Goldeneye Score by Eric Serra: Severely Underrated?

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  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,036
    Perhaps not the right thread, but I do like Nicole Scherzinger’s cover of Goldeneye, for the 2010 video game,

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    Mallory wrote: »
    Perhaps not the right thread, but I do like Nicole Scherzinger’s cover of Goldeneye, for the 2010 video game,


    I've heard worse redos of the song. This is not too bad, though nothing compares to the original, of course. ;-)
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 7,500
    The more fans hate on this score, the more its admirers can make the case of it being severely underrated. YOU ONLY THROW GASOLINE ONTO THIS FIRE! WE CAN'T LOSE!!!

    laugh.png


    So any argument against it being underrated makes it underrated? Nice try ;)) but it doesn´t make the actual score better... I would say the tracks range from bad to decent. There is not a single track i find particularly great though. The tranquile and somber parts are probably the best ones, but they are not particularly memorable either. I think people are right to say that the film might have improved with a different score.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2020 Posts: 6,759
    I think the film would not have benefitted from a more traditional Bond score. I'd even say that its the score that gives this one the distinctivness that it needs. Regardless of all that, I love every single track of it. It's one of my favourite film scores ever.
  • The score suits the film for me honestly. I think the moody atmosphere adds an extra layer of intrigue to the film, but that’s just my opinion. I love basically anything Goldeneye.
  • The score definitely helps give GoldenEye a particular feel it wouldn’t otherwise have with a score from Barry or David Arnold as much as I love them both. Could parts of the score have been better? Sure, and it’s a darn good thing they replaced the original tank music, but there are plenty of standout moments including “The GoldenEye Overture,” “We Share the Same Passions,” and “Whispering Statues.”
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.
  • GatecrasherGatecrasher Classified
    Posts: 265
    I’ve always had a soft spot for Eric Serra’s GoldenEye score; it might be because I’ve always had a knack for “weird” music, even at a young age. So for me, I’m glad he put his stamp on the film as that’s what I now associate with GoldenEye.

    Still, I often wonder what the film would’ve sounded like had John Barry scored it; his music during the 90s was good, but it didn’t really have the same “punch” as the sound for Bond that came before in the 60s, 70s, and 80s...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.

    Also not forgetting Barry's previous work for Mercury Rising, after which the producers hired Carter Burwell to punch up the action material as they felt Barry's stuff was too sombre.

    One of the reasons Barry didn't work as much through the late 90s was because his style wasn't a fit with genre films of the time. I think the only exception is The Specialist.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2020 Posts: 14,861
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.

    Also not forgetting Barry's previous work for Mercury Rising, after which the producers hired Carter Burwell to punch up the action material as they felt Barry's stuff was too sombre.

    I didn't know that. I still haven't seen that film, and Barry would be the only reason why I would, even though I've heard bits of the score and it's pretty unremarkable Barry. I do like Burwell though!
    :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    The more fans hate on this score, the more its admirers can make the case of it being severely underrated. YOU ONLY THROW GASOLINE ONTO THIS FIRE! WE CAN'T LOSE!!!

    laugh.png

    Why have they put Homer's mouth on the kids?!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2020 Posts: 8,000
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.

    Also not forgetting Barry's previous work for Mercury Rising, after which the producers hired Carter Burwell to punch up the action material as they felt Barry's stuff was too sombre.

    One of the reasons Barry didn't work as much through the late 90s was because his style wasn't a fit with genre films of the time. I think the only exception is The Specialist.

    Funnily, one of Brad Bird’s plans was that after Barry would finish his score, Giacchino would be brought in to provide additional scoring, likely to punch up the Barry’s themes for the more fast pace sequences that Barry was unwilling to sync to.


    As it is, this trailer was the only thing Barry actually did work for THE INCREDIBLES, and it was just a reprisal of OHMSS.



    To be fair, Barry explained the reason he started making his action cues slower by the 90s was because he believed it was the best way for the music to cut through the action. That if it had synced up to the tempo of the action then the music would get lost in the sound mix, which is actually a big issue with modern film scoring.

    I do think it’s too bad he never continued with Bond beyond TLD and up to his retirement. To me he’s synonymous with Bond much like John Williams is with Indiana Jones. Makes me wonder how he would have approached CR if given the opportunity.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2020 Posts: 8,009
    mtm wrote: »
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.

    Also not forgetting Barry's previous work for Mercury Rising, after which the producers hired Carter Burwell to punch up the action material as they felt Barry's stuff was too sombre.

