'Skyfall' re-ignited me as a fan. What about you?

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  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,449
    Daniel Craig as Bond probably re-ignited me as a fan, rather than any particular film. Been a fan for decades, but I felt Craig brought back the tough, beefcake Bond, missing since Connery. I have enjoyed Bond actors on and off, but Craig gets as close to Connery as anyone will (IMHO).

    SF wasn't spoilt by plot holes, for me. There are plot holes in most Bond films. I prefer to look at them as slabs of entertainment. Do they enhance the brand or detract? Will they be drab and lifeless like AVTAK or urgent and exciting like TLD (starring my least favourite Bond actor) which followed it.

    My love of Bond never waivers, why should it after all this time? I have faith in the Broccoli family - they will always respond well when a film goes wrong.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,780
    Getafix wrote: »
    I didn't mention plot holes. I just think it's a clunker. Plot coherence is importance but is not in itself any assurance of quality. You need a coherent plot that is also gripping in some way. TWINE is one of the most convoluted and tedious in the series. It might make logical sense but it's a total snore fest. I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Amen to that, @Getafix.

    Such an amazing coincidence that Zukovski is close-by, no? And such an amazing coincidence he and Electra know each other. And such an amazing coincidence he has a nephew who so happens to drive a nuclear sub! ;-) Small world, hey?

    I could easily rewrite CR this way. Bond is in the torture chair. But who happens to be walking on the pier? My goodness, it's Tanner, on holiday, who would have thought that? He hears Bond scream. But no worries, the youngest sun of the brother of Tanner's grandma happens to live nearby and he knows some people in the army and they can just arm up in no time, raid the boat and set Bond free. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    bondjames wrote: »
    A totally missed opportunity after the excellent TND.
    TND is Brosnan's best movie IMHO. Still, I find TWINE fairly dark & intriguing. But then, I also enjoy DAD, DAF & TMWTGG... tick the right boxes and I guess I'm easy to please.
    B-)
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 908
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I didn't mention plot holes. I just think it's a clunker. Plot coherence is importance but is not in itself any assurance of quality. You need a coherent plot that is also gripping in some way. TWINE is one of the most convoluted and tedious in the series. It might make logical sense but it's a total snore fest. I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Amen to that, @Getafix.

    Such an amazing coincidence that Zukovski is close-by, no? And such an amazing coincidence he and Electra know each other. And such an amazing coincidence he has a nephew who so happens to drive a nuclear sub! ;-) Small world, hey?

    I could easily rewrite CR this way. Bond is in the torture chair. But who happens to be walking on the pier? My goodness, it's Tanner, on holiday, who would have thought that? He hears Bond scream. But no worries, the youngest sun of the brother of Tanner's grandma happens to live nearby and he knows some people in the army and they can just arm up in no time, raid the boat and set Bond free. ;-)

    Sorry to say so, but that simply is not true!
    Given his - already known to us - character it is totally believable (certainly not less than Bond stumbling over him in GE) that he set up a casino in Azerbaijan. Also Elektra knows him exactly BECAUSE she knows his nephew is Captain of a submarine.
    Remember she needs its reactors core and the offer to him is only a pawn to get hold of the submarine. There's plenty to fault TWINE for, but its storyline is sound and not really convoluted. The skiing scene might be contrived but actually just about everything in this movie makes as much sense as a Bond movie can.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    I was re-ignited like, three times, first by Brosnan, later by rediscovering Dalton, and by way of Dalton, coming to embrace Craig (mainly in QOS). I am looking forward to SPECTRE like I haven't looked forward to a Bond film since TND was in production!
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Having grown up on the Roger Moore era, the first time i felt re-ignited (although i always remained competely fanatic about everything related to 007) was definetely Goldeneye (which isn't even one of my favourites, although above average).
    The long wait since License to Kill (specially considering i was/am not (honestly) a "Dalton era" fan) was over with a bang. All the marketing campaign at the time was very agressive, the Tina Turner music very strong and Brosnam's Bond stirred things a little for me.
    Then after the disappointment with (the 2nd half) of DAD nothing better then the superb Casino Royale, and the new direction the series took (even if, for me, Daniel Craig is a good JB, but not a perfect JB).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,043
    TWINE can have an airtight plot as much as it likes ( though I doubt it) but that doesn't stop from being an uneven mess of a movie with one of the most bloated PTS of series.

    Look Helm some of us like Skyfall allot, I know the plot has holes but I enjoy it, can you kindly stop jumping down everyone's throats who sings it's praises, you don't like it fine but can't you stop going to every thread that film gets mentioned and flame the posters who like it.

    Casino Royale reignited my Bond love again but I enjoy all Craig's films and Skyfall is narrowly my favourite just ahead of CR. I like it I don't need to explain my love of it and I don't need a diatribe on how terrible you think it is, your views are common knowledge on this film, just let it go your like a broken record on the subject.

