Star Wars (1977 - present)

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 20 Posts: 18,136
    Sometimes it feels like they made the prequels a decade too early considering how much CGI was involved. Since Obi Wan is the main character, Ewan Mcgregors age would've matched up better with Alec Guiness, another thing which bugs me.

    The timing involved is a major problem. There's only nineteen years between 3 and 4, but nineteen years ago is what, Tony Blair? In 4, nobody seems to remember anything, with the Clone Wars alluded to once and the entire galaxy ran by the empire.

    It feels as though it's been in situ for about fifty not nineteen years

    Yes I always thought that too; in the originals it felt like the Empire had been around forever and folks could barely remember a time before it, although I guess if I'd thought about it it's kind of clear that Ben was around before the Empire. Is Vader only in his 40s or so?


    As for Old Ben not remembering the droids. In the original film R2 claims to have been the property of Obi-Wan but of course Old Ben doesn’t actually remember that. I think the prequels do run with the conceit that Obi-Wan doesn't really give much thought about droids. He sees them as mere tools. It’s flimsy, but I could roll with it.

    Yeah I thought that was fine, no one gives droids much of a second look.
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Both 3PO and R2 really feel poorly tacked on in the prequels in the worst way. In the OT they felt like fully integrated characters that actually interacted with the cast and had actual rapport. In the prequels they’re often isolated from the rest of the cast, primarily only interacting with each other when we cut to them. It was one of the things that made the prequels feel inferior compared to the OT. Which is bizarre given that Lucas decided to have 3PO be INVENTED by Anakin, but the movies never really do anything with it. Why introduce that conceit at all? If you had to include them in the prequels, it would have made more sense to just have them already together as servants in Naboo.

    As for Old Ben not remembering the droids. In the original film R2 claims to have been the property of Obi-Wan but of course Old Ben doesn’t actually remember that. I think the prequels do run with the conceit that Obi-Wan doesn't really give much thought about droids. He sees them as mere tools. It’s flimsy, but I could roll with it.

    However, it IS weird that Uncle Owen also would have previously owned 3PO and not remember.

    To defend GL, C-3PO had his mind wiped, and Uncle Owen died only a day later. He might not have had time to think about it. Also, there seem to be a lot of droids like 3PO's style. Plus, 3PO had a color change since Owen saw him last.

    Yeah it seems like they might go through a lot of droids from the way they're off to buy another, and droids like 3PO do look pretty identical, plus his name is just a serial code.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,657
    The problem is that the Jedi couldn’t have been extinct for any longer than Luke’s lifetime, yet we have guys like Han and the Imperial officers treating the ways of the Jedi as something almost mythical. That’s an issue present in the original film that the prequels could never fix.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 21 Posts: 8,954
    The problem is that the Jedi couldn’t have been extinct for any longer than Luke’s lifetime, yet we have guys like Han and the Imperial officers treating the ways of the Jedi as something almost mythical. That’s an issue present in the original film that the prequels could never fix.

    Think of it like the earth. There are myths or urban legends about a particular place that anyone who lives their knows to be untrue, and yet they persist. I imagine in a universe as big as Star Wars there are bits of history which quickly become confused with myth.

    On a seperate note, another big issue I have Star Wars is how Han Solo somehow "comes across" his old ship in Force Awakens. He's not tracking it, he's not hunting down the owner, he just stumbles across it. When you think about the liklihood of that happening in a universe where people can jump to lightspeed, that little detail perhaps stretches credibility more than anything else.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,675
    The problem is that the Jedi couldn’t have been extinct for any longer than Luke’s lifetime, yet we have guys like Han and the Imperial officers treating the ways of the Jedi as something almost mythical. That’s an issue present in the original film that the prequels could never fix.

    Think of it like the earth. There are myths or urban legends about a particular place that anyone who lives their knows to be untrue, and yet they persist. I imagine in a universe as big as Star Wars there are bits of history which quickly become confused with myth.

    On a seperate note, another big issue I have Star Wars is how Han Solo somehow "comes across" his old ship in Force Awakens. He's not tracking it, he's not hunting down the owner, he just stumbles across it. When you think about the liklihood of that happening in a universe where people can jump to lightspeed, that little detail perhaps stretches credibility more than anything else.

    This is something we have to give the Star Wars movies; there's no way around it. Pretty much the entire saga is built on coincidences (or the will of the Force, if a more esoteric explanation is desired). Luke and Leia, the separated siblings, crossing paths so easily seems rather coincidental. Qui-Gon meeting young Anakin when accidentally setting down on Tatooine feels like a mighty big coincidence as well. In the end, it doesn't really matter. SW is known for making its colossal universe really small. Statistical logic and real-world credibility hardly ever factor in.

    Regarding The Force Awakens: yes, it's a big coincidence that Han found the Falcon when he did. It was also one of the most exciting and pleasing moments for me when seeing the film for the first time. It felt like coming home. While angry Internet trolls were screaming "Not my Star Wars!", I was relishing the sweet nostalgia.

