The thread of Bond lists - LIST 157 - Evaluate the FRWL Opening Titles. (see criteria)

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    In no real order:

    1. Kicking the sword towards the camera.

    2. The opening surf stunt. 3 guys on the same massive wave is by far the best stunt in the film (although amongst all the tedious gadgets and pyrotechnics some of the driving on ice is very good too).

    3. There are a couple of brassy bursts from Arnold that evoke Barry at his best. One where Bond drives towards the ice hotel, the other when the cars drive out onto the ice.

    4. Bond in Cuba (well, until Jinx arrives).

    5. For some reason I find myself loving the pantomime sneer Graves gives to Vlad when he says 'Boss he beat your time'.

    By the way am I the only one who doesn't really rate the sword fight? I like until they leave the first room but then it just goes on forever and like most of Vic Armstrong's action sequences for the Brozza era is painfully over choreographed.
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 2,400
    By the way am I the only one who doesn't really rate the sword fight? I like until they leave the first room but then it just goes on forever and like most of Vic Armstrong's action sequences for the Brozza era is painfully over choreographed.

    I think the swordfight is terrible. It's about seven hours too long and I don't find Brosnan or Stephens at all convincing with the swordplay. There's a better version of this swordfight, it's called Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet.

    On another note, I hope we get past this list (and the next one for that matter) very quickly. There's nothing except, well, really, nothing IMO to praise about DAD, and ditto for criticisms towards CR.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2013 Posts: 4,451
    1. The sword fight
    2. Judi Dench as M
    3. John Cleese
    4. Title song
    5. Everthig before the hovecraft chase start. With Bond twin brother/Helicopter road change in specialy.
    6. The Invinsible Car/it turn up side down
    7. The joke with the man and wheelchair
    8. Bond at the Hong Kong hotel
    9. Car Chase Ice Palace exept the part where he saved Jinx.
    10. Miranda Frost.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    M_Balje wrote:
    4. Title song

    This is supposed to be the list of good things about DAD old chap.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2013 Posts: 12,459
    DAD's best 7 (yay, I found 7!):

    7) Bond and Miranda "Put your back into it." I would enjoy that. I enjoyed that in the film. ;)
    6) Cuba/Raoul scenes
    5) London calling - whole of it
    4) Bond and M after his rescue; the cyanide line. I loved the way Brosnan said that.
    3) The great sword fight at Blades (I loved every bit of it)
    2) The fine PTS, through the torture scenes (logic aside, it was different, exciting, and offered good promise)
    1) Pierce Brosnan - his performance was not the problem for me in DAD; I thought he was solid. Not as fine as his very best Bond (which for me is TND) but still good.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    Oh, god. Five? It's hard to find one.

    5. Bond throwing the script--er I meant the Aston Martin manual in the air to be shot by the car's guns.
    4. Parts of the sword fight. Goes on too long though.
    3. John Cleese doing his best to be funny despite the sh*tty script.
    2. Miranda Frost, at least until the fight between her and Jinx. Guess who I was rooting for there?
    1. The PTS
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited September 2013 Posts: 13,987
    1. The PTS, especially the hovercraft chase and stealing Van Bierk's identity.
    2. Bond in Cuba, especially the scenes with Raoul.
    3. The sword fight in Blades. When I see people include this in their 5 worst moments...
    EN GARDE!
    4. Abandoned station for abandoned agents. In fact, any scene with Bond and M is a highlight here.
    5. Bond's interactions with Miss Frost in Iceland, especially "Put your back into it, eh/Are they still watching/Oh, they left ages ago".

    Honourable mentions:

    - The CGI bullet gets a lot of hate, but I love it as a one-off.
    - Including Bond's torture in the title sequence. Brilliant!
    - Smoking is a filthy habit- unless it's a Cuban cigar.
    - John Cleese becomes Q.
    - Vanquish chase on the ice, including a nod to the ejector seat.
    - Peaceful Fountains of Desire. She only has a minor role, but boy is it memorable! :x
  • #1 Swordfight with Graves (full length version)

    #2 Pre titles sequence in Korea was actually fun and entertaining

    #3 Graves and his Union Jack 'chute, descending on Buckingham Palace

    #4 The discussion with M at the closed subway station. "Abandoned stations for abandoned agents"