    Your obsession is getting very tiresome.
  • Shardlake wrote: »
    TWINE can have an airtight plot as much as it likes ( though I doubt it) but that doesn't stop from being an uneven mess of a movie with one of the most bloated PTS of series.

    Look Helm some of us like Skyfall allot, I know the plot has holes but I enjoy it, can you kindly stop jumping down everyone's throats who sings it's praises, you don't like it fine but can't you stop going to every thread that film gets mentioned and flame the posters who like it.

    Casino Royale reignited my Bond love again but I enjoy all Craig's films and Skyfall is narrowly my favourite just ahead of CR. I like it I don't need to explain my love of it and I don't need a diatribe on how terrible you think it is, your views are common knowledge on this film, just let it go your like a broken record on the subject.

    Your obsession is getting very tiresome.

    Did I even mentioned SF in my post? No,what I did,was pointing the errors out in some peoples perception of TWINE ( and as I wrote - the film has its problems, but the storyline is not one of them.)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    edited December 2014 Posts: 28,231
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Now go and wash out your mouth with soap. Better do it twice! ;)

    @Matt_Helm, I suggest you save that bar for yourself. You're starting to smell more and more like the dead horse you've beaten for the past two years now.
  • Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Now go and wash out your mouth with soap. Better do it twice! ;)

    @Matt_Helm, I suggest you save that bar for yourself. You're starting to smell more and more like the dead horse you've beaten for the past two years now.

    Clearly humour ain't your strong point. The Question remains - what is?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Now go and wash out your mouth with soap. Better do it twice! ;)

    @Matt_Helm, I suggest you save that bar for yourself. You're starting to smell more and more like the dead horse you've beaten for the past two years now.

    Clearly humour ain't your strong point. The Question remains - what is?

    Well, just off the top of my head...

    Recognizing great Bond films, being an actual Bond fan, engaging in decent human discussions like a respectable person (take notes, old man), being liked by members here (again, take notes), and of course, riling you up. Though that last one isn't too hard now, is it?

    Your turn to share your strong points. Right off the bat we can strike logic, respectfulness and good sense from the list.

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Now go and wash out your mouth with soap. Better do it twice! ;)

    @Matt_Helm, I suggest you save that bar for yourself. You're starting to smell more and more like the dead horse you've beaten for the past two years now.

    Clearly humour ain't your strong point. The Question remains - what is?

    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I'd actually rather watch SF.

    Now go and wash out your mouth with soap. Better do it twice! ;)

    @Matt_Helm, I suggest you save that bar for yourself. You're starting to smell more and more like the dead horse you've beaten for the past two years now.

    Clearly humour ain't your strong point. The Question remains - what is?


    Your turn to share your strong points. Right off the bat we can strike logic and good sense from the list.

    I'm sure YOU can. Poor fellow.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Having trouble using the quote system, @Matt_Helm? It's really not that hard is it, old boy? Just have to put your back into it, I guess.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 1,778
    HaphazardStuff did an extensive review of TWINE and did an excellent job of pointing out it "clunkiness" and general uneven feel. Something that always stood out to me is that for the first third of the film Bond keeps turning Electra down and remaining professional. He even disapproves of her following him to the casino. Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something? It seems like Bond giving in to his desires, despite spending the entire first act giving Electra the cold shoulder, would've made for an important scene. I don't know. I rank TWINE very lowly in the Bond series but I insist there was a good movie hiding in there somewhere. Possibly even an excellent movie. Kudos to the producers and Brosnan for trying to go for a more serious and tough matter-of-fact Bond when compared to the previous two efforts but for me it just didn't work.

    I've been away for a while and I guess I never realized the hate Skyfall gets from some people on this site. I thought it was a phenomenal tribute to all things Bond. I loved it. Yeah it had some plotholes but for me the good exceedingly outweighed the bad. I suppose some aficionados might not like like as it breaks the formula in several different ways but then again so have all of Craig's movies. Maybe it's not so much of disliking Skyfall as it is disliking the Craig era.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something?
    I think so, possibly. That Bond is a doggy-dog, and cannot resist taking pleasure in great beauty.
    :))
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something?
    I think so, possibly. That Bond is a doggy-dog, and cannot resist taking pleasure in great beauty.
    :))

    If the situation were under normal circumstances I'd agree with you. But the movie seems to go out of it's way to show us the Electra wasn't just another conquest for Bond. He felt differently about her. Bond dodges her advances and actually seems like he wants to be professional about this. Obviously anyone who knows anything about Bond knows he won't be on his best behavior for long but still a scene showing us why he did a complete 180 seemed necessary in the context of this particular film. If Electra were just some stock Bond girl than no, seeing how he got her into bed wasn't needed.
  • Having trouble using the quote system, @Matt_Helm? It's really not that hard is it, old boy? Just have to put your back into it, I guess.

