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Kingsman: The Great Game (2019)

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  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I don't know why you went to see it then if you didn't want references. They promised beforehand that there would be loads of references and that the tone would be the same as Kick Ass (full of references). If this didn't sound appealing to you then why bother watching it?

    "For me the movie simply felt....that it wanted to prove itself to much to be something else than serious spy flicks"

    I don't really understand what you're saying here.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Uhm, I actually got an invite for a screening here in Barcelona. So I won't say "no" to that :-). By the way, I did like the film eh! It's just....I expected slightly more seriousness a la "Layer Cake".
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Ah see that's the problem, you went in expecting Layer Cake when you should have been expecting Kick Ass :P

    I liked Layer Cake but I didn't realise how highly of it people thought until I joined here. I thought it was alright, with some great scenes and a brilliant central performance from Daniel Craig, but not that great. To me it felt like a Guy Ritchie film without the visual style that helps make his films so appealing.

    Kick Ass to me is the film that really sold me on Vaughn as a director. Fantastic film, I was gutted when he didn't return for the sequel (although he did do Kingsman instead and Kick Ass 2 was surprisingly pretty good, so it all worked out well in the end).
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited February 2015 Posts: 4,444
    Dutch paper give 2** (4/10) There opnionis that remember them to Kick Ass with Setting is gamely, the violence is pain to your eyes and villian looks he is bored.
    I get idea there think Michael Caition repeat him self to much, there are happy with Colin firth and new kid must strike against old friend of Firth (That sound like Goldeneye/Skyfall).
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited February 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Here's a nice review from "Kingsman". Well, it's nice to read:

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/review-kingsman-the-secret-service/



    Ratings so far on the various movie websites. And they all went down quite a bit. Including the general audience scores:

    --> 7.0/10 (down from 7.6/10):
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kingsman_the_secret_service/ (average reviews critics)
    --> 8.9/10 (down from 9.2/10):
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kingsman_the_secret_service/ (average audience score)
    --> 5.9/10 (down from 6.5/10):
    http://www.metacritic.com/movie/kingsman-the-secret-service (average reviews critics)
    --> 6.1/10 (down from 7.0/10):
    http://www.metacritic.com/movie/kingsman-the-secret-service (average audience score)
    --> 8.2/10 (down from 8.4/10):
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802144/combined (average audience score)
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Just saw it. I think the first word that comes to mind is "distasteful". The reveling in random violence towards innocent people left a very bad taste in my mouth.

    The into/backstory was good. I winced a bit at the tone deafness of
    blowing up what look to be ancient buildings for a 'cool' intro, considering that that's exactly what has been happening in Syria for the last several years. Some of the oldest still existing cities have been leveled.
    Overall though I liked it a lot. It provided a very reasonable backstory for the Eggsy, as well as perhaps offering some explanation for why he's been a failure thus far in life. I liked Eggsy and Colin Firth's characters a lot.

    The scene in Argentina was good.
    It was like another intro (actually many of the scenes in the first half of the film introduce new characters, and most work pretty well). The violence was a little stylized for my taste, but that was bound to be the case in this film (Vaughn seems to watch Tarantino movies as much as he reads comic books). The henchwoman I liked. Stabbing hands probably would have been more practical than feet as they're certainly easier to wield, but that's a quibble.

    The training sequences were pretty good.
    They were a bit heavy-handed with the substory about Eggsy getting bullied by the upper class snobs. One reference would have been fine, but they took pains to beat us over the head with it. I'm not sure if they were trying to make up for the basic regressiveness of the back-story (a bunch of royally financed monarchists saving the world because of the incompetence of bureaucrats and their silly democratically elected governments doesn't scream 21st century) or trying to make some other social statement.

    My other problem was with the dogs scene.
    The train test was a perfect test of their devotion and willingness to die for the Kingsman, so I'm not sure why a followup was needed. Particularly one that tested their ability to...what exactly? Kill an animal they'd become close to? I'm aware that similar tests have been used in real life, but they're hardly universal among special forces or anyone else.

    But other than those two quibbles I liked the training sequences.

    I thought Samuel Jackson was pretty poor as a villain. The gimmick of
    not being able to look at blood
    was a good one (almost Fleming-esque), but Samuel Jackson was absolutely unbelievable as a tech executive/innovator. Nor was he believable as
    some extreme environmentalist.
    He was just playing Samuel Jackson, that's it. And why was he talking with a lisp like Mike Tyson some of the time?

    I thought the joke about
    serving MacDonalds
    was not particularly clever or funny, but was particularly crass product placement (and don't think I didn't notice the closeups of LEVIS JEANS multiple times).