    #5 Bond and Johnson manage to cut a hole the size of New Jersey in the perimeter fence, with a few snips, at the Korean air base (well it was amusing, if nothing else)
  • Hmmm the best things about DAD:

    1. The PTS
    2. Beareded Bond strolling into the hotel
    3. Miranda Frost
    4. Bond pushing the random wheelchair guy
    5. Those Brief moments where Jinx is not on screen.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    1 Daniel Kleinman s titles
    2 John Cleese is in it
    3 Brosnan says goodbye
    4...4...eeh4...no,sorry that is all.
  • Posts: 2,400
    Why, in gods name haven't we moved on to the next list?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited September 2013 Posts: 13,894
    5 moments I genuinely like in DAD...

    5) The Sword fight
    4) Bond meets Raoul
    3) Bond meeting M in the abandoned station
    2) The Hovercraft chase
    1) The end of the car chase (Bond dispatching Zao)
  • A surprisingly low number of people have listed the swordfight. Interesting...I always thought it was one of the most well-liked portions of the movie.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,578
    LIST 1: The 007 most intelligent Bond girls
    LIST 2: Your 007 favourite OT sequences by Maurice Binder
    LIST 3: Your 007 most annoying moments in a Bond film
    LIST 4: Rank the Aston Martin cars from the Bonds
    LIST 5: 007's 007 coolest moments
    LIST 6: Rank the non-Barry/Arnold scores
    LIST 7: Your 007 most sexy moments in the Bonds
    LIST 8: The 6 best moments of Bond in London
    LIST 9: The 007 best uses of the Bond Theme
    LIST 10: The 5 worst faces made by the Bonds
    LIST 11: Your top 10 PTS
    LIST 12: The 6 best scenes in OHMSS
    LIST 13: David Arnold's 6 finest moments in the Bonds
    LIST 14: The five nicest folks who ever played a part in a Bond film.
    LIST 15: Ranking the Glen directed Bonds.
    LIST 16: Rank the Blofelds (including NSNA and FYEO)
    LIST 17-59: The 5 worst moments in DN - The 5 best moments in DAD.

    <font color=orange size=5><b>LIST 60</b></font>

    <font color=green size=6> <b>The 5 worst moments in CR.</b></font>
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,578
    Difficult, this.

    5 - I guess some of the falling house shots felt a trifle... too much of the good stuff.

    4 - Perhaps one or two love scenes too many?

    3 - For some reason I'm not too fond of Bond driving the machine behind Mollaka.

    2 - Mr Mendel and the chocolate joke. I'm nitpicky, I know.

    1 - Craig pulling a Honey on us. I get the reverse gender thing but ... nah, never a favourite of mine.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,987
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=green> <b>The 5 worst moments in CR.</b></font>
    One rises to meet a challenge.

    1. If anyone except Bond shot at a propane tank, it wouldn't explode. See MythBusters.
    2. I have no armour left you stripped it from me 8-X
    3. Shameless product placement- Craig practically looks at the camera to say "Omega, James Bond's choice."
    4. Alex Dimitrios to Solange: "If that was for luck, you're two hours late." This guy is a jackass.
    5. Rene Mathis gets stunned and taken away. Such a likeable chap, he didn't deserve this kind of treatment.
  • Posts: 2,400
    I'm not doing five. I'm writing this before my list, and I don't know how many things will be on it, but I guarantee I will not be able to reach five.

    1: "Rolex?" "OMEGA." Obviously this is the worst thing about the movie. And honestly, it's not that horrible to be the worst thing about a movie. For the standards set by its' predecessors, I'm actually quite impressed with Casino Royale for this fact.

    2: "insert number here million in the pot." and all other exposition during the poker game by Mathis. Just not necessary.

    3: You can sort of tell that there's CGI used for the sinking house, but honestly it's a fantastic action sequence and I didn't even think about it until about the sixth or seventh time I watched the scene. So this isn't even bad for me, I'm really just scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    4: Mr. Mendel. Something about his personality just bothers me. But I think that's supposed to be the point, that he's irritating but you can't figure out why, so again this isn't really a negative for me.

    Can't get a fifth one out. Looked at the other lists, thought about everything in the movie, and seriously, there really isn't anything outwardly bad about this movie. Well, the Omega line aside. But come on, that's what, seven seconds of the whole movie?
  • 1. Omega says thank you very much for the shameless plug. Kerrrr-ching!