    Almost feels like a point made,doesn't it? Have you already called your Mother to brag about it or do you plan to save it as a climax for Christmas?
  • HaphazardStuff did an extensive review of TWINE and did an excellent job of pointing out it "clunkiness" and general uneven feel. Something that always stood out to me is that for the first third of the film Bond keeps turning Electra down and remaining professional. He even disapproves of her following him to the casino. Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something? It seems like Bond giving in to his desires, despite spending the entire first act giving Electra the cold shoulder, would've made for an important scene. I don't know. I rank TWINE very lowly in the Bond series but I insist there was a good movie hiding in there somewhere. Possibly even an excellent movie. Kudos to the producers and Brosnan for trying to go for a more serious and tough matter-of-fact Bond when compared to the previous two efforts but for me it just didn't work.
    .

    You seem to misjudge large parts of the movie. Bond falls for her almost from the beginning. Just remember though when he touches her face on the screen while for that year is running down. Classical Fleming moment, since his bond tended to fall for just about every hurt woman. Also he doesn't wants her in the Casino because he feels she might be in danger there. And so on. So many cling on to misconceptions about that movie, that I can only recommend all of you to rewatch it again. You might be surprised.
  • Posts: 1,505
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    TWINE can have an airtight plot as much as it likes ( though I doubt it) but that doesn't stop from being an uneven mess of a movie with one of the most bloated PTS of series.

    Look Helm some of us like Skyfall allot, I know the plot has holes but I enjoy it, can you kindly stop jumping down everyone's throats who sings it's praises, you don't like it fine but can't you stop going to every thread that film gets mentioned and flame the posters who like it.

    Casino Royale reignited my Bond love again but I enjoy all Craig's films and Skyfall is narrowly my favourite just ahead of CR. I like it I don't need to explain my love of it and I don't need a diatribe on how terrible you think it is, your views are common knowledge on this film, just let it go your like a broken record on the subject.

    Your obsession is getting very tiresome.

    Did I even mentioned SF in my post? No,what I did,was pointing the errors out in some peoples perception of TWINE ( and as I wrote - the film has its problems, but the storyline is not one of them.)

    Funnily enough I thought TWINE was the best thing to happen to the series when I walked out of the cinema back in '99 - character development & action all in one big 007-package. Only later on did I start finding faults in it.
    I think we (or at least a lot of us) will develop the same kind of mixed feelings regarding SF in years to come...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    Well, I just watched TWINE last night, and I had a jolly time of it. Imagine this: the very first time I saw it I felt it was too dark & not as much fun as TND- now I think it's just about dark enough (but still not as much fun as TND)!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    Having trouble using the quote system, @Matt_Helm? It's really not that hard is it, old boy? Just have to put your back into it, I guess.

    Almost feels like a point made,doesn't it? Have you already called your Mother to brag about it or do you plan to save it as a climax for Christmas?

    Oh, am I annoying you?
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    HaphazardStuff did an extensive review of TWINE and did an excellent job of pointing out it "clunkiness" and general uneven feel. Something that always stood out to me is that for the first third of the film Bond keeps turning Electra down and remaining professional. He even disapproves of her following him to the casino. Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something? It seems like Bond giving in to his desires, despite spending the entire first act giving Electra the cold shoulder, would've made for an important scene. I don't know. I rank TWINE very lowly in the Bond series but I insist there was a good movie hiding in there somewhere. Possibly even an excellent movie. Kudos to the producers and Brosnan for trying to go for a more serious and tough matter-of-fact Bond when compared to the previous two efforts but for me it just didn't work.
    .

    You seem to misjudge large parts of the movie. Bond falls for her almost from the beginning. Just remember though when he touches her face on the screen while for that year is running down. Classical Fleming moment, since his bond tended to fall for just about every hurt woman. Also he doesn't wants her in the Casino because he feels she might be in danger there. And so on. So many cling on to misconceptions about that movie, that I can only recommend all of you to rewatch it again. You might be surprised.

