SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,926
    timmer wrote:
    bondsum wrote:
    My understanding is that Desmond Llewelyn was unavailable for LALD due to his work commitment on the TV series Follyfoot, otherwise he would have appeared in the movie. Fortunately, for him reprising the role, Follyfoot was cancelled after 1973 which allowed him to return for MWTGG.
    Interesting, so with Des not available, maybe it was decided to take Rog out of the Mi6 HQ environment altogether, at least for the first film.

    Re Leiter: I think the reason Eon kept changing up Leiter is two-fold. First off and most importantly, they didn't want another alpha-male lead type like Jack Lord stealing any of Connery's thunder, so the older, far less dashing Cec Linder was introduced for GF.
    Also by changing up the actor, they could again play with the audience not recognizing Leiter.
    We saw this technique originally in DN, where it appeared that Leiter might be an enemy, until he introduced himself.
    Terence Young re-visited the scenario in TB with this time Bond identifying him.
    And Bond identifies Leiter for us again in DAF.

    I take it this is the time and place to start my 'Felix Leiter is a code-name discussion'?




    *runs*
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,494
    LALD PS:

    Oh yes, and finally: what are we to make of the fade-out shot with Baron Samedi riding on the front of the train, laughing at the audience? Did he survive the snake-filled coffin, and is he going to attack Bond moments after the film closes? No, I don't think so. As the Baron is Lord of the Dead in the voodoo pantheon, I think this is the one and only actual ghost we'll ever see in a James Bond movie. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

    That's how I see it now as well- back then not quite being a teen, I really had to wonder if the Baron had somehow survived the snake coffin.

    It's sad to think about the racism of those times, it really is. My experience was mixed with that. On one hand, my parents and especially my grandparents could have easily been called racists judging by their commentary on a fairly daily basis about what was wrong with "those people". On the other hand, my town had black families that had been there and accepted for several generations, and their descendants didn't exhibit the same attitudes as I would later see from a city black girl who had moved to our area and every other word out of her mouth was about those "damn honky caucasians". Let's just say that our locals must have straightened her out as to the fact that she was in a different place now because eventually she shut her piehole, although I don't think she ever went to school with us. We all grew up knowing each other since kindergarten, and except for 1-2 fights I can remember happening, we all got along in the spirit Dr. King spoke of. I always felt he was exactly right, people are people, and assholes/racists occur in every race/creed and I don't think any race or creed is any more racist than the other. One of my old black classmates is a member here although I don't know if he's ever posted, but we have been like brothers since we were little and always will be. One of my best friends period is/was the guitar tech from the famous Brooklyn band Living Colour, knew him from my days living in NYC and I would trust him with my life and those of my children.

    You've covered Sir Rog's first go around quite well for me, but I'm on record in saying that I would have much preferred Blacula co-star Vonetta McGee (a native of your home area which you no doubt knew) for the part of Rosie Carver. I never liked Hendry either for her looks nor acting, and always thought it was a poor choice. Otherwise, I thought the casting was about as perfect as it could be, especially pleasing to me is that both Julius Harris and Lon Satton are Philadelphians :)

    Personally, I love the vodoun (the correct name for voodoo) plot and that's what makes this film so memorable and one of my favorites. By then I had rejected Roman Catholicism and Christianity in general and had begun to explore alternative religions. The tarot cards fascinated me (and are not strictly Vodoun as far as it's main roots in African tribal religion, they were no doubt introduced by the French into Caribbean culture and are most likely Northern Italian in earliest origins) and I bought a pack of them shortly thereafter and learned their meanings before discovering my true calling were the runes of the Elder Futhark.

    J.W Pepper is one of all time favorite supporting roles and I'm a fan of Clifton James' work in general as I feel he is a very underrated comedic genius. I love him equally in TMWTGG but we'll save that one. So many laugh out loud moments are in this film and come from almost everyone involved. As far as the music, this soundtrack is in my opinion the best non-Barry in the canon and Martin does an amazing job capturing the eerie vibe that Bond no doubt experiences. The title song is of course timeless and I love the GNR version equally well.