    I didn't know that. I still haven't seen that film, and Barry would be the only reason why I would, even though I've heard bits of the score and it's pretty unremarkable Barry. I do like Burwell though!
    :)

    It's a score that is pretty much just a continuous variant on a singular theme for the kid. It's an admittedly beautiful theme (one that Barry could do in his sleep), but it's not a score with a great deal of variety in it, unfortunately, so it doesn't really stick out in the Barry catalogue. Not a great film ultimately, either - a pretty standard 90s thriller.



    Burwell's music, strangely enough, was never released.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Yeah even quite a few of Burwell's scores haven't as far as I can find.
  • Posts: 113
    I love the score as is and it fits the film and the time it was made in. Of course on album some of the cues go on a bit and the film mix tones down a low of stuff but the whole thing manages to work. Experience of Love is the bit that never sits well with me but it's ok. If EON hires the guy who did the Leon score and he produces a score in his own manner just like what they ordered...they can't blame anyone but themselves.
    I would have been curious of how Barry would score GE, because he really wasn't the same composer who did Bond (heck, even 60s and 80s Barrys are different). In fact, Brad Bird hired him to do the score for THE INCREDIBLES because he wanted Barry to tap into his 60s Bond sound, but instead Barry kept delivering slow melancholy mood pieces because that's what he had settled into by that point in his life. When specifically asked if he could bring back that 60s sound Barry would tell him "I can do that in my sleep". Eventually, Barry dropped out.

    This is probably a factor in why David Arnold was hired, because he was very willing to do traditional Bond sounding scores unlike Barry.

    Also not forgetting Barry's previous work for Mercury Rising, after which the producers hired Carter Burwell to punch up the action material as they felt Barry's stuff was too sombre.

    One of the reasons Barry didn't work as much through the late 90s was because his style wasn't a fit with genre films of the time. I think the only exception is The Specialist.

    Funnily, one of Brad Bird’s plans was that after Barry would finish his score, Giacchino would be brought in to provide additional scoring, likely to punch up the Barry’s themes for the more fast pace sequences that Barry was unwilling to sync to.


    As it is, this trailer was the only thing Barry actually did work for THE INCREDIBLES, and it was just a reprisal of OHMSS.



    To be fair, Barry explained the reason he started making his action cues slower by the 90s was because he believed it was the best way for the music to cut through the action. That if it had synced up to the tempo of the action then the music would get lost in the sound mix, which is actually a big issue with modern film scoring.

    I do think it’s too bad he never continued with Bond beyond TLD and up to his retirement. To me he’s synonymous with Bond much like John Williams is with Indiana Jones. Makes me wonder how he would have approached CR if given the opportunity.

    It's an interesting thought about Barry doing GE and one wonders why he wasn't actively sought out. I think he would've scored the hell out of the somber moments in the film. He should have done another one. He almost did TND but it was apparently nixed because EON didn't want to meet his going rate which if true is an absolute shame.
    Bond suited Barry so well because he could retain the inherent cynicism and darkness of a Bond score which is the thing missing in most of his later career other scores for me. He's my favorite composer but I almost always find myself wishing for the balancing darkness of his Bond scores in certain films. Everyone and their brother likes to talk about the Somewhere in Time score which is gorgeous and haunting. The reason why it's so effective is because John scored his rear end off to make that movie work-but it shares many similarities with MR to my ears and lacks the darker feel which makes it not as effective. Similarly you can hear a lot of Bond cues throughout Dances With Wolves but that may have been also due to his ill health at the time and that Bond was inherent in his style regardless.

    The Mercury Rising score is frequently gorgeous, the best thing in the film and deserving of a film far better than what it is attached to. It reminds me a bit of his dumped score for the scrapped adventure film that eventually became The Golden Child.
  • DaltonFanDaltonFan California
    edited December 2020 Posts: 69
    Eric Serra is most definitely underrated! The soundtracks for The Fifth Elements and GoldenEye prove that!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,131
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    To call Eric Serra’s “GoldenEye” score an acquired taste is putting it mildly. Though some fans appreciate its originality (I don’t), many will find its synth-heavy sound lacks the rich orchestral flavor that’s been an integral part of the 007 film series since the very beginning.

    Even Michael G. Wilson referred to it as “controversial” during his audio commentary on the film’s Blu-ray. Hence, why John Altman was brought in to ‘fix’ the tank chase scene.
  • Posts: 7,500
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    Eric Serra is most definitely underrated! The soundtracks for The Fifth Elements and GoldenEye prove that!

    "Prove"?? How can a subjective matter of taste be proven?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2020 Posts: 23,449
    jobo wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    Eric Serra is most definitely underrated! The soundtracks for The Fifth Elements and GoldenEye prove that!

