Do you have any concerns or niggles about NTTD ,or are you full of confidence ?

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  • edited June 2020 Posts: 231
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Fleming’s Bond (regardless of how offended modern audiences may be by his biases) could not be black (or Latino, Asian, etc).

    EON's Bond is a different entity than Fleming's Bond. That bridge has been crossed a long time ago with camp, terrible CGI, and all sorts of ridiculous things, yet people expect Bond to be strictly Fleming lore when it comes to skin color.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,353
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Fleming’s Bond (regardless of how offended modern audiences may be by his biases) could not be black (or Latino, Asian, etc).

    EON's Bond is a different entity than Fleming's Bond. That bridge has been crossed a long time ago with camp, terrible CGI, and all sorts of ridiculous things, yet people expect Bond to be strictly Fleming lore when it comes to skin color.

    A great many people disliked a lot of those things too.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    I hope that No Time To Die fleshes out the relationship between Bond and Madeleine more prior to the crux of the film. I personally didn't buy their chemistry in Spectre and thought it was pretty thin overall. I believed Bond and Vesper because their relationship had multiple layers. You don't get that with Bond and Madeleine and I don't buy that Bond would throw it all away for this woman, IMO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    Which is conceptually crazy, because I could buy Bond giving it all away for a woman played by Léa Seydoux, and yet the movie doesn’t quite sell that somehow!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,708
    Their relationship lacks some weight, especially since everything happens too quick, but there’s chemistry between the two and the way they officially fall in each other’s arms - the “what do we do now” scene - is very powerful and cool. Their first meeting is good too and I also love the “I’m scared James” scene where, alone in the desert driving to possible death, he takes her hand without saying anything. The scene where they “officially” create a strong bond anyway it’s the scene where she chooses to look at him instead of her father’s videotape and I have to say it’s a very powerful moment, or in other words, the things that bring people together... Bond and Vesper never shared together such a tense situation, before falling in love, even tho the Bond/Vesper romance is far better handled. NTTD exploring further Swann’s character and Bond’s feelings towards her is definitely a good thing, anyway.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    As much as i rank SP at bottom, Lea and Daniel's chemistry was good for me, from their first interaction at the clinic when he gave her the news about her father's death,
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQz34R2Qyt1iw1kNcs-olwY6jWshHCKk4rDmw&usqp=CAU
    to her telling the story about the man who once came to their house.
    tumblr_o559xnFtnK1up42jgo2_500.gifv
    to L'american hotel(my favorite part of the film).
    tumblr_pw2j0gXJKr1xnfenuo4_1280.gif

    It got messed up when she said "i love you" at Blofeld's Lair and later it went downhill when bond left her in London. This film had many issues but their chemistry is not one of those.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2020 Posts: 4,341
    They should have really played up the idea that she really didn't like him at first, because she really switches after she awakens and they find the secret room, which is really odd. It's like her frustration towards Bond just went away after a nap, which seemed really odd.

    For me, they should have developed that "hatred" she has for Bond even more, and walk that fine line of tension. Maybe have Bond fall for her first, and I think it would make sense because he had a version of that tension with Vesper. Then have the train scene be a moment of conflict for her as when she helps Bond, she seems to find feelings developing.

    In the car on the way to the base, make it more Madeleine notices that Bond takes her to comfort her. She's conflicted but she takes his hand.

    I also think it would've been more interesting if Bond didn't tell Madeleine that Mr. White died, or just says that he was dead when he found him and found clues to her, or something. Just to make that scene in Blofeld's base where she finally sees it be more meaningly and gives more of a reason why Bond wouldn't want her to see it.

    And then when you get to the part with the drill it can be more of a conflict. Is Madeleine gonna try and save him? No. Yes. We know she hated him at first, and know she knows he helped her father kill himself, but she did also feel something for him. And she knows he wants to help her.

