GOTHAM (TV Series 2014 – )

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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,835
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Watching Daredevil now on Netflix, the first episode. They seem to have got right everything Gotham got wrong.

    I honestly don't know if there's a show on TV that got wrong as much as Gotham did.

    Supergirl is heading this way.

    The difference being that Supergirl is being made by people who know what they're doing. I didn't judge Gotham before I saw it, so I'm not judging Supergirl before I see it. I was certain I'd hate Arrow, too, but I've since come to love that show.
  • Posts: 13,267
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Watching Daredevil now on Netflix, the first episode. They seem to have got right everything Gotham got wrong.

    I honestly don't know if there's a show on TV that got wrong as much as Gotham did.

    Supergirl is heading this way.

    The difference being that Supergirl is being made by people who know what they're doing. I didn't judge Gotham before I saw it, so I'm not judging Supergirl before I see it. I was certain I'd hate Arrow, too, but I've since come to love that show.

    You mean they know they are doing something bad? Off topic, but it seems they are making Ugly Betty with superpowers.

    About Gotham, they seem to be making it up as they are going along.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,835
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Watching Daredevil now on Netflix, the first episode. They seem to have got right everything Gotham got wrong.

    I honestly don't know if there's a show on TV that got wrong as much as Gotham did.

    Supergirl is heading this way.

    The difference being that Supergirl is being made by people who know what they're doing. I didn't judge Gotham before I saw it, so I'm not judging Supergirl before I see it. I was certain I'd hate Arrow, too, but I've since come to love that show.

    You mean they know they are doing something bad? Off topic, but it seems they are making Ugly Betty with superpowers.

    About Gotham, they seem to be making it up as they are going along.

    I've seen this "Ugly Betty with superpowers" thing a billion times, and I'm too lazy to go to Wikipedia to see if this is actually the case but, is the woman playing Supergirl actually the woman who played the title character in Ugly Betty, or are they just comparing the workplace situation?

    The idea that Gotham's writers are making things up as they go along isn't just obvious between episodes but between scenes. The finale was a prime example of that. They don't seem to have an over arching story and what they do have is muddied by characters that have no point in that particular episode. Why was Selina there at all in the finale? Just to friggin' have Selina Kyle in the finale, that's it. Why was Fish still alive when she was given a fatal wound while flying a f*cking helicopter?! Because Fish just needed to be there for some reason.
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 1,552
    I enjoyed both, definitely preferred Daredevil, but you can't compare them.

    Gotham was on Network TV, they were restricted to what they could do. Daredevil is on Netflix so they can be much more adult, with storylines and action that Gotham, Arrow and the Flash could only dream of.

    It's like comparing something on ABC to something on HBO or Showtime
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,835
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I enjoyed both, definitely preferred Daredevil, but you can't compare them.

    Gotham was on Network TV, they were restricted to what they could do. Daredevil is on Netflix so they can be much more adult, with storylines and action that Gotham, Arrow and the Flash could only dream of.

    It's like comparing something on ABC to something on HBO or Showtime

    One of the biggest problems with Gotham is that it tried to straddle that line between the adult and the ridiculously f*cking cartoony. Milo Ventimiglia's 50 Shades apartment, that weird club that Bullock found where somebody was going to do something outrageously disgusting with that goat (the mental image of what might have been disturbs me), and Fish carving out her own eye (the coolest thing Fish ever did on the show, besides take a bullet and fall to her death) - these were all things that tried to make the show seem more adult, but made it seem only more cartoony as a result, because they did nothing with them. I'm glad we didn't see what Bullock saw at that club, but at the very least leaving Fish without an eye would have rocked in this show, but they didn't do it.
  • Posts: 13,267
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Watching Daredevil now on Netflix, the first episode. They seem to have got right everything Gotham got wrong.

    I honestly don't know if there's a show on TV that got wrong as much as Gotham did.

    Supergirl is heading this way.

    The difference being that Supergirl is being made by people who know what they're doing. I didn't judge Gotham before I saw it, so I'm not judging Supergirl before I see it. I was certain I'd hate Arrow, too, but I've since come to love that show.

    You mean they know they are doing something bad? Off topic, but it seems they are making Ugly Betty with superpowers.

    About Gotham, they seem to be making it up as they are going along.

    I've seen this "Ugly Betty with superpowers" thing a billion times, and I'm too lazy to go to Wikipedia to see if this is actually the case but, is the woman playing Supergirl actually the woman who played the title character in Ugly Betty, or are they just comparing the workplace situation?

    The idea that Gotham's writers are making things up as they go along isn't just obvious between episodes but between scenes. The finale was a prime example of that. They don't seem to have an over arching story and what they do have is muddied by characters that have no point in that particular episode. Why was Selina there at all in the finale? Just to friggin' have Selina Kyle in the finale, that's it. Why was Fish still alive when she was given a fatal wound while flying a f*cking helicopter?! Because Fish just needed to be there for some reason.

    And here I am, thinking I had invented the analogy. It is not merely the working place, if you see the trailer. It is the whole attitude, tone, etc. They even have a Wilhelmina Slater character, featured fairly heavily! Trying to find her place and prove herself as an employee, it's a wonder Supergirl will have time to fight supervillains.