    2. The defibrillator and lidocaine pen. Just in case Bond is poisoned and goes into cardiac arrest...

    3. "I have no armour left. You've stripped it from me". (Excuse me whilst I vomit)

    4. The whole third act. Whilst it's still very good (apart from the above mentioned scene) it's not up to the same standard as the previous 2 hours.

    5. Rene Exposition very helpfully explains the rule of poker to the audience. You know, just in case we're all 5 years old or have the mental capability of a chestnut.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    LIST 60 - 5 (or more) worst moments in CR

    I'm no hater of the film because when I first saw it I enjoyed it (but hadn't much Bond culture, just a few) but since I've read the Fleming book...I'm no lover neither.



    8. Why playing poker rather than baccara ??

    7. Casino Royal(e) is supposed to indicate the location of Royal-les-eaux in France and not somewhere in Montenegro in the film plot.

    6. Replacement of the Bentley by another (still beautiful) Aston Martin. Only for the book's respect. Please.

    5. The general casting regarding to the book's content (It could have been a better Le Chiffre, real fat and disgusting with the right hair colour and style , a better Vesper, a better Leiter...) didn't pleased me (even in theatre in 2006). Except for the italian playing René Mathis. Keeping Judi Dench as M was a timeline mistake.

    4. Daniel Craig's outing of the sea. It looked so gay IMOO

    3. The love scenes were overacted by both leading actors. I found no chemistry between them. (even in 2006)

    2. I have a problem with the PTS I found a great action pack but more "Die Hard" rather than Bond. It was too much with the bulldozer chase. IME

    1. The plot looking more contemporary due to the cell phone, tracker and radio (see PTS) using among previous things. It didn't respect the whole original book...I'm disappointed about that. 2006 is 2006 ; 1953 still is 1953.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    5. Craig talking with a mouth full of caviar.

    4. Bond sucking on Vesper's fingers. Glad Tarantino didn't do it because it would be her toes instead! =))

    3. One too many M scenes.

    2. The airport scene dragged on for too long.

    1. The falling house was one too many action scenes.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    1. The poisoning with the convenient defibrillator in the car for just such an occasion. This is on a par with Roger's handy watch bomb when they are about to be incinerated in MR. Why not keep the guy with the walking stick gun from the novel or at least just a subtle update. Off the top of my head a waiter places a small envelope next to Bond's drink. In it is a tiny earpiece. Bond puts it in his ear and a voice says 'Please look at Miss Lynd. Mr Bond you will retract your bet by the time I count to 10 otherwise...' A small red dot traces across Vesper's curves and stops on her forehead. And Bond has to get himself out of the situation.

    2. Omega - For a start Bond should be wearing a Rolex and ok you've taken the money and he doesn't any more. But don't rub our noses in it by having him deliberately snub Rolex. Just an awful way to honour their commitments to Omega. What's wrong with just a lingering shot of his hand on the gear stick (although there is a shot like that in the SF PTS that lasts about 40 seconds which is almost as bad).

    3. 'You died scratching my balls' - After waiting forever to see Fleming's best torture scene on the big screen the experience was ruined by this line which had everyone in the cinema roaring with laughter.

    4. Poker rather than Baccarat - I can understand why they did it; the proles would be unable to grasp Baccarat even though its an easier game to understand that Texas Hold'Em (and way more refined). Its a shame we always have to be pandering to the moronic masses.

    5. 'I gotta go' - someone who has been privately educated would not do this to the Queen's English. But if thats the worst thing I've got to say about the film then I suppose its not too bad.
  • Posts: 1,817
    It's hard to pick something negative from my second favorite Bond movie (and even more as I actually liked Monsieur Mendel). My general complaint is that they present Bond too much with a blue collar background and lacked the classical sophistication:

    3. Bond eating his caviar as he was eating a hamburger at a bus station
    2. Vesper implying that Bond came from a poor family
    1. Vesper teaching Bond how to dress properly and Bond trying his tuxedo as if it was his first time
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 776
    Ridiculously hard, this, since I love CR so damn much, but....