    In summation, I feel LALD is a top 10 worthy film (it now sits at #11 for me as Skyfall has bumped it out) and is my 2nd favorite of the Moore era. I loved the film the first time I saw it and still find it to be tremendously entertaining, I watch it several times a year to this day and never tire of it.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    And I just want to say again, for the record: Paul rocks. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,655
    And I just want to say again, for the record: Paul rocks. ;)
    No doubt at all.
    J.W Pepper is one of all time favorite supporting roles and I'm a fan of Clifton James' work in general as I feel he is a very underrated comedic genius. I love him equally in TMWTGG but we'll save that one. So many laugh out loud moments are in this film and come from almost everyone involved. As far as the music, this soundtrack is in my opinion the best non-Barry in the canon and Martin does an amazing job capturing the eerie vibe that Bond no doubt experiences. The title song is of course timeless and I love the GNR version equally well.
    I loved the film the first time I saw it and still find it to be tremendously entertaining, I watch it several times a year to this day and never tire of it.
    I recently watched again after a decade long self-imposed hiatus due to a personal problem with the villain death scene, and I find it now tied with my #1 Moore film, so, uh, now I have 2 #1 Moore films.
  • Posts: 4,622
    LALD is one of the great post-sixties Bond films. Much like DAF it very much captures the flamboyant vibe of the early '70s.
    It's unapologetically politically incorrect, as most films refreshingly were back then, so Pepper and Kananga et al, can carry on like the eccentric louts they are, while our level-headed Bond keeps it all grounded.
    One of my favourite Bonds. I watch it as least 3x per year. Crank the sound up too, the Martin score is one of the best.
    McCartney and G&R still include LALD as a staple of their live shows.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,564
    And I just want to say again, for the record: Paul rocks. ;)
    timmer wrote:
    McCartney and G&R still include LALD as a staple of their live shows.

    The one time I saw Sir Paul live, he played LALD -- and you could literally feel concusion from the explosives set off in time to the music, no matter where you were in the stadium! Paul does indeed rock, may he continue for many years yet to come!
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 4,622
    According to IMDB, the great Bond-girl voice-dubber Nikki Van der Zyl not only voiced a a bevy of '60s Bond girls such as Honey Ryder, Sylvia Trench, Jill Masterson, Domino, Kissy but also '70s Bond girls Solitaire and Corinne Dufour.
    Huh!? Who knew.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0886424/
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,655
    timmer wrote:
    Solitaire
    Whoah dude, I'm a Jane fan from back in the day, and if she dubbed her, it was a small thing in post- Ms. Seymours' voice is like '51 Solera, unmistakable.
  • Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Solitaire
    Whoah dude, I'm a Jane fan from back in the day, and if she dubbed her, it was a small thing in post- Ms. Seymours' voice is like '51 Solera, unmistakable.
    I honestly don't know. I just stumbled across that listing today. I always thought that was the real Jane too.

  • edited July 2013 Posts: 2,341
    I never saw any racism in LALD. It was a hip film and lots of fun and it was great to see all those black faces in a Bond movie.

    If I was going to cry racism in a Bond movie, I would point to DN and possibly GF. Goldfinger not so much but DN is blatant in its racism.
    I submit to my fellow "originals" the treatment of Quarrel. Early on he is treated with respect and as an Equal but after they get to Crabtree we see the crap.
    First he is shown drinking rum like a drunken fool. (Up to this point we see nothing that would hint that Quarrel drinks) that weird music they play while he downs the rum.

    The ultimate being when Bond orders Quarrel to "fetch my shoes". WTF?
    anybody here know how degrading that is? I would not fetch any man's shoes. That is a condescending order that one gives to lackeys, servants [or slaves].

    If anyone here missed that and what it implies, I suggest you go back and watch DN again. Pay attention to the night club scene with the dancers and look at the men's faces.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Solitaire
    Whoah dude, I'm a Jane fan from back in the day, and if she dubbed her, it was a small thing in post- Ms. Seymours' voice is like '51 Solera, unmistakable.

