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"Just cutting off your earlobes doesn't make you a count." Your Bond 23 Title

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2011 Posts: 5,979
    I'm still not seeing your point. The novel titles are not decided by EON, but nor are the video game titles.
    That's my point. EON has nothing to do with the novel titles, nor do they particularly seem interested in them.
    No, it wouldn't. It probably would have ruined one of the few things the film had going for it. DAD was poorly crafted, but one of the subplots that was actually a high point of the film was the ultimate identity of Gustav Graves - Colonel Tan-Sun Moon. One of the big giveaways in Hollywood comes when a big-name actor plays the villain and dies in the first fifteen minutes, but you know he's somehow survived because he has a high billing. DAD worked because they found a way to kill Moon off and then bring him back (even if it was a little ridiculous), making his survival a surprise.
    We'll have to agree to disagree here. For me, the preposterous--and vaguely racist--element of DAD was that an Asian man was being remade as a Caucasian. It was also following in the tired tradition of the Brosnan Bond films to have a big "Oh, so *that's* the villain" reveal. They did it with 006, and then Elektra, and then Graves (and Frost).

    I am proposing that there was a more interesting film in DAD that didn't rely upon this weary trope, and that Colonel Moon/Sun could have been a more interesting villain. Furthermore, I'd argue that the high point of DAD as is is not Moon (he has so little screentime, and presence), but Bond's incarceration and struggle to prove to M that he has not been turned. The introduction of Graves coincides with the downslide of the film.
    One of the big giveaways in Hollywood comes when a big-name actor plays the villain and dies in the first fifteen minutes, but you know he's somehow survived because he has a high billing.
    Aside from the initial villainy, what you are describing is what happens in GoldenEye. Most people found that a superior film to DAD.



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DAD's plot with Moon wouldn't have been any more interesting. It's obvious to see the entire plot of Graves/Moon when you see Zao's interest in plastic surgery. That gets you thinking on Moon's death and the fourteen month absence gives time for surgery. At least in the Bond world. The aliens must have helped to build Icarus in that time, unless Moon already started the project before he faked his death. All in all, the film is a waste and disgrace to the 40th anniversary it failed to commemorate. Bad acting, bad CGI(since tons of real time stunts got scrapped), atrocious plot, disgusting premise, and a sad finish to what should have been a promising Bond run for Brosnan. I never want to see it again. [-(
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    Bringing it back to titles, I do find that DAD was a somewhat Flemingesque title, but would have been more so if they had used the full "To die another day" from the poem. Dropping the "to" made a huge difference.

    I hope we get to see the final Fleming book titles used (except 007 in New York) but I really hope that they don't use chapter titles. Most of them sound like pulpy, detective dime-novel titles and don't sound very Bond-ish to me. Given Fleming's writing style and his ability to turn a phrase using a quote from a poem like DAD is a good choice that sounds like it *could* be from Fleming.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    On The Precipice Of Defeat
    Burden of the Past
  • sirrogersirroger
    Posts: 17
    Propety of A Lady.

    Or..."Scuba do or die"
  • ReneMathisReneMathis
    Posts: 165
    Sirius XFM in orlando reported it today as being titled 'Behind the Red Curtain'
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    (insert wizard of Oz pun here)
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Sirius XFM in orlando reported it today as being titled 'Behind the Red Curtain'
    I'd be very interested to know how they know that. especially considering that they have no connection to the films that we know of.
  • Risico007Risico007
    edited August 2011 Posts: 9,771
    i;'m calling BS that said if by the miracle of miracles this is the title I'd be ok with it has a strangely cold war feel to it...


    not that this lends any credence to the rumor but wasn't it rumored early on that Mendes wanted "red" in the title...
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    i;'m calling BS that said if by the miracle of miracles this is the title I'd be ok with it has a strangely cold war feel to it...
    Really? "Behind the Red Curtain" sounds like a documentary about what goes on backstage at a Broadway theatre production.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    It reminds me of "beyond the ice" and we all know how well that turned out...
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    How about UNTIL THE REAPER CRIES?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2011 Posts: 28,694
    @shadowonthsun you think Behind the Red Curtain is bad but you bring up Until the Reaper Cries? Really? None recently mentioned feel Bond. They have to feel Bond and be distinctive to be chosen. I fear Risico will get picked just for its mysteriousness. I hate to admit it, but it does have a ring to it.
  • Whitaker1987Whitaker1987
    Posts: 172
    Well do i need to say anything more

    It Can Be Original (Made up by you) or a Fleming Book Not yet used

    OKAY HIT IT
    Well I really do like The Hildebrand Rarity.