    4. Yeah, the defibrillator in the car is a little too convenient.
    3. After Gettler screams, "I kill!" with his gun at Vesper's head, Bond says, "Allow me". I think that's overdoing his feeling of betrayal a little bit...I mean he still loves her. I dunno.
    2. I'm mostly fine with Texas Hold'Em instead of Chemin de Fer, but it would have made more sense in a swanky French casino to host a baccarat game, not poker! I wish baccarat was more known in the U.S.; if it was, then we would have gotten that instead of poker. Anyway...
    1. A tad too much poker game exposition and explanation from Mathis to Vesper (and the audience).


    That's all I got. Casino Royale is an amazing movie. With these four "worst parts" of the movie that I outlined above, I was really scraping the bottom of the barrel for something that bothered me about CR, when there's practically nothing that does.
  • edited September 2013 Posts: 1,817
    3. After Gettler screams, "I kill!" with his gun at Vesper's head, Bond says, "Allow me". I think that's overdoing his feeling of betrayal a little bit...I mean he still loves her. I dunno.

    I believe "allow me" is one of Bond's finest lines from the whole movie (and Craig's tenure)!
  • Posts: 2,400
    0013 wrote:
    It's hard to pick something negative from my second favorite Bond movie (and even more as I actually liked Monsieur Mendel). My general complaint is that they present Bond too much with a blue collar background and lacked the classical sophistication:

    3. Bond eating his caviar as he was eating a hamburger at a bus station
    2. Vesper implying that Bond came from a poor family
    1. Vesper teaching Bond how to dress properly and Bond trying his tuxedo as if it was his first time

    Really? It probably was among them. How many times do you think Bond wore a tuxedo before the events of the movie? Craig's Bond doesn't exactly seem the type to just wear a tux to every event. And anyway, that was a great shot of him looking at it in the mirror.
    LIST 60 - 5 (or more) worst moments in CR

    I'm no hater of the film because when I first saw it I enjoyed it (but hadn't much Bond culture, just a few) but since I've read the Fleming book...I'm no lover neither.



    8. Why playing poker rather than baccara ??

    7. Casino Royal(e) is supposed to indicate the location of Royal-les-eaux in France and not somewhere in Montenegro in the film plot.

    6. Replacement of the Bentley by another (still beautiful) Aston Martin. Only for the book's respect. Please.

    5. The general casting regarding to the book's content (It could have been a better Le Chiffre, real fat and disgusting with the right hair colour and style , a better Vesper, a better Leiter...) didn't pleased me (even in theatre in 2006). Except for the italian playing René Mathis. Keeping Judi Dench as M was a timeline mistake.

    4. Daniel Craig's outing of the sea. It looked so gay IMOO

    3. The love scenes were overacted by both leading actors. I found no chemistry between them. (even in 2006)

    2. I have a problem with the PTS I found a great action pack but more "Die Hard" rather than Bond. It was too much with the bulldozer chase. IME

    1. The plot looking more contemporary due to the cell phone, tracker and radio (see PTS) using among previous things. It didn't respect the whole original book...I'm disappointed about that. 2006 is 2006 ; 1953 still is 1953.

    8: Who plays baccarat anymore? That was a modernization update and a necessary one. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who don't even know what baccarat is.

    7: The Bond films have only gone to France, oh, what, three times already? The Bond films are very well-known for not recycling locations other than London (for obvious reasons).

    6: It's all about appeal. No Bentley looks as good as that Aston Martin. That, and the fact that AM have a stake in the films. They can't just go replacing the car with a Bentley.

    5: Don't agree with any of this, except that Mathis was brilliantly cast. Why would you want some overweight, not at all intimidating Le Chiffre? Mads gives me chills whenever I look at him as Le Chiffre. Eva Green was beyond amazing as Vesper and Wright was a fantastic Felix. Besides, let's be honest. Felix has generally been horribly cast throughout the series' history so even if Wright was terrible, he'd still be better than Burton, Linder, or *shudder* Terry.

    4: Wow. I'm not even going to comment on that.

    3: Wrong.

    2: Bulldozer chase? He uses it for like two seconds.