    And then she decides to save him. No I love you. They just find this level of appreciation for each other in this moment, and then, in London, I think Madeleine and Bond should be kidnapped in the car crash instead of her going off on her own for no reason.

    Then by the bridge sequence, the conflict with Bond and Madeleine, and Mr. White's death, and more ongoing conversations about whether Bond's life is worth it... have him walk towards her. Throw the gun maybe and then they go off together - leaving all the I love you stuff for No Time to Die after an appropriate amount of time.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 630
    Denbigh wrote: »
    They should have really played up the idea that she really didn't like him at first, because she really switches after she awakens and they find the secret room, which is really odd. It's like her frustration towards Bond just went away after a nap, which seemed really odd.

    For me, they should have developed that "hatred" she has for Bond even more, and walk that fine line of tension. Maybe have Bond fall for her first, and I think it would make sense because he had a version of that tension with Vesper. Then have the train scene be a moment of conflict for her as when she helps Bond, she seems to find feelings developing.

    In the car on the way to the base, make it more Madeleine notices that Bond takes her to comfort her. She's conflicted but she takes his hand.

    I also think it would've been more interesting if Bond didn't tell Madeleine that Mr. White died, or just says that he was dead when he found him and found clues to her, or something. Just to make that scene in Blofeld's base where she finally sees it be more meaningly and gives more of a reason why Bond wouldn't want her to see it.

    And then when you get to the part with the drill it can be more of a conflict. Is Madeleine gonna try and save him? No. Yes. We know she hated him at first, and know she knows he helped her father kill himself, but she did also feel something for him. And she knows he wants to help her.

    And then she decides to save him. No I love you. They just find this level of appreciation for each other in this moment, and then, in London, I think Madeleine and Bond should be kidnapped in the car crash instead of her going off on her own for no reason.

    Then by the bridge sequence, the conflict with Bond and Madeleine, and Mr. White's death, and more ongoing conversations about whether Bond's life is worth it... have him walk towards her. Throw the gun maybe and then they go off together - leaving all the I love you stuff for No Time to Die after an appropriate amount of time.

    Or maybe he could just have banged her in the speedboat at the end and then we never hear from her again?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,341
    Denbigh wrote: »
    They should have really played up the idea that she really didn't like him at first, because she really switches after she awakens and they find the secret room, which is really odd. It's like her frustration towards Bond just went away after a nap, which seemed really odd.

    For me, they should have developed that "hatred" she has for Bond even more, and walk that fine line of tension. Maybe have Bond fall for her first, and I think it would make sense because he had a version of that tension with Vesper. Then have the train scene be a moment of conflict for her as when she helps Bond, she seems to find feelings developing.

    In the car on the way to the base, make it more Madeleine notices that Bond takes her to comfort her. She's conflicted but she takes his hand.

    I also think it would've been more interesting if Bond didn't tell Madeleine that Mr. White died, or just says that he was dead when he found him and found clues to her, or something. Just to make that scene in Blofeld's base where she finally sees it be more meaningly and gives more of a reason why Bond wouldn't want her to see it.

    And then when you get to the part with the drill it can be more of a conflict. Is Madeleine gonna try and save him? No. Yes. We know she hated him at first, and know she knows he helped her father kill himself, but she did also feel something for him. And she knows he wants to help her.

    And then she decides to save him. No I love you. They just find this level of appreciation for each other in this moment, and then, in London, I think Madeleine and Bond should be kidnapped in the car crash instead of her going off on her own for no reason.

    Then by the bridge sequence, the conflict with Bond and Madeleine, and Mr. White's death, and more ongoing conversations about whether Bond's life is worth it... have him walk towards her. Throw the gun maybe and then they go off together - leaving all the I love you stuff for No Time to Die after an appropriate amount of time.

