heartstrings, whereas the never-ending introductions and re-introductions of various characters in the first half left me wondering just when the film was ever going to actually begin. But whichever half you prefer, there's no question the film is structurally a mess.
    There’s an excellent Escape From New York film hidden in that mess of a film. I wish I had access to the raw footage so I can be able to cut it as a tense thriller. Get rid of all the flashbacks. Re-score it.

    Haha, there is quite a bit of EFNY in there, isn't there? All the flashbacks definitely contributed to the film's structural confusion. The problem is they wanted to tell this EFNY-style Suicide Squad story as well as a Harley and Joker origin story, and the two just did not go together. All the Harley and Joker stuff should have been its own film entirely. It would have been much more appropriate in Birds of Prey, actually.

    Suicide Squad had some high points. It had a good cast and a cool soundtrack and its own colorful, twisted aesthetic. It just had no direction. As you say, the film was really let down in the editing room.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    If they had done a twist on the Death in the Family story with a standalone Batman film before Batman v Superman, it would have freed them up to focus on actual storytelling in both that and Suicide Squad as opposed to spending a chunk of time having to introduce several characters. But alas, that would have meant more time would have needed to be taken with the universe.
  • That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.
  • Posts: 9,730
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I have thoughts about this honestly and honestly my changes to the films I actually saw is kind of minimal

    Batman V Superman for example, I would literally end the film with Batman Superman and Wonder Woman about to battle with Doomsday. you end the movie with that shot you end the film with an excitement about the next one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    Risico007 wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I have thoughts about this honestly and honestly my changes to the films I actually saw is kind of minimal

    Batman V Superman for example, I would literally end the film with Batman Superman and Wonder Woman about to battle with Doomsday. you end the movie with that shot you end the film with an excitement about the next one.

    Oh no, no no no no. I'm sick and tired of these "Hobbit" formulas that treat films as just another episode-of-the-week. A film can be a part of a larger continuity, but it has to have a satisfying conclusion to its own story. The Doomsday battle was the exclamation mark to everything showcased in the previous acts. Whether people like it or not, it is the point in the film in which everything congeals. Also, the aftermath of this battle provides fertile ground for the next story. To end right before this battle and have the next one pick things up there, is to demote the film to the level of TV writing.
  • Posts: 9,730
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I have thoughts about this honestly and honestly my changes to the films I actually saw is kind of minimal

    Batman V Superman for example, I would literally end the film with Batman Superman and Wonder Woman about to battle with Doomsday. you end the movie with that shot you end the film with an excitement about the next one.

    Oh no, no no no no. I'm sick and tired of these "Hobbit" formulas that treat films as just another episode-of-the-week. A film can be a part of a larger continuity, but it has to have a satisfying conclusion to its own story. The Doomsday battle was the exclamation mark to everything showcased in the previous acts. Whether people like it or not, it is the point in the film in which everything congeals. Also, the aftermath of this battle provides fertile ground for the next story. To end right before this battle and have the next one pick things up there, is to demote the film to the level of TV writing.

    to be the climax of the film was Batman fighting Superman hence the title.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2020 Posts: 14,861
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I guess to be fair, Batman hardly needs yet another film to establish him. We know who Batman is at this point. And I think kicking off with a new Batman who has been around the block quite a few times was a nice way of doing it.
  • Risico007 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I have thoughts about this honestly and honestly my changes to the films I actually saw is kind of minimal

    Batman V Superman for example, I would literally end the film with Batman Superman and Wonder Woman about to battle with Doomsday. you end the movie with that shot you end the film with an excitement about the next one.

    Oh no, no no no no. I'm sick and tired of these "Hobbit" formulas that treat films as just another episode-of-the-week. A film can be a part of a larger continuity, but it has to have a satisfying conclusion to its own story. The Doomsday battle was the exclamation mark to everything showcased in the previous acts. Whether people like it or not, it is the point in the film in which everything congeals. Also, the aftermath of this battle provides fertile ground for the next story. To end right before this battle and have the next one pick things up there, is to demote the film to the level of TV writing.

    to be the climax of the film was Batman fighting Superman hence the title.

    I don’t really think the title of the film was meant to suggest that it was only going to be a fight between Batman and Superman. If it had, then it would’ve been called Batman VS Superman. Instead, the title “Batman V Superman” is meant to explore the philosophical differences between each character, to present a compare/contrast between each hero, something akin to a court case if you will. I leave the question of whether the film actually did that to each viewer, but there is a reason they chose “V” instead of “VS”
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    mtm wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I guess to be fair, Batman hardly needs yet another film to establish him.

    It would have been more beneficial to the other characters as opposed to Batman - your Jokers, your Harley Quinns, etc.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    mtm wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I guess to be fair, Batman hardly needs yet another film to establish him.

    It would have been more beneficial to the other characters as opposed to Batman - your Jokers, your Harley Quinns, etc.

    Which is easy. You just introduce them when Batman has already been around for awhile. Sort of like what they seem to be doing with THE BATMAN where our hero is already well established and cooperating with the police force, but the Riddler is a brand new character making his entrance.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    mtm wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I guess to be fair, Batman hardly needs yet another film to establish him.

    It would have been more beneficial to the other characters as opposed to Batman - your Jokers, your Harley Quinns, etc.

    Which is easy. You just introduce them when Batman has already been around for awhile. Sort of like what they seem to be doing with THE BATMAN where our hero is already well established and cooperating with the police force, but the Riddler is a brand new character making his entrance.

