NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,005
    DCisared wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Regardless of my thoughts on Billie's title song, I do hope to hear it weaved throughout the film, something that I felt was pretty lacking in SP (unless I'm misremembering. I've tried to wipe most of that score and the film experience as a whole from my mind).

    It plays after the train fight during bond and maddie getting it on but that’s it.

    That's what I thought, it was the only usage of it I could remember.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 2,907
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    DCisared wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Regardless of my thoughts on Billie's title song, I do hope to hear it weaved throughout the film, something that I felt was pretty lacking in SP (unless I'm misremembering. I've tried to wipe most of that score and the film experience as a whole from my mind).

    It plays after the train fight during bond and maddie getting it on but that’s it.

    That's what I thought, it was the only usage of it I could remember.

    And it works very good there. One of only a few rare moments where the score stood out for me in SP. The train part is easily the best part of the film for me anyway.
    And I'm sure that the NTTD instrumential will work fine and be touching.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 2,942
    Not zimmer. Some russian girl singing her own theme song over Bond footage.


  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Costa Mucho
    Posts: 41,660
    Apologies if this has been posted before, I hadn't seen it yet, but here's the official instrumental of NTTD. I wonder how much of this orchestration has made it's way into the score or if the instrumental itself plays during the film at all. I can see 2:40 onwards playing over a final ending montange sequence like the Nolan batman films to end the Craig era... goosebumps...


    Excellent.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 35,005
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    DCisared wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Regardless of my thoughts on Billie's title song, I do hope to hear it weaved throughout the film, something that I felt was pretty lacking in SP (unless I'm misremembering. I've tried to wipe most of that score and the film experience as a whole from my mind).

    It plays after the train fight during bond and maddie getting it on but that’s it.

    That's what I thought, it was the only usage of it I could remember.

    And it works very good there. One of only a few rare moments where the score stood out for me in SP. The train part is easily the best part of the film for me anyway.
    And I'm sure that the NTTD instrumential will work fine and be touching.

    Agreed. It's the biggest highlight of the film for me.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,547
    For anyone wondering how Eilish's NTTD can be incorporated into Zimmer's score, this orchestration by a fan does a surprisingly good job (particularly from 2:10 onwards):

  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 521
    Which other Composer helped Zimmer on his film again? It was one of his crew but cant remember which one?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,485
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    Which other Composer helped Zimmer on his film again? It was one of his crew but cant remember which one?

    Steve Mazzaro.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 521
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    Which other Composer helped Zimmer on his film again? It was one of his crew but cant remember which one?

    Steve Mazzaro.

    Thank you
  • Posts: 3,135
    So as it turns out, one of the NTTD tracks in the first released official podcast episode is "Back to MI6" - the YouTube Content ID flagged it in this upload
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,432
    Ha! Great spot.
  • Posts: 292
    So it should be part of the Matera soundtrack and the return at MI6?
  • MalloryMallory Are you ready to get back to work?
    Posts: 1,448
    Part of it is from TND.
  • Posts: 1,199
    I have to say I am so tired of having these scores feature the base line from the Bond theme without going into the main guitar theme, at least for a moment. They have done this a lot during the Craig era and it always feels like they are almost embarrassed to break out the full theme the way they used to in the older films. This feels odd to me not having the main guitar riff and then throwing in the end cord. To me, it is VERY unsatisfying. There is some nice work here and I do hope THE Bond theme does make a strong appearance somewhere. To me the bass line just doesn't cut it on it's own.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,432
    I'd forgotten how much like Skyfall this sounds.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 3,534
    Yeah it sounds quite a lot like Newman. Anyway it’s too early to judge.
  • Considering how many Skyfall vibes I’ve been getting from NTTD, I guess it’s fitting that the soundtrack will be similar too...
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 3,534
    I think the soundtrack will feel like a culmination of all the Craig era, with themes reprised from both Newman and Arnold, filtered by Zimmer’s touch. So more guitars and a more pompous feeling to it.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,547
    Can someone point out where the music sounds like Skyfall?
  • mrlynxmrlynx Maine
    Posts: 26
    delfloria wrote: »
    I have to say I am so tired of having these scores feature the base line from the Bond theme without going into the main guitar theme, at least for a moment. They have done this a lot during the Craig era and it always feels like they are almost embarrassed to break out the full theme the way they used to in the older films. This feels odd to me not having the main guitar riff and then throwing in the end cord. To me, it is VERY unsatisfying. There is some nice work here and I do hope THE Bond theme does make a strong appearance somewhere. To me the bass line just doesn't cut it on it's own.

    I've noticed this as well. My gut tells me that it's because the guitar riff (aka "dun-duh-duh-duh-DUH-dun-dun-dun...etc") is the portion written by Monty Norman and EON just doesn't want to spend a fraction of their massive budget on royalties. It's the same reason why we don't hear the entirety of the climatic "buh-BUh-BUH BUH!" either. At some point they seemed to have noticed that the note progression part (which was John Barry's contribution) was recognizable enough to audiences.
  • Posts: 1,199
    mrlynx wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I have to say I am so tired of having these scores feature the base line from the Bond theme without going into the main guitar theme, at least for a moment. They have done this a lot during the Craig era and it always feels like they are almost embarrassed to break out the full theme the way they used to in the older films. This feels odd to me not having the main guitar riff and then throwing in the end cord. To me, it is VERY unsatisfying. There is some nice work here and I do hope THE Bond theme does make a strong appearance somewhere. To me the bass line just doesn't cut it on it's own.