    SW is not hard Asimovian sci-fi where everything needs to be mathematically precise and make cold sense. It's a space opera fantasy, driven by dramatic and funny moments that put a smile on a viewer's face. Minor continuity flaws, large coincidences, and major stretches like Palpatine still being alive, are part of the deal. Sure, some bits could have been better written, but I don't mind. Worrying about the logic or credibily in SW feels a bit like worrying about calories when voluntarily choking down a big banana milkshake. ;-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 21 Posts: 18,136
    The problem is that the Jedi couldn’t have been extinct for any longer than Luke’s lifetime, yet we have guys like Han and the Imperial officers treating the ways of the Jedi as something almost mythical. That’s an issue present in the original film that the prequels could never fix.
    On a seperate note, another big issue I have Star Wars is how Han Solo somehow "comes across" his old ship in Force Awakens. He's not tracking it, he's not hunting down the owner, he just stumbles across it. When you think about the liklihood of that happening in a universe where people can jump to lightspeed, that little detail perhaps stretches credibility more than anything else.

    Han: "Do you think it was luck that Chewie and I found the Falcon? If we can find it on our scanners, the First Order's not far behind."

    They were scanning for it, as soon as it was turned on and flew again, they found it.
  • Posts: 2,037
    The problem is that the Jedi couldn’t have been extinct for any longer than Luke’s lifetime, yet we have guys like Han and the Imperial officers treating the ways of the Jedi as something almost mythical. That’s an issue present in the original film that the prequels could never fix.

    I think Vader and Kenobi should have been presented as the last cowboys of the Wild West.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,657
    That wouldn’t work because Vader helped hunt down the Jedi, which would have had to have happened after Luke and Leia were conceived.

    Interestingly, before Lucas worked on the prequels, the Clone Wars were originally to have taken place years before Anakin became Vader. Then Lucas changed his mind as he felt having the Clone Wars coincide with the fall of the Republic and Vader would be more dramatically interesting.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,938
    Happy 'real' Star Wars Day, I will watch the Theatrical Cut of ROTJ today to commerate (I recently rewatched the Theatrical Cut of SW and TESB).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,954
    That wouldn’t work because Vader helped hunt down the Jedi, which would have had to have happened after Luke and Leia were conceived.

    Interestingly, before Lucas worked on the prequels, the Clone Wars were originally to have taken place years before Anakin became Vader. Then Lucas changed his mind as he felt having the Clone Wars coincide with the fall of the Republic and Vader would be more dramatically interesting.

    Just proves he was making it up as he went along. The ways it's depicted in the prequels, the war is a big peice towards why he develops a lust for power to begin with.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,657
    Just proves he was making it up as he went along.

    That’s been apparent ever since he decided to make Vader into Luke’s father. I think all he had in mind for the saga were the big beats, not detailed plotting. Obi-Wan was originally supposed to live in the original Star Wars, but Guinness suggested killing him off midway (he would have told Luke to use the Force through the radio rather than as a ghost voice). That’s why Yoda was introduced in V. Luke’s sister was supposed to be an entirely new character that would be introduced in VII, but when Lucas decided to make VI the final installment he changed it to Leia, in part to give Luke a possible reason for turning to the dark side when Vader threatens her.

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. Really dismantles the fan myth that Lucas “planned it all” from the start.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,954
    What I still don't get - if the prequels are supposed to be a mirror inverse, where the hero chooses evil instead of good, why did they start him as a small boy? Was that just George succumbing to spreadsheet decisionmaking - "we have to give the kids something to watch"?
  • edited May 25 Posts: 543
    Apparently Rian Johnson is still wanting to make his SW trilogy. Recent interview:
    What happened? Knives Out!” Johnson told The Independent.

    “I mean, I kind of went down the murder mystery rabbit hole – I’m focused on making other stuff. But that wouldn’t rule out it happening down the line. If I get back in the Star Wars universe someday, I’d be the happiest person.”

    😂

    Well keep trying, Rian. Maybe you'll get it made before we're too old to care! ;))
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited May 25 Posts: 5,033
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Apparently Rian Johnson is still wanting to make his SW trilogy. Recent interview:
    What happened? Knives Out!” Johnson told The Independent.

    “I mean, I kind of went down the murder mystery rabbit hole – I’m focused on making other stuff. But that wouldn’t rule out it happening down the line. If I get back in the Star Wars universe someday, I’d be the happiest person.”

    😂

    Well keep trying, Rian. Maybe you'll get it made before we're too old to care! ;))

    I'd give him a second chance with new characters. He is a very unique voice to leave away from SW.

    Also, 48, 42 and 7 years ago, The original SW, ROTJ and Solo respectively, were released in theaters. Happy anniversary to one of the greatest movies and movie conclusions ever made. And an underrated adventure movie.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,657
    What I still don't get - if the prequels are supposed to be a mirror inverse, where the hero chooses evil instead of good, why did they start him as a small boy? Was that just George succumbing to spreadsheet decisionmaking - "we have to give the kids something to watch"?

    His reasoning for Anakin being 9 was that the character would still have a strong attachment to his mother when growing into adulthood. If he left as a teenage boy he didn’t think the separation between the two would be as impactful.
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