    Or maybe he could just have banged her in the speedboat at the end and then we never hear from her again?
    In the Connery version of Spectre - probably.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    I get the sense that the moment in Spectre where Blofeld shows the videotape of Mr. White shooting himself and Bond is crying out for Madeleine not to watch was intended to send a different message, but unfortunately as mentioned the relationship seems too rushed for me to buy into it, personally. I feel that we have to put these thoughts aside for No Time To Die as it seems based upon the trailer they are head over heels for one another following the events of the former film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    What intrigues me is that NTTD has a whole different crew behind it rather than the same people that did SP, so I'm curious to how they handle that.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Maybe it will take The Last Jedi approach and forget the film before it.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,708
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Maybe it will take The Last Jedi approach and forget the film before it.

    It’s gonna be different but not that 360 degree different. TLJ was actually the opposite.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,353
    I think NTTD will probably work in some of the things we've talked about. We've spent a long time discussing Bond and Swann's relationship as not being believable, they "fall in love too quickly", and they don't actually know each other very well. Well, by the looks of it, we were certainly right about that. It looks as though the Matera stuff is not that long after the events of SP, when the adrenaline of the situation has subsided and they actually have to spend some downtime together. In NTTD, Bond looks like he is about to get to know the real Madeleine Swann.

    If they can make that plot element, that relationship, seem organic then the film will already be something to appreciate writing-wise.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 4,341
    No Time to Die does already benefits from giving the relationship time, even in Matera.
  • Posts: 2,091
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Fleming’s Bond (regardless of how offended modern audiences may be by his biases) could not be black (or Latino, Asian, etc).

    EON's Bond is a different entity than Fleming's Bond. That bridge has been crossed a long time ago with camp, terrible CGI, and all sorts of ridiculous things, yet people expect Bond to be strictly Fleming lore when it comes to skin color.

    I expect Bond to NOT be a different entity than Fleming's Bond, even though that bridge has been crossed many times over the years.

    And when EON do annoyingly cross that bridge, they often try to bring it back directly afterwards (YOLT>OHMSS, MR>FYEO, DAD>CR, etc.)

    They never stray too far from the origins of Bond, regardless of ridiculous wolf whistle car stunts, Tarzan yells, CGI ice surfing, double taking pigeons, invisible cars, etc.)

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    I could easily buy Idris Elba in the role for the modern era because he does have the right swagger and edge to pull it off as Bond. But that window passed IMO because now he’s too old for it. Same with Fassbender, who would have been an ideal 1950s period Bond.
  • Posts: 695
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Maybe it will take The Last Jedi approach and forget the film before it.

    More like The Rise Of Skywalker approach.Given that movie did all it could to retcon what The Last Jedi did and actually seemed like an apology for it.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 2,708
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Maybe it will take The Last Jedi approach and forget the film before it.

    More like The Rise Of Skywalker approach.Given that movie did all it could to retcon what The Last Jedi did and actually seemed like an apology for it.

    They’re not picking up everything SP established in order to retcon it. On the contrary Cary clearly wanted to expand it, since there was a lot of cool but underdeveloped material.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Maybe it will take The Last Jedi approach and forget the film before it.

    More like The Rise Of Skywalker approach.Given that movie did all it could to retcon what The Last Jedi did and actually seemed like an apology for it.

    That's what I meant! Got the movies confused, ha!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 3,949
    To do the equivalent of what The Rise of Skywalker did, the latest Bond film would have to do something like reveal that Blofeld was never Oberhauser all along but rather was a guy named Blofeld who assumed Oberhauser's identity and went through plastic surgery to look like him, even though he went onto ditch Oberhauser's name anyway. That's the level of stupid TROS worked on.

    As dumb as the foster brother thing is, I rather NTTD just flat out never bring it up again rather than work to retcon it. Blofeld already has more grievances with Bond than just the daddy issues, like foiling the Nine Eyes plot and getting him arrested by the government. The foster brother thing would just be moot by that point.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited July 2020 Posts: 2,541
    To do the equivalent of what The Rise of Skywalker did, the latest Bond film would have to do something like reveal that Blofeld was never Oberhauser all along but rather was a guy named Blofeld who assumed Oberhauser's identity and went through plastic surgery to look like him, even though he went onto ditch Oberhauser's name anyway. That's the level of stupid TROS worked on.