    I completely agree. I'd say 99% is unmistakably Jane. van der Zyl may have done her screams or maybe the sounds she was making when TeeHee locked her up in the pull out train bed, but there is no way she dubbed her extensively.

    Co-favorites for your #1 Moore film you say? I'm not seeing that as a terrible thing ;).

    OHMSS69 wrote:
    I never saw any racism in LALD. It was a hip film and lots of fun and it was great to see all those black faces in a Bond movie.

    If I was going to cry racism in a Bond movie, I would point to DN and possibly GF. Goldfinger not so much but DN is blatant in its racism.
    I submit to my fellow "originals" the treatment of Quarrel. Early on he is treated with respect and as an Equal but after they get to Crab Key we see the crap.
    First he is shown drinking rum like a drunken fool. (Up to this point we see nothing that would hint that Quarrel drinks) that weird music they play while he downs the rum.

    The ultimate being when Bond orders Quarrel to "fetch my shoes". WTF?
    anybody here know how degrading that is? I would not fetch any man's shoes. That is a condescending order that one gives to lackeys, servants [or slaves].

    If anyone here missed that and what it implies, I suggest you go back and watch DN again. Pay attention to the night club scene with the dancers and look at the men's faces.

    I am absolutely flabbergasted by this @OHMSS69. You may not have "seen" any racism, but you hear plenty of it coming from Pepper and the villains, and even Strutter.

    Kananga/Big lookout- you got a honky on your tail
    Strutter- It's like following a cue ball.
    Mr.Big- Names is for tombstones. Y'all take this honky outside and waste him.

    How can you possibly see less racism in this dialogue??? It's blatantly racist unless you agree with calling people derogatory epithets such as "honky". Do you have any idea how insulted I felt when that bitch got on my school bus with all her "honky caucasian" bullshit? Any idea how bad I wanted to slap her? Our black locals didn't come to her defense except to say how ignorant she was and how poorly she was raised, and were quite embarrassed by the whole situation. They took care of it before someone like me knocked the teeth out of her gutter mouth. I have zero time for racism out of anyone, and there are no excuses for it short of utter ignorance, immaturity, and a poor upbringing.

    I think Quarrel was drinking like that not out of some racist portrayal, but simply that he was a superstitious man and believed the "dragon" was real, so he fortified himself with some liquid courage thinking he might not come back. Many people take a drink for similar reasons when it comes to doing a task that is really bugging them and one they don't want to do. This knows no racial boundaries, it's a human weakness and failing. We've already discussed "fetch my shoes" and I have no problem with anyone feeling it was degrading because it was. I wouldn't have done it either and you can bet some foul oral and sign language would have been forthcoming as well. Sean or John Kitzmiller should have stood up and said this wasn't acceptable.

    No matter how much we dislike these examples and realize how out of place it is in these modern times, at least both are honest reflections of the attitudes then. Not only should we give our interpretations of these films as works of art, we should also make social commentary where appropriate and try to impart that this wasn't anymore acceptable then than it is now. There is no defense for what we see in either movie and saying one is more acceptable than the other is, to me, a crock full of horseshit.


  • Posts: 2,341
    @ SirHenryChaChing
    Lest we forget the Pepper remark of "black Russians'. WTF??
    You make a point about the movie trying to be relevant in the 1970's and if you watch some of the movies of the day, "Shaft" or "Superfly" you hear this kind of talk all over the place. That is what was acceptable in the blaxploitation era of film making. Lots of trash talking and racial epitheths.

    If you are offended by what Kanaga said about names and tombstones, then how do you think other people feel when the N word is used in movies like "Roots", "Red Tails"? The word is there in dialoge to add some realism to the times and the attitudes of people in the slavery times and during World War II.

    Personally, I do not feel offended hearing that word in movies about World War II or films like "Django Unchained".