    I've noticed this as well. My gut tells me that it's because the guitar riff (aka "dun-duh-duh-duh-DUH-dun-dun-dun...etc") is the portion written by Monty Norman and EON just doesn't want to spend a fraction of their massive budget on royalties. It's the same reason why we don't hear the entirety of the climatic "buh-BUh-BUH BUH!" either. At some point they seemed to have noticed that the note progression part (which was John Barry's contribution) was recognizable enough to audiences.

    Which is sad state of affairs.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 3 Posts: 3,845
    jake24 wrote: »
    Can someone point out where the music sounds like Skyfall?

    Yeah, I think it might be the somewhat sonic or liquid guitar style. Like Newman's Komodo Dragon from SF and the way Newman plays the Bond theme when Bond captures Silva on his island, although this particular track is sort of unreleased, as it's not on the album. And Newman's Breadcrumbs from SF, also have that liquid guitar style.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,778
    mrlynx wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I have to say I am so tired of having these scores feature the base line from the Bond theme without going into the main guitar theme, at least for a moment. They have done this a lot during the Craig era and it always feels like they are almost embarrassed to break out the full theme the way they used to in the older films. This feels odd to me not having the main guitar riff and then throwing in the end cord. To me, it is VERY unsatisfying. There is some nice work here and I do hope THE Bond theme does make a strong appearance somewhere. To me the bass line just doesn't cut it on it's own.

    I've noticed this as well. My gut tells me that it's because the guitar riff (aka "dun-duh-duh-duh-DUH-dun-dun-dun...etc") is the portion written by Monty Norman and EON just doesn't want to spend a fraction of their massive budget on royalties. It's the same reason why we don't hear the entirety of the climatic "buh-BUh-BUH BUH!" either. At some point they seemed to have noticed that the note progression part (which was John Barry's contribution) was recognizable enough to audiences.

    I don’t think that’s the case. Norman still gets credited for the theme. It doesn’t matter how much it’s used in a film because he’s still getting royalties off of it. The simple reason why the Bond theme isn’t as prominent in Craig’s films is because of how David Arnold decided to only use it minimally in CR and that determined the musical direction of Craig’s run. Composers learned they can get away with making a Bond score without using the theme as a crutch like Arnold famously did with TND.

    Also, EON has paid more in royalties over use of source music in Craig’s era than any other, like how Silva’s arrival at Skyfall has the Animals song “Boom Boom” blaring, “always gotta make an entrance”. So the theory of using the Norman theme less so to not pay royalties doesn’t exactly hold up.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,432
    jake24 wrote: »
    Can someone point out where the music sounds like Skyfall?

    Using a guitar to play the vamp part of the theme is something I believe has only been heard in Skyfall before, when the helicopters appear at Silva's island.
    mrlynx wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I have to say I am so tired of having these scores feature the base line from the Bond theme without going into the main guitar theme, at least for a moment. They have done this a lot during the Craig era and it always feels like they are almost embarrassed to break out the full theme the way they used to in the older films. This feels odd to me not having the main guitar riff and then throwing in the end cord. To me, it is VERY unsatisfying. There is some nice work here and I do hope THE Bond theme does make a strong appearance somewhere. To me the bass line just doesn't cut it on it's own.

    I've noticed this as well. My gut tells me that it's because the guitar riff (aka "dun-duh-duh-duh-DUH-dun-dun-dun...etc") is the portion written by Monty Norman and EON just doesn't want to spend a fraction of their massive budget on royalties. It's the same reason why we don't hear the entirety of the climatic "buh-BUh-BUH BUH!" either. At some point they seemed to have noticed that the note progression part (which was John Barry's contribution) was recognizable enough to audiences.

    I don’t think that’s the case. Norman still gets credited for the theme. It doesn’t matter how much it’s used in a film because he’s still getting royalties off of it. The simple reason why the Bond theme isn’t as prominent in Craig’s films is because of how David Arnold decided to only use it minimally in CR and that determined the musical direction of Craig’s run. Composers learned they can get away with making a Bond score without using the theme as a crutch like Arnold famously did with TND.