    The church scene was where it jumped the shark for me. Up until then I was having a lot of fun. But that was just a nasty scene for no particular purpose.
    When I said reveling in the violence I'm referring to the closeups, slow motion, and use of Freebird. You're clearly supposed to be saying "wow, awesome", not "wow, that's horrible." I did like that they killed Firth's character the way they did. That's one trope (the villain telling the good guy his plan and basically allowing him to escape) that never needs to be brought back. However Firth's presence was sorely missed, so as brave as it was to kill off a main character half-way through the film really suffers for it.
    The finale left me cold as well.
    I really didn't understand the point of allowing the villain to partially succeed. At the very least hundreds of thousands and probably millions of people died in just those minutes of an orgy of violence. And again these scenes were filmed in a way that's really celebrating what's happening. The film basically states at the dinner scene that it's a homage to Roger era Bond films. But apparently they never noticed that in TSWLM and MR Roger stopped the villain. He didn't let one nuclear missile go off or one of those globes break through the atmosphere.

    I give it 3/5. First half is four stars, great fun, the second half is 2 stars, so they average out.

    Someone said Eggsy did that was 'ungentlemanly', as I believe someone said?
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Hmmm, it sounds a bit DAD-esque @Sark
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Well, if by that you mean it starts out pretty well but starts falling apart in the second half I guess. It's probably still better than DAD.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Just saw it. I won't spoil it for anyone but it was really good fun.

    I liked some of the homages to Bond - basically some of the connoisseur elements that they included. Very nice.

    Firth looked damn good in a suit and my word I believe Jack Davenport, if cast in 1995, would have made a fine Bond that we could have had in the role even up to now. The man played his small part brilliantly.

    I really liked the music too. Especially for the villain. Henry Jackman impressed me with Winter Soldier, and he has done it again. Get this guy for Bond.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    @Sark Personally I think I preferred the second half. The first half has some great moments and it's entertaining and never dull but it feels a bit tame, a bit safe, especially compared to Kick Ass.

    The second half though is when things really get insane. That epic scene in the church, all the henchmen and the ones who went along with Valentines plan having their heads blown up, everyone on the planet beating the shit out of eachother while 'Give It Up' plays in the background and the hero fights the main henchwoman with disco lights illuminating the room. Insane, violent, brilliant.

    If the whole film was as violent, insane and inventive that then I'd have enjoyed it more but unfortunetly the first half drags it down a bit imo.

    I think the violence in Kingsman isn't a problem because it's so cartoonish and OTT. If it was realistic violence then I'd agree with you but I think that it's so gratious and over the top that I didn't feel bad about thinking "that's fucking awesome" during the church scene.

    As an opposite example to show what I mean, the violence in CR is very hard hitting and realistic, it's intense and gripping rather than entertaining. You don't watch it and think "that's fucking awesome" you watch it and think "shit, that looks like it hurt".

    If they'd shown everyone killing eachother with CR esque realistic violence then I think it could be a problem, but as it stands, I think the violence is cartoony and OTT enough for it to be ok.

    Plus, in the church scene, it was a (fictional version of) the Westboro Baptist Church. Really vile people, not innocent at all.

    @bondjames I was really impressed with the score too. It was memorable but not intrusive, heroic but not cheesey, and Barry esque while not just being a pastiche. If they make another one they need to get the same composer back again.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Yes. @thelivingroyale, I don't have too many criticisms of the violence in Kingsman. I was quite surprised by it though I have to say, although it is somewhat cartoonish. There was a Tarrantino element to it I thought (limbs flying around etc.). I was surpised by the swearing too (again somewhat Tarrantino-like).

    I actually prefered the earlier bit to the end though just because we were learning so much about the whole universe.

    I wish they hadn't dispensed with some of the English thespians though. They added character. I can't see Eggsie carrying a movie on his own for the sequel.

    Quite frankly, I think Kingsman may be close to what Tarrantino could have delivered if he had made a Bond.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I thought the movie worked fine even after
    Colin Firth was killed off
    so I think a sequel would still be good. Eggsy wouldn't be carrying it on his own, Mark Strong is still there and I assume Roxy would be back too, but I think Eggsy was charismatic and entertaining enough to carry a sequel anyway.

    One thing I thought that was handled really well was Micheal Cain's character, even though he didn't get that much to do. I liked how
    he slipped into a cockney accent and swore at Eggsy as he died, suggesting that he came from a working class background himself and his snobbiness, him being such a stuck up dickhead was a result of denial/self hatred. Bit like homophobes who are trapped in the closet.

    It's just one line. "You dirty little f**king prick". But it adds some depth to what was, up until then, a very one dimensional character.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    edited February 2015 Posts: 2,491
    So I just saw the movie.

    Really enjoyable movie.

    Kinda overhyped but I enjoyed it. The action scenes were amazing, but the non-action scenes were..eh.

    Overall a good movie that definitelly has a rewatch value, and will definitelly get few dollars from BluRay sales.