    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Sure all people drink, like that scene in "Birth of a Nation" when those Black legislators were sitting in chambers drinking whiskey and eating chicken. Am i comparing DR NO to that racist film from 1915? No, I'm just making a point.
    We did not need the "fetch my shoes" from Bond and some of the other blatant scenes in DN.

    I hope can have this conversation because many of our countrymen want to sweep it under the rug and ignore the elephant.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,655
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    Lest we forget the Pepper remark of "black Russians'. WTF??
    That was and is very funny IMO. It is making fun of JW, not anyone else.
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?
    You are reading far too much into this, my friend. If I were in Quarrel's place, a superstitious islander as he was, I'd get a little sauced up as well, regardless of my skin tone.
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    I hope can have this conversation because many of our countrymen want to sweep it under the rug and ignore the elephant.
    What elephant, Dumbo? Please, if you must insist on PC, look to later Bonds, and in the future you can shoot THEM down as well. Star Trek is where we have evolved, and even there, sexism is still rampant (miniskirts in space, yeah, BABY!).
    :))
  • Posts: 2,341
    @Chrisisall
    As for PC look to later Bonds. Yeah, cool. I was just pointing out how LALD got so many cries of racism (unjustified) and everyone seem to ignore DN for its blatant racism.

    The movies did evolve away from the mess we saw in DN (and to a lesser extent GF which is also very sexist)

    In later films we see many black characters portrayed in respectful ways (The Brosnan films, LTK, and more recent SF).

  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,564
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Why was Bond not drinking rum? Because he was still hung over from all the vodka martinis (shaken, not stirred) that he'd had the night before. I'm sorry, @OHMSS, but you're a bit off the mark here. If you can't see racism in a movie that starts off with a beautiful virginal white girl being lashed to a voodoo altar by a mob of howling black men (and yes, a few black women too) then I recommend a visit to your optometrist ASAP! The conversation regarding the order to "fetch" in Dr. No has already been covered here awhile back, you're welcome to revisit that if you'd like. The rest of us are moving on...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2013 Posts: 17,655
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    I was just pointing out how LALD got so many cries of racism (unjustified) and everyone seem to ignore DN for its blatant racism.
    DN displayed a degree of the racism of the era to be sure, but I hold that it was nowhere NEAR the separate drinking fountain/KKK BS to be found in everyday life in the U.S. at that time. In reality, DN was fairly enlightened IMO. Quarrel was a significant character, and not played for a laff.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 23
    JBFan626 wrote:
    I'm curious to know, what did you as fans go to for all things Bond? Nowawadays, we have the internet with IMDB, Wikipedia, Mi6 HQ, etc. We also have a compendium of info from the DVD special features and commentaries. So every minutia of detail or trivia about Bond you could possibly want to know is available virtually at our fingerprints. But in the 60's and 70's was there any one popular fanclub that fans would go to? Were there Bond trivia books that were popular at the time? Were there any Bond conventions? Or did you just simply watch the films over and over again whenever they were in the cinemas or on tv and try to absorb as much as you could? I've read that Bond didn't go into syndication on television until the early 70's; is this true?

    Along the lines of that question, do you feel like there is a lot more knowledge about Bond that you didn't know prior to the internet, or was that information always well known? (I.e.: we're all basically Bond scholars now). If so, do you feel that knowing all this trivia has diminished your enjoyment of the series or has it rather boosted your fandom instead?

    Back in the earlier days there was only one fan club in the U.S.A. that I remember which was devoted entirely to the subject of James Bond. It was THE JAMES BOND 007 FAN CLUB, located out of Bronxville, New York. It's President was a young man by the name of Richard Schenkman, who wrote most of the articles himself which appeared in "BONDAGE" magazine, the club fanzine. Richard's mother also helped out by answering letters written by club members. When I first became aware of the club's existence (through a friend) I immediately joined, beginning in 1976. I remained a devoted member until the very end in 1989, occasionally contributing my ideas and even placing ads in the magazine to help sell my Bond Memorabilia. I'm 56 years old.