    Yes, I think it's arguable that Arnold used it perhaps a bit too much in TND. There's a sweet spot somewhere between that and QoS's use of it! :)
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    mtm wrote: »

    Yes, I think it's arguable that Arnold used it perhaps a bit too much in TND. There's a sweet spot somewhere between that and QoS's use of it! :)

    While I like the QOS score, it’s still a bit too minimalist with the Bond theme for me. I like the use in Oil Fields for example, but I really miss it in a track like Pursuit at Port-au-Prince. It’s a good track, but every time I see that boat chase I’m waiting for the theme to kick in. Yes, maybe Arnold overused it in TND, but I miss the Bond theme being used for a continuous time (in an action scene) like the bike chase in TND or the Thames boat chase in TWINE. Nowadays, the theme gets used to punctuate a single moment, rather than a whole scene. This worked for me in CR as thematically, we get snippets of the theme when Bond gets or earns his Bondian elements - after winning the DB5, putting on the dinner jacket - and then plays in full at that sublime final line of the film. Plus, the instrumental YNMN is a great theme used throughout.
    By QOS, the guy has become the Bond we know, but the theme is once again used fleetingly. When Bond arrives in Haiti, we hear the Bond theme as transition music. It punctuates Bonds climbing through the hotel in the aforementioned Oil Fields. But it’s never clearly heard, or at least not clear enough to me.
    Then we get to SF, and Newman takes a page out of QOS’s book to use the theme for punctuating a few seconds. When Bond grabs the train and climbs up, or when the helicopters arrive. Sure, it’s heroic, a power up moment, but it’s over before you know it. And whereas Arnold filled that void by using secondary themes (YNMN and Vesper in CR, Vesper and a theme that would later become No Good About Goodbye in QOS), Newman does not really do that. We get one reprise of Adele’s song, and I like the Tennyson bit, but a bit more Bond theme would’ve helped.
    And then there’s SP. I was ecstatic when I saw the PTS: Bond leaping out of the window and the theme kicked in. Unfortunately, my goodwill for the score disappeared when I recognised the music during the helicopter fight. And while I like SF’s score better, I get the feeling Newman really tried to get more theme in. I adore the choir version of the Bond theme at the Vatican, I liked Madeleine’s piano theme, I think the instrumental WOTW was used well - though I would’ve liked more. But then Bond escapes the Morocco lair without any Bond theme, and in the finale we get two seconds of theme as Bond and Madeleine fall in the net, and 20 minutes of The Moors played on monotonous repeat. Nope, I’m not happy.

    With Zimmer, I indeed fear that trend that started with CR will be kept - Bond theme only used to punctuate single moments, and not throughout an action scene. And I feel that’s really going to annoy me. In the leaked track, he keeps repeating this one part of the Bond theme - Newman did this as well, but never so egregious. And it annoys me as a listener and as a Bond fan - I keep expecting that it gets resolved, that we get the theme in full.
    But maybe, just maybe, it’s Billie Eilish’s song that’ll work as a backbone, like YNMN before it. Will I bemoan the potential lack of Bond theme? Yes. But I’m not ready to fully condemn the score if Zimmer simply continues the musical trend of this reboot Bond. The rest of the score might be good.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    edited January 4 Posts: 4,778
    I don’t mind it because pre-Brosnan era the full theme wasn’t always utilized. Films that come to mind are GF, TB, and DAF, which used the theme to punctuate moments but otherwise used original compositions such as the title theme, which was definitely lacking in all the Craig films aside from CR with YNMN. Since Zimmer is supposedly utilizing the Eillish theme, that void is being filled.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 4 Posts: 8,432
    SP actually uses the theme an awful lot in the first half or so: there’s a little quote of it practically every time Bond appears. But never a full quote of it for action, no.
    I don’t mind it because pre-Brosnan era the full theme wasn’t always utilized. Films that come to mind are GF, TB, and DAF, which used the theme to punctuate moments but otherwise used original compositions such as the title theme, which was definitely lacking in all the Craig films aside from CR with YNMN. Since Zimmer is supposedly utilizing the Eillish theme, that void is being filled.

    I always think I would have liked to have heard a full version of YKMN playing for an action scene, maybe the airport chase, but he never really does it.
  • Posts: 351
    I would imagine one of the main reasons why NTTD will feature the song frequently weaved in throughout the score is the exact same reason why this hasn't usually been the case for the last three decades.

    Up until the late 80s, the person who wrote the score for a Bond movie was also allowed to either write or at the very least, arrange, the music for the title song as well. Since then, however, this has rarely been the case.

    So I get why composers like David Arnold and Thomas Newman aren't very eager to base a lot of their scores on pieces of music that they themselves had no hand in writing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,778
    I would imagine one of the main reasons why NTTD will feature the song frequently weaved in throughout the score is the exact same reason why this hasn't usually been the case for the last three decades.

    Up until the late 80s, the person who wrote the score for a Bond movie was also allowed to either write or at the very least, arrange, the music for the title song as well. Since then, however, this has rarely been the case.

    So I get why composers like David Arnold and Thomas Newman aren't very eager to base a lot of their scores on pieces of music that they themselves had no hand in writing.

    Pretty much. And John Barry was never going to score a film unless he had a hand in the title song. Supposedly that was one of the sticking points over TND, EON wasn't guaranteeing that he would get a crack at the song. And look what happened with Arnold and "Surrender" when they decided to go with a different artist's song.

    Hans Zimmer is probably the most collaborative and prolific composer to score a Bond film since John Barry, so it makes sense that he would have more of a say regarding the song. After all, he was the one that actually selected Billie Eilish. She would have never gotten this gig if it wasn't for Zimmer.
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