    I don't want if I want a sequel to this movie even though it can easily have one. The sequel needs a star to lead it and the young kid is better as a sidekick. But oh well maybe they will have a good villain in potential sequel cause "just like the old Bond movies the movie is as good as the villain" :D


    edit: I almost forgot, the soundtrack for the movie was great, I wouldn't have problem with the guy who did the soundtrack for the movie to be part of a Bond movie in the future.
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,708
    More like a ramped up Flint movie than Bond. Anyone here not familiar with Derek?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    delfloria wrote: »
    More like a ramped up Flint movie than Bond. Anyone here not familiar with Derek?
    In Like Flint, my man!
    :))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Love them, have them on DVD. :D
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    I was completely and utterly not impressed. Thought the film was a surplus of clichés, and way too long. Still, good points as well, especially Firth and the soundtrack. The absurdistic action works for me in a small confinement, say, a pub, but not on the kind of scale as shown in the film.
    The Church was too much, the fighting in the streets too.
    but then again, I don't like Kill Bill for the same reasons. I think it's cheap entertainment and I long for something more intelligent.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    edited February 2015 Posts: 2,491
    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=115754

    Hmmm
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    dragonsky wrote: »
    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=115754

    Hmmm

    Wunderful CGI work. Someone who criticizes this work, only does it because he knows about how this scene was created. Not because what he saw with his bare eye.

    Thus we got such hefty "CGI discussions" about Bond.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    I think it's cheap entertainment and I long for something more intelligent.
    "Lucy" is more intelligent with gobs of CGI-enhanced action...
    ;)
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I don't think you can get stupider than Lucy. I hated every minute of that film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Sark wrote: »
    I don't think you can get stupider than Lucy. I hated every minute of that film.
    Yet you subjected yourself to something you hate. Hmmmm.....
    :D
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    edited February 2015 Posts: 2,015
    There was a fair amount of CG face replacement in Kingsman, some you could notice, some you noticed less.

    The most successful IMO was when we discover Eggsy skills when he escapes at the very beginning : the stuntman does some parkour, it's done in the old fashioned way by using tricks to hide the face of the stuntman in a natural way. And then at the very end, for a split second Eggsy turns back so that we see his face - a CG face replacement that does not happen during a close shot in the action, but in a long shot when the action is almost over, so it's very successful, we don't have the "plastic doll" effect. When they use CG face replacement during the fights, it's still quite noticeable IMO.

    I think that mixing the old way of hiding the stuntman's face + using CG face replacement only for a split second when the action is at a low point, is the good way to do IMO : it makes the scene more immersive. The technology is still not that good to do successful CG face replacement during the action : the CG face is still without any real emotion, while you would expect a lot of emotion on it during the action sequence : it then creates some distraction.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Thus we got such hefty "CGI discussions" about Bond.

    CGI should always be used sparingly in a Bond. It's been used well, but also very badly. When elements of a shot are CGI they get away with it, but when the focal point or majority of the frame is CG it fails. SF had too many bad moments, hopefully SP will correct that.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    Btw I am writing again cause I think I forgot this when I was writing my post few days ago.

    I never quite got the excitement that people have/had for Marvel Movies, but this movie made me feel like what people feel like Marvel movies I think..
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited February 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Okay, I have finished listening the entire score of "Kingsman: The Secret Service", composed by Henry Jackman & Matthew Margeson. And I tell you this. David Arnold never did not came close this vivid score with memorable cues and melodies during his last three Bond scores (DAD, CR & QOS). This score I like. It combines lovely John Barry esque strings and melodies with Thomas Newman esque electronic percussion and romantic cues. Pity it uses the same motif/melody a bit too much:

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    EON, Hire them now! =P~
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    this is my favourite track. Starts very Thomas Newman-esque....and then ends with some great John Barry strings:

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,809
    Still not seen it yet...tut-tut to me!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    this is my favourite track. Starts very Thomas Newman-esque....and then ends with some great John Barry strings:


    Completely agreed 100%. This is for Samuel Jackson's character, right? Amazing stuff - I love the way it starts with that unsettling repetitive sound (like a heart monitor) followed by the high pitched twang...chilling. I remember waiting to hear this bit every time he was on screen. 1st 1:21 minutes are pure gold (i.e. the Newman'esque part). Very layered.

    I want these guys for Bond post Newman. One of the best Bondian Barryesque soundtracks since Michael Giacchino's work for the Incredibles imho. A real salute to the master. Jackman's work for Captain America Winter Soldier (also a spy like caper) was also brilliant.

    In your first post, the following is magnificent as well:
    1). 0:00 to 1:33 (with the part up to about 0.30 in particular being very reminiscent of FRWL's gypsy fight scene) and;
    2). 11:30 to about 12:25 (with the real kicker coming in at about 12:07 - this is the way you action score!)
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