    Yep. Pretty much. I thought it would have been nice had we seen more of Harley before her transformation - akin to Selina in Batman Returns. Any of the stuff with Joker in Arkham would have fit nicely into a film that had A Death In The Family influences. I would have ended it with what became the opening scene of Batman v Superman - Bruce seeing Superman in the sky for the first time.

    Now, of course, there is only so much you can fix with that. Even if they had taken their time, you're still going to have things like Leto's casting as Joker and the arguments surrounding that. Some things you can't fix, even in your mind!
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 6,844
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I have thoughts about this honestly and honestly my changes to the films I actually saw is kind of minimal

    Batman V Superman for example, I would literally end the film with Batman Superman and Wonder Woman about to battle with Doomsday. you end the movie with that shot you end the film with an excitement about the next one.

    Oh no, no no no no. I'm sick and tired of these "Hobbit" formulas that treat films as just another episode-of-the-week. A film can be a part of a larger continuity, but it has to have a satisfying conclusion to its own story. The Doomsday battle was the exclamation mark to everything showcased in the previous acts. Whether people like it or not, it is the point in the film in which everything congeals. Also, the aftermath of this battle provides fertile ground for the next story. To end right before this battle and have the next one pick things up there, is to demote the film to the level of TV writing.

    I agree. While that would have been a thrilling way to cut to end credits—Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman standing together for the first time, ready to face an enemy as one—it would have ultimately left me disappointed that we didn't get to see the showdown and would also have left me wondering what Wonder Woman was doing in the film in the first place. In fact, the film still does kind of have that effect. She really doesn't need to be there. It's Bruce and Clark's story. But then that goes back to my earlier point of how DC is having to shoe-horn introductions into other characters' stories just to try to catch up with Marvel.

    In a weird way, Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, as successful as it was, handicapped DC in this regard by being its own closed-off thing. And for some reason DC is still trying out these non-continuity pictures like Joker and Reeves' The Batman. It ultimately comes off kind of like throwing things at the wall and seeing what will stick. But who knows, with all this new business about Spider-man bringing Raimi's verse into the fold and DC doing the same with Burton's Batman maybe everything will wind up a part of the same continuity at some point, haha. I wouldn't rule out that we haven't seen the last of Bale as Batman yet either.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    mtm wrote: »
    That's the problem: in their rush to compete with Marvel who had a solid jump on the game they went straight to the "team" pictures like BvS and JL before major characters like Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman had been introduced.

    I guess to be fair, Batman hardly needs yet another film to establish him.

    It would have been more beneficial to the other characters as opposed to Batman - your Jokers, your Harley Quinns, etc.

    Oh sure, I was just responding to the mention of BvsS.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    If anyone is interested, some photo's I took when Wonder Woman 1984 was being filmed at my workplace in Kingswood, Surrey. It was used as Maxwell Lord's Black Gold company building.
    20180902-161602--1.jpg
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    20180807152800.jpg
    IMG-20201113203136.jpg
    20180731080726.jpg
    20180730094835-1.jpg

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    That's pretty cool, @LeonardPine! :D Thanks for sharing.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That's pretty cool, @LeonardPine! :D Thanks for sharing.

    No problem @DarthDimi

    I will post some more later 👍

    It seems so long ago now, especially with the films delay. It was very strange seeing how much my workplace was in the film when I watched it.

    Shame the film itself was rather meh... 😕
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That's pretty cool, @LeonardPine! :D Thanks for sharing.

    No problem @DarthDimi

    I will post some more later 👍

    It seems so long ago now, especially with the films delay. It was very strange seeing how much my workplace was in the film when I watched it.

    Shame the film itself was rather meh... 😕

    Yeah, I agree. I thought it was good fun at first, but switched to "baaaaaad" upon my second viewing.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Some more photos I took on the Wonder Woman 1984 set at my work in Surrey, England.

    The Max Lord office set I snuck into...
    20180826100304.jpg
    The office set under construction
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    External goings on
    20180730112454.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    That's in Kingswood? I only know that as being lots of nice houses down leafy lanes and a golf course!

    I was working in a place a year or two back where they were filming the Guy Richie film The Gentlemen outside, and we were all marvelling at Matthew McConaughey from the canteen window, and I remember the young lady serving at the counter said she was going off next week to be in WW84! :)
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    mtm wrote: »
    That's in Kingswood? I only know that as being lots of nice houses down leafy lanes and a golf course!

    I was working in a place a year or two back where they were filming the Guy Richie film The Gentlemen outside, and we were all marvelling at Matthew McConaughey from the canteen window, and I remember the young lady serving at the counter said she was going off next week to be in WW84! :)

    People get quite shocked when the come across our vast building in Kingswood..😁

    Film companies love it...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I know there are a few things hidden there: the BBC have long had a bit of a secret tech lab there! :)
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 440
    I watched WW84 and Hunter Killer back to back a few days ago, so imagine my shock when that very same building in Kingswood popped up in both.

    (And oddly enough, doubling for a building in Washington DC both times.)

    aUw2Ydn.png
    BYWKJwG.png

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    I watched WW84 and Hunter Killer back to back a few days ago, so imagine my shock when that very same building in Kingswood popped up in both.

    (And oddly enough, doubling for a building in Washington DC both times.)

    aUw2Ydn.png
    BYWKJwG.png

    😄 It has that look about it!

    WW84 shot more stuff there than anyone else. The production were there for 9 weeks.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Yeah it's quite surprising they were using offices; I thought that stuff is usually cheaper to do on the stages. Maybe not.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah it's quite surprising they were using offices; I thought that stuff is usually cheaper to do on the stages. Maybe not.

    I had the exact same thought. Also considering the fact that in case reshoots were needed, the logistics behind securing that same location again would be more of a nightmare than simply rebuilding a few sets, no?
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