    1: So basically you're upset because the film isn't using 1953 technology in 2006? How can you say this movie didn't respect the book? It's one of the most faithful Fleming adaptations ever, perhaps THE most. I really enjoyed discussing your points up until about number 4. That's when your post turned into a farce for me.
  • Can only spare a few moments today but couldn't let this pass by without a mention

    #1 The entire chase in Madagascar. Bond escalates into some 'spider-man' type with leaping from cranes and high places and bounding around the screen like a hyperactive flea. Some may say it's great action, others will argue it's not above ridiculous

    #2 The pre-titles sequence. Mundane, dull and lack of color. Bond gets in a fight in a restroom - and not much else, and they even omitted the cricket game from end releases. (Why ? - it would of made for a much better opening)

    #3 The 'violation of gentials' sequence with LeChiffre. Embarrassing, questionable, unnecessary - it was those things

    #4 The sinking house in Venice. Guessing the waters in the immediate vicinity aren't deep enough to accomodate such a structure, and it just appears absurd whenever you view it

    #5 Craig and some awkward lines of dialog. "You know what I can do with my little finger" - "Yes Yes Yes, I have a little itch down there etc". Doubtless there were other instances we can include but pushed for time today
  • Posts: 1,817
    0013 wrote:
    It's hard to pick something negative from my second favorite Bond movie (and even more as I actually liked Monsieur Mendel). My general complaint is that they present Bond too much with a blue collar background and lacked the classical sophistication:

    3. Bond eating his caviar as he was eating a hamburger at a bus station
    2. Vesper implying that Bond came from a poor family
    1. Vesper teaching Bond how to dress properly and Bond trying his tuxedo as if it was his first time

    Really? It probably was among them. How many times do you think Bond wore a tuxedo before the events of the movie? Craig's Bond doesn't exactly seem the type to just wear a tux to every event. And anyway, that was a great shot of him looking at it in the mirror.

    How many times? I bet a lot, if he is Bond. And the fact that "Craig's Bond doesn't exactly seem the type to just wear a tux to every event" is the main reason of my complaint. He is that type of guy, he is James Bond.
  • Posts: 2,400
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    It's hard to pick something negative from my second favorite Bond movie (and even more as I actually liked Monsieur Mendel). My general complaint is that they present Bond too much with a blue collar background and lacked the classical sophistication:

    3. Bond eating his caviar as he was eating a hamburger at a bus station
    2. Vesper implying that Bond came from a poor family
    1. Vesper teaching Bond how to dress properly and Bond trying his tuxedo as if it was his first time

    Really? It probably was among them. How many times do you think Bond wore a tuxedo before the events of the movie? Craig's Bond doesn't exactly seem the type to just wear a tux to every event. And anyway, that was a great shot of him looking at it in the mirror.

    How many times? I bet a lot, if he is Bond. And the fact that "Craig's Bond doesn't exactly seem the type to just wear a tux to every event" is the main reason of my complaint. He is that type of guy, he is James Bond.

    Yes, but this is Bond BECOMING Bond. This is his first mission, his first venture to exotic locales. My point is still that I can't imagine there are many occasions in his life before CR's events where he would've worn a tux.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    @StirredNotShaken :

    8. Let's call it authenticity. I'm ok with the poker game, which I play with pleasure but when the original book says baccarat, I'd prefer watch a baccarat game...that's it.

    7. What's the matter coming back in some locations then shall I understand you wouldn't like watching FRWL, TWINE and Skyfall because they show Istanbul ? You don't want France perhaps because you don't know some parts (Paris in AVTAK, ok)...It's pity.

    6. OK for this point. Now, I understand. It's all about contracts. But I still don't think Bentley is uglier than AM... I found them so different and both beautiful.

    5. It could have been better, that's what I posted. The actual actors performed correctly (except for Vesper's love scenes) but it still lacks something "more".

    4. He looks gay on that scene. But no comment is better.

    3. Wrong for you ; right for me. Simple as that. Just a matter of taste.

    2. I meant the whole PTS and the "parkour" chase...using that bulldozer. Well...too much for me.

    1. I mean, have you found any bulldozer or cell-phone in the book content (of course not : 1953) ? I expected a better adaptation that's my point. And I read the book. Mixing times didn't pleased me. Back to the future 007... However, I admit most of the scenes and dialogues were faithful. But not each, so read my "could be better"...

    I hope you're able to understand.

    @Baltimore_007 : I couldn't agree more with your post, except I found the PTS great action. Too much sometimes.
  • @StirredNotShaken :



    4. He looks gay on that scene. But no comment is better.

    How does one "look gay" exactly?
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