    It was an absolute joy to receive an issue of "BONDAGE" semi-annually, although sometimes it was a much longer wait between issues than was expected. Issues of the club newsletter "BONDAGE QUARTERLY" helped fill in the waiting period until the next issue of "BONDAGE" arrived. I felt sort of privileged to me a member, as my knowledge on the subject of all things Bond was superior to most people as there was really no other outlet to acquire new information on the current status of the next Bond film to go into production. The club kept us updated as to what was going on and also provided some fine interviews with some of the Production team and cast members.

    As far as information available before the internet, it was limited to what was provided by the fan club. There were also various magazine articles written about the films and Fleming novels at that time. To name just a few would include PLAYBOY, LIFE and TIME magazine and books written by other authors pertaining mainly to the literary character. One such book was THE JAMES BOND DOSSIER, by Kingsley Amis. The first really good book written about the films was JAMES BOND IN THE CINEMA, by John Brosnan.

    You make a good point when you say that we are all basically Bond scholars now. It was so much different years ago, but in a way, I think I enjoyed the whole experience more because you looked forward to any new reading material you could get your hands on. Everything is at our fingertips now. A few clicks of the mouse and the information is available from various sources, although sometimes the information is not always accurate. However, that's not to say I don't enjoy the internet. This is a fabulous forum to discuss James Bond and to exchange thoughts and ideas, even if some of us are a little bit older.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 23
    If there are any other former members of the U.S.A. based JAMES BOND 007 FAN CLUB out there, it would be great to hear from any of you with your memories about the club and your current thoughts about the film series.
  • Posts: 2,341
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Why was Bond not drinking rum? Because he was still hung over from all the vodka martinis (shaken, not stirred) that he'd had the night before. I'm sorry, @OHMSS, but you're a bit off the mark here. If you can't see racism in a movie that starts off with a beautiful virginal white girl being lashed to a voodoo altar by a mob of howling black men (and yes, a few black women too) then I recommend a visit to your optometrist ASAP! The conversation regarding the order to "fetch" in Dr. No has already been covered here awhile back, you're welcome to revisit that if you'd like. The rest of us are moving on...

    Cut me some slack Jack! In regards to LALD you are being overly sensitive. The scene with the virginal white girl being sacrificed was in keeping with the narrative. You are reading way too much into it. Now tell me where the scenes we have discussed in DN were a key part to the narrative.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,926
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Why was Bond not drinking rum? Because he was still hung over from all the vodka martinis (shaken, not stirred) that he'd had the night before. I'm sorry, @OHMSS, but you're a bit off the mark here. If you can't see racism in a movie that starts off with a beautiful virginal white girl being lashed to a voodoo altar by a mob of howling black men (and yes, a few black women too) then I recommend a visit to your optometrist ASAP! The conversation regarding the order to "fetch" in Dr. No has already been covered here awhile back, you're welcome to revisit that if you'd like. The rest of us are moving on...

    Cut me some slack Jack! In regards to LALD you are being overly sensitive. The scene with the virginal white girl being sacrificed was in keeping with the narrative. You are reading way too much into it. Now tell me where the scenes we have discussed in DN were a key part to the narrative.

    Quarrel is reluctant to go to the island because he 'knows'of the dragon. I would be quite interested in your reactions if you were heading out to a very likely death as a poor, untrained fisherman. Nobody here seems to notice Quarrel is shown as a very brave and loyal friend to Bond. His drinking thus serves a purpose: it shows us how nervous he really is.

    Why Bond isn't drinking: 1 he doesn't believe in the existance of any dragons
    2. he's very well trained government agent who's seen death in the face many times before.

    Oh, and it's Dutch courage! I as a Dutchman am proud of that connotation.
  • OHMSS69 wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Why was Bond not drinking rum? Because he was still hung over from all the vodka martinis (shaken, not stirred) that he'd had the night before. I'm sorry, @OHMSS, but you're a bit off the mark here. If you can't see racism in a movie that starts off with a beautiful virginal white girl being lashed to a voodoo altar by a mob of howling black men (and yes, a few black women too) then I recommend a visit to your optometrist ASAP! The conversation regarding the order to "fetch" in Dr. No has already been covered here awhile back, you're welcome to revisit that if you'd like. The rest of us are moving on...