    "Prove"?? How can a subjective matter of taste be proven?

    No need to take the comment literally, @jobo. @DaltonFan knows that one cannot prove a thing when it comes to taste, I'm sure. ;-)

    Hyperbole aside, I agree with DaltonFan that TFE is a really good soundtrack.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!

    Agreed. My comment was a tad facetious.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!

    Agreed. My comment was a tad facetious.

    I would never argue too strongly against anyone who doesn't like it, put it that way. I completely understand why they don't!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!

    Agreed. My comment was a tad facetious.

    I would never argue too strongly against anyone who doesn't like it, put it that way. I completely understand why they don't!

    Agreed. I was saying it’s overrated as the title of the post suggests it’s underrated.

    IMO it’s a terrible score bar the GB, pre title sequence, tank chase and love scenes.
  • Posts: 7,500
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!

    Agreed. My comment was a tad facetious.

    I would never argue too strongly against anyone who doesn't like it, put it that way. I completely understand why they don't!

    Agreed. I was saying it’s overrated as the title of the post suggests it’s underrated.

    IMO it’s a terrible score bar the GB, pre title sequence, tank chase and love scenes.


    I agree. While the tracks in the best Barry scores range from decent to outstanding, the tracks in Goldeneye range from decent to outright bad...
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    jobo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    I don't think that's possible considering the numbers of people who dislike it wildly outweigh the number of people who do!

    Agreed. My comment was a tad facetious.

    I would never argue too strongly against anyone who doesn't like it, put it that way. I completely understand why they don't!

    Agreed. I was saying it’s overrated as the title of the post suggests it’s underrated.

    IMO it’s a terrible score bar the GB, pre title sequence, tank chase and love scenes.


    I agree. While the tracks in the best Barry scores range from decent to outstanding, the tracks in Goldeneye range from decent to outright bad...

    Exactly.
  • Some of the Goldeneye tracks feel...off putting to say the least. I always point to the music during the race with Onnatop as a prime example. That track is just outright awful. Awful enough to make someone’s ears bleed.

    Yet I find tracks like the Gunbarrel, The Goldeneye Overture, and The Scale to Hell absolutely superb.

    I think people’s love for the Goldeneye soundtrack comes from that fact that it fits the atmosphere of Goldeneye incredibly well. I’m hard pressed to think of better example’s from within the series of the soundtracks just adding to the atmosphere and darkness as well as Goldeneye does.

    Now is it a masterpiece like say, the soundtracks to FRWL, OHMSS, or TLD? No, absolutely not. But I personally enjoy some tracks off of it. I’d say, yes it’s kind of underrated to a degree, but I also can realize the worse of its excesses as being particularly bad.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Some parts of it are. The "we share the same passions" theme in the casino is excellent. I forget the names of the other two, maybe "keeps you alone" and The cradle at the climax. The rest is fair to crap.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2020 Posts: 8,000
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    To call Eric Serra’s “GoldenEye” score an acquired taste is putting it mildly. Though some fans appreciate its originality (I don’t), many will find its synth-heavy sound lacks the rich orchestral flavor that’s been an integral part of the 007 film series since the very beginning.

    Even Michael G. Wilson referred to it as “controversial” during his audio commentary on the film’s Blu-ray. Hence, why John Altman was brought in to ‘fix’ the tank chase scene.

    So a small fraction of Bond fans liking Serra’s score constitutes as overrated?

    I get you have an unreasonably massive rage boner for anything Brosnan era and always look for any opportunity to knock it down... but give me break.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The score is overrated rather than underrated IMO.

    To call Eric Serra’s “GoldenEye” score an acquired taste is putting it mildly. Though some fans appreciate its originality (I don’t), many will find its synth-heavy sound lacks the rich orchestral flavor that’s been an integral part of the 007 film series since the very beginning.

    Even Michael G. Wilson referred to it as “controversial” during his audio commentary on the film’s Blu-ray. Hence, why John Altman was brought in to ‘fix’ the tank chase scene.

    So a small fraction of Bond fans liking Serra’s score constitutes as overrated?

    I get you have an unreasonably massive rage boner for anything Brosnan era and always look for any opportunity to knock it down... but give me break.

    Quite a ‘perverse’ analogy! Brilliant....ha ha ha.

    I actually think GE is ok along with the first hour of TND, the pre-title of TWINE and the pre-title of DAD.

    I also think Brosnan was let down by poor scripts rather than anything else as well.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    I agree about being let down by subpar scripts, particularly TND/TWINE/DAD.
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