    Milton Krest was used in LTK but what would fans say if the main villain of Bond 23 was to be named Milton Krest?

    Just a thought I'd like to find opinions on.





  • BounineBounine
    edited August 2011 Posts: 2,598
    Shatterhand is good. It's old school. They should name a Bond film after a villain's name again.

    I can see them using Property of A Lady which I like. I like Risico. The Hilbrand Rarity lacks style. It's more appropriate for a book but not so much a Bond film. '007 in New York' is a ridiculously bland name for a Bond film and even a tiny Bond short story. Fleming should have gone with Reflections in a Carey Cadillac. I can't help thinking that if it wasn't Fleming but one of the continuation authors who thought up the name 'OO7 in NY', people people would be condemning it.

    Here' s an appropriate title for Bond 23: 5 hours of action in a 2 hour film. :)

    Heaven's uninvited.
  • ReneMathisReneMathis
    Posts: 165
    Sirius XFM in orlando reported it today as being titled 'Behind the Red Curtain'
    I'd be very interested to know how they know that. especially considering that they have no connection to the films that we know of.
    I don't know were the info came from but I heard it whilst driving
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    @shadowonthsun you think Behind the Red Curtain is bad but you bring up Until the Reaper Cries? Really?
    Like I said, "Behind the Red Curatin" sounds like a documentary set backstage on a Broadway production. On the other hand, "Until the Reaper Cries" conjures up a certain mystery. The Grim Reaper is traditionally depicted as a skeleton in a hooded cloak, carrying a scythe to harvest the souls of the dead. Perhaps he is not an evil creature, but he is defiantely a frightening one. What would be enough to make the reaper cry?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It doesn't sound like a James Bond title @shadowonthesun.
  • civil_servantcivil_servant
    Posts: 6
    The Hildebrand Rarity is too close to The Bourne Identity, or any other number of Ludlum novels. Any Metallica fans here? 'To Live Is To Die'?
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    As much as I love me some 'tallica, do you really want to name a film after an - admittedly awesome - song? Why not just name it MISTRESS DREAD from the upcoming Lulu album?
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,771
    or the Art of dieing from the criminally underated George Harrison song.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Strange. The Hildebrand Rarity does sound like a lost Ludlum title from his 80's work. Great title, but 'To Live Is To Die' sounds too close the LALD.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,771
    I'm on the fence with the Hildebrand Rarity it has a mysteriousness to it but if the writers don't properly explain it in the context of the film we are left with another Quantum of Solace (a title I liked but hated hearing how "no one knew what it meant")
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2011 Posts: 28,694
    QoS is easy to explain, and all you have to do is show the confused to Fleming's quote on the matter:
    http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article3247987.ece
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    QoS is easy to explain, and all you have to do is show the confused to Fleming's quote on the matter:
    http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article3247987.ece
    Interesting that the article describes it more than defines it - the dictionary definition of the phrase would be "the smallest possible measure of comfort". I had to explain both words (but more often the correct meaning of quantum, which a lot of people think means the opposite of what it does) to all of my co-workers when QoS came out.

    I'm coming around to The Hildebrand Rarity as a title (I do like both Property of a Lady and Risico) lately. I think it would work best if what the "Hildebrand Rarity" is would be left as a mystery and not revealed until the end, like something that makes a woman with the last name of Hildebrand special. Perhaps the last of her family that has some special trait that only occurs every few generations? Sounds very Flemingesque as long as what the trait is isn't too over-the-top.

  • miles007miles007
    Posts: 1
    I'd really like to see some of the Gardner names used. It would be great one day of they actually used the material from Gardner as well - there's some good stories that would translate to 2011+ quite well.

    Win, Lose or Die would be a great title or Nobody Lives Forever.
  • civil_servantcivil_servant
    Posts: 6
    Live and Let Die Another DayLights.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Dr. No From Goldfinger With Thunderball ;-)
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    I'd really like to see some of the Gardner names used. It would be great one day of they actually used the material from Gardner as well - there's some good stories that would translate to 2011+ quite well.
    EON are not going to adapt any of the continuation novels, or use their titles.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    I'd really like to see some of the Gardner names used. It would be great one day of they actually used the material from Gardner as well - there's some good stories that would translate to 2011+ quite well.
    EON are not going to adapt any of the continuation novels, or use their titles.
    Yes, we understood the first time... Doesn't mean he can't express his desire for that.
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