    Cut me some slack Jack! In regards to LALD you are being overly sensitive. The scene with the virginal white girl being sacrificed was in keeping with the narrative. You are reading way too much into it. Now tell me where the scenes we have discussed in DN were a key part to the narrative.
    Okay, first of all, I have to correct myself: the film BEGINS with a white MALE on the voodoo altar, it features the white WOMAN on that same altar about 4/5 of the way through the movie. The voodoo cultists may be racists, but at least they're not sexists too!

    Second of all, @OHMSS69, you've at least got your period slang right. What it is, homey!

    And to @Commander Ross as well as @OHMSS69: seriously, the discussion of my Dr. No review a few months back did indeed cover all this; I did indeed laud Quarrel's courage and dedication in the face of his very serious and sensible fear. I also faulted Bond for the "fetching" comment at that time. Been there, done that...

    And finally, for those of you who may be anxiously awaiting my next review, TMWTGG will probably be posted NEXT weekend rather than this'n. Sorry, but "some things just aren't done"...and trifling with holiday schedules is one of them! Happy 4th of July, everybody!
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,494
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    As for the drinking, why was Bond not getting loaded up on rum? Oh, let me guess he was not nervous being a trained 00 agent and all but Quarrel really needed it. Tell me did any other Bond accomplices get rummed up prior to important work.?

    Why was Bond not drinking rum? Because he was still hung over from all the vodka martinis (shaken, not stirred) that he'd had the night before. I'm sorry, @OHMSS, but you're a bit off the mark here. If you can't see racism in a movie that starts off with a beautiful virginal white girl being lashed to a voodoo altar by a mob of howling black men (and yes, a few black women too) then I recommend a visit to your optometrist ASAP! The conversation regarding the order to "fetch" in Dr. No has already been covered here awhile back, you're welcome to revisit that if you'd like. The rest of us are moving on...

    Cut me some slack Jack! In regards to LALD you are being overly sensitive. The scene with the virginal white girl being sacrificed was in keeping with the narrative. You are reading way too much into it. Now tell me where the scenes we have discussed in DN were a key part to the narrative.
    Okay, first of all, I have to correct myself: the film BEGINS with a white MALE on the voodoo altar, it features the white WOMAN on that same altar about 4/5 of the way through the movie. The voodoo cultists may be racists, but at least they're not sexists too!

    Second of all, @OHMSS69, you've at least got your period slang right. What it is, homey!

    And to @Commander Ross as well as @OHMSS69: seriously, the discussion of my Dr. No review a few months back did indeed cover all this; I did indeed laud Quarrel's courage and dedication in the face of his very serious and sensible fear. I also faulted Bond for the "fetching" comment at that time. Been there, done that...

    And finally, for those of you who may be anxiously awaiting my next review, TMWTGG will probably be posted NEXT weekend rather than this'n. Sorry, but "some things just aren't done"...and trifling with holiday schedules is one of them! Happy 4th of July, everybody!

    You get a "right on, brother" from the LALD cabbie and perhaps even a meal ticket to the next KKK cookout in your area :P. We covered DN's racism and @OHMSS69 should be satisfied by now that we agree with him. I'm also done with that although I owe him some answers to his last post to me. You have a great 4th and we'll see you next week for TMWTGG when we can debate the plight of the vertically challenged ;)

    @OHMSS69- if I'm understanding you correctly, I think you're trying to say that what we hear in LALD and in "Roots" and "Red Tail" are justifiable as period pieces reflecting the attitudes of the time and what we see in DN isn't. I'll accept that point of view for the sake of historical accuracy. But that doesn't mean I have to like any of these four examples and I don't, none of it is acceptable. Here's how I look at