    I think that same thing any time you talk about Skyfall. Small world, eh?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    CR and SF are really great and my 2 favorite Craig movies, CR the better made film and SF the most epic and fun, but I thought QOS was pretty good too. Last time I saw QOS it felt like a condensed, no-nonsense look on what a Bond movie is. The story starts right away, 'without nonsense' with 2 epic action scenes in the first 15 or so minutes. The globe trotting is also condensed and no-nonsense, in the first 50 minutes we visit about 5 different countries. The Bond girl department is also 'no-nonsense', as there is no romance between Bond and Camille apart from the last kiss, and Bond needed only 30 seconds flat to bed Fields. For me, QOS is what a Bond movie is, in a nutshell. It's real short and to the point.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 34,992
    I'm always so torn on SF, and that's what leaves me worried about B24, no matter how excited I am over the plot, cast, locations, rumored scenes, etc. I need to go home over Christmas Break and do a Craig trilogy and completely unwind and give myself into SF with zero complaints and see how it goes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'm always so torn on SF, and that's what leaves me worried about B24
    Do not worry my friend, I got a hold of a review from 2015 (don't ask how) and it reads:
    " SPECTRE is retro-Bond at its best, sure it has political ramblings & PC female flashes, but the moment you see i]removed[/i you realize that our Bond of old is back, and Craig has been just waiting to i]removed[/i in the end!"
  • Posts: 532
    I watched Skyfall again last night. Not sure how many times I've seen it now, but quite a few. For me a good film is one that you can always revisit and still find pleasure in and find something new. Watching a film several times allows one to focus on and think about points and details that you might not catch the first few times. Which is not to say I like everything about SF, but overall it holds up well after repeated viewings.

    The things that bother me about SF are these:

    1-I am never clear about the location and severity of Bond's wound from Moneypenny.
    He talks about broken ribs etc., but this is always played off with the focus on the
    wound from Patrice.
    2-Silva's facial transition when he removes his teeth has always struck me as silly,
    something you'd expect from a Batman film.
    3-I don't care for villain plots that anticipate the moves of others days, weeks, and
    months in advance. The crashing tube train is too cleverly timed. This is why CR
    succeeds so well. LeChiffre seems to be making it up as he goes.
    4-I have always been unclear about the Shanghai assassination. Was it a Silva operation
    designed to snare Bond or unrelated, even though it introduces us to Severine.

    During Brosnan years, my interest in Bond waned a bit. It was CR that rekindled my interest in the series.
  • Posts: 1,505
    No, it was CR that re-ignited me as a fan after becoming depressed with the mess of 2002.
    I am still awaiting a worthy follow up to that film... high hopes for SP. High hopes.
  • Matt_Helm wrote: »
    HaphazardStuff did an extensive review of TWINE and did an excellent job of pointing out it "clunkiness" and general uneven feel. Something that always stood out to me is that for the first third of the film Bond keeps turning Electra down and remaining professional. He even disapproves of her following him to the casino. Then suddenly in the next scene they're making whoopee like there's no tomorrow. Did I miss something? It seems like Bond giving in to his desires, despite spending the entire first act giving Electra the cold shoulder, would've made for an important scene. I don't know. I rank TWINE very lowly in the Bond series but I insist there was a good movie hiding in there somewhere. Possibly even an excellent movie. Kudos to the producers and Brosnan for trying to go for a more serious and tough matter-of-fact Bond when compared to the previous two efforts but for me it just didn't work.
    .

    You seem to misjudge large parts of the movie. Bond falls for her almost from the beginning. Just remember though when he touches her face on the screen while for that year is running down. Classical Fleming moment, since his bond tended to fall for just about every hurt woman. Also he doesn't wants her in the Casino because he feels she might be in danger there. And so on. So many cling on to misconceptions about that movie, that I can only recommend all of you to rewatch it again. You might be surprised.

    I've seen TWINE quite a few times over the years and it was actually my first Bond film in the cinema and played a big part in my falling in love with the series. I understand Bond falls for Electra almost from the very beginning but my point is Bond letting his guard down or "get stripped of his armor" was a scene that was essential to this film. I've never read the script but I'm willing to bet there was a scene scripted to this effect but for whatever reason it got dropped.

    In any event discussing TWINE has raised my interest and I'll be watching it some time over the next few days. It's one of my least favorite entries in the series but it's been a couple of years so i figure I'll give it a another go.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I don't have a problem with the stripping of armor or falling for Electra conceptually.

    It just came across on screen to me like one big teenage 'Graduate' more experienced woman lovefest. Poorly executed, and very poorly acted by Brosnan.

    Craig nailed the 'stripped of armor' approach much better in CR.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with the stripping of armor or falling for Electra conceptually.

    It just came across on screen to me like one big teenage 'Graduate' more experienced woman lovefest. Poorly executed, and very poorly acted by Brosnan.

    Craig nailed the 'stripped of armor' approach much better in CR.

    Also true. Brosnan wanted EON to give him "more to play" as Bond but honestly he wasn't really up to the task. Brosnan was clearly more comfortable when in more run-of-the mill Bond films. I guess that's why I thought he gave his best performance in TND. Not alot was required of him.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    [Brosnan was clearly more comfortable when in more run-of-the mill Bond films. I guess that's why I thought he gave his best performance in TND. Not alot was required of him.

    Agree 100%. TND was made for him and he did a very good job in that one.
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