    Come to think of it, and to get back on topic, Fish is a bit a Wilhelmina Slater kind of character. No wonder Gotham is bad. It is Ugly Betty with more blood and less fashion.
  • Posts: 1,552
    @ludovico I agree - From the trailer, Supergirl looks like a mix between Ugly Betty, a bad Soap Opera and a bad 80s/90s superhero movie - but I'll give it a go, I'm hoping the trailer is misleading.
  • Posts: 1,107
    Supergirl tv show is created by Arrow and The Flash's Greg Berlanti and writer Ali Adler I have faith in them .
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2015 Posts: 19,802
    My halfway-through-season-one criticism of Gotham

    *AND THERE WILL BE SPOILERS*

    I'm a Batman fan - I know, this isn't Batman - and this is how I live that fandom: I read on average five Batman comics every day, watch the movies once every year, play the Arkham video games over and over and think up Batman stories myself, just for fun. But again, this isn't Batman, I know!

    Then again, Gotham is set in the Batman universe, no denying that. Now, one of the things any fan of Batman quickly learns, is that screenwriters and comic book artists take certain liberties. Every once in a while, an origin story is re-told in a different way. Characters' relationships can change too over time. But some things never change. Take Dracula as an example. Sometimes Mina and Lucy are sisters, sometimes they are just good friends and sometimes there's really only one of them in the story. But Dracula is always the vampire and Van Helsing the guy that's going to fight him. If some 'illuminated' screenwriter decides to make Van Helsing Dracula's school buddy from when they were both young football jocks in Transylvania High, we'd all reject that...

    ... and that's precisely how I feel about Gotham, now only 10 episodes in. What's with "the Cat" and young Bruce sharing adventures together? Whether you read Bill Finger and Bob Kane's introduction of the feline burglar or you turn to Miller's Year One instead, there's never such a personal youth connection. What's with Gordon and his personal quarrels? Barb and Essen rather than Gordon and Essen? Come now... Nigma working for the cops? Gordon starting out taking orders from Bullock? And that whole thing with Penguin. That dude doesn't look anything like Penguin in whatever incarnation. Not to mention that ridiculous character of Fish Mooney. I mean, the Batman universe - I know, this isn't Batman - isn't big enough for them as it is? Also, everyone, it's pronounced "FalconEEE".

    I know, this isn't Batman, trust me, I know. But even a spin-off can at least try to respect cemented elements from the Batman universe. Penguin and Catwoman are A-listers in said universe. You don't just take unlimited liberties with these characters. Copperhead, Zsasz and even Bullock, not so big a deal. There's a young ginger girl named Ivy. Please don't tell me she's going to end up as you-know-who. Firstly, her name would be Pamela, but then again, maybe that's her middle name or something. The Ivy thing can just be coincidence, I don't know, but if one way or another she's destined to end up as our sexy plant lady, she's not Ivy Pepper but Pamela Lillian Isley.

    Anyway, I'll keep watching the remaining episodes in this first season and then make up my mind. So far I think the series is well-acted and at times well 'dressed', but like every TV series dowsed in redundant dialogue just to fill the 42 minute quota. I'm not fond of how long it takes for plot lines that matter to evolve and at times I think the story just sucks. As a Batman fan - I know, this isn't Batman - I find myself still struggling with this spin-off. I feel alienated as it were, like I have too much fan love for some of the characters in the Batman universe to go with what takes place in this series. But I'm patient so we'll see.
  • Posts: 13,267
    I always find ironic that they tried to sell Gotham as not Batman... while at the same using the city of Batman, the characters of Batman, the rogue gallery of Batman, the boy who would become Batman and the event that made him Batman.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,835
    @DarthDimi, I want to write a Dracula story involving Dracula and Van Helsing in high school playing football now. Thank you very much.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2015 Posts: 19,802
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I always find ironic that they tried to sell Gotham as not Batman... while at the same using the city of Batman, the characters of Batman, the rogue gallery of Batman, the boy who would become Batman and the event that made him Batman.

    So true, @Ludovico! Calling it a spin-off is one thing but they're basically turning it into a prequel. And that's where the problems begin. I can't help trying to connect everything to the established Batman universe because, well, we're knee-deep into the Wayne murder investigation, the rise to power of Penguin, Gordon's turbulent career and more of that. So telling me I shouldn't try to think of this as a Batman story is utterly ridiculous! That might work if this were a real spin-off but this is not that.
    @DarthDimi, I want to write a Dracula story involving Dracula and Van Helsing in high school playing football now. Thank you very much.

    @Agent007391, let me help you.
    Van Helsing, Big Abe to his friend, tosses the ball to his frennemy Drake a.k.a. the Count, yelling, "Yo, Drake, I'm gonna make you bite the dust!" - "I'm gonna bite you before that, Abe!", Drake replied.
    Not knowing whether to laugh or get angry, Van Helsing makes a cross with his two forefingers and shows it as a sign of intensified field competition to Drake. The latter responds by pulling back his lips so that two abnormally big fangs are revealed. Though most would find that scary, Van Helsing can only chuckle, remembering a story told by Lucy Westenra, the cute blonde cheerleader whom Drake at one point had tried to seduce. Not knowing that it was that part of the month, and with his fangs hungrily out, Drake had gone d ---

    This is where I must break it off. Family friendly forum and all. ;-)
  • Posts: 8,717
    @DarthDimi, I want to write a Dracula story involving Dracula and Van Helsing in high school playing football now. Thank you very much.
    and in said story I want jada Pickett smith to overact to her hearts content.



  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,835
    Risico007 wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, I want to write a Dracula story involving Dracula and Van Helsing in high school playing football now. Thank you very much.
    and in said story I want jada Pickett smith to overact to her hearts content.



    Nope. She has no role. Sad how one of the better cast members of the Matrix sequels has fallen so far.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,802
    She was great in Collateral. ;-)
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