    As dumb as the foster brother thing is, I rather NTTD just flat out never bring it up again rather than work to retcon it. Blofeld already has more grievances with Bond than just the daddy issues, like foiling the Nine Eyes plot and getting him arrested by the government. The foster brother thing would just be moot by that point.

    I believe they will show their brother love but Blofeld won't be talking about his father and daddy Issues anymore which is good thing imo.
  • edited July 2020 Posts: 741
    Given the WB statement "we are not treating Tenet like a traditional global day-and-date release" makes me feel like it is inevitable that NTTD will release in late 2020 in Europe and mid 2021 at best in the USA. Can't say I'm too happy about that, being in the USA myself. Does that count as a concern or niggle?
  • edited July 2020 Posts: 322
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Given the WB statement "we are not treating Tenet like a traditional global day-and-date release" makes me feel like it is inevitable that NTTD will release in late 2020 in Europe and mid 2021 at best in the USA. Can't say I'm too happy about that, being in the USA myself. Does that count as a concern or niggle?

    I don't know if you should be too worried about them releasing Tenet worldwide weeks or even months ahead of the US date.

    "One source in close contact with the studios tells Variety that if Warner Bros. and Disney were facing a scenario in which Europe and Asia open first with “Tenet” and “Mulan” followed by the U.S. a couple of weeks later, “they’d do it every day of the week.” “The problem is they don’t know when the U.S. market is going to open up, and they’re not comfortable going longer than two weeks due to piracy.”

    https://variety.com/2020/film/global/tenet-global-box-office-international-exhibitors-forgotten-1234710870/
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2020 Posts: 2,708
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Given the WB statement "we are not treating Tenet like a traditional global day-and-date release" makes me feel like it is inevitable that NTTD will release in late 2020 in Europe and mid 2021 at best in the USA. Can't say I'm too happy about that, being in the USA myself. Does that count as a concern or niggle?

    I think Bond will wait for an optimal window even if it takes waiting November 21. The same can’t be said about WB since they’re not in a position to postpone the film until everything is kind of “pre-Covid”. Too many movies to release and that will be ready to be released.
  • Posts: 741
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    Given the WB statement "we are not treating Tenet like a traditional global day-and-date release" makes me feel like it is inevitable that NTTD will release in late 2020 in Europe and mid 2021 at best in the USA. Can't say I'm too happy about that, being in the USA myself. Does that count as a concern or niggle?

    I don't know if you should be too worried about them releasing Tenet worldwide weeks or even months ahead of the US date.

    "One source in close contact with the studios tells Variety that if Warner Bros. and Disney were facing a scenario in which Europe and Asia open first with “Tenet” and “Mulan” followed by the U.S. a couple of weeks later, “they’d do it every day of the week.” “The problem is they don’t know when the U.S. market is going to open up, and they’re not comfortable going longer than two weeks due to piracy.”

    https://variety.com/2020/film/global/tenet-global-box-office-international-exhibitors-forgotten-1234710870/

    Good point, thanks!
  • At this point, I don't really have any concerns or niggles about NTTD at all - I just want the film to come out. Nothing else about the film matters at this point!
  • Posts: 1,112
    At one point I did not have any niggles but as more info seeps out the more I'm beginning to worry about the story as well as the release problem.
  • Posts: 2,361
    delfloria wrote: »
    At one point I did not have any niggles but as more info seeps out the more I'm beginning to worry about the story as well as the release problem.

    It will be incredibly disappointing to have waited all this time if it's not one of the best Bond films.
  • MeetBondMeetBond Mar-a-lago
    Posts: 27
    It won’t be. The best Bond films aren’t cobbled together by script doctors two weeks before shooting starts.

    If anyone has any confidence in this product (I hesitate to call it a film) at this stage they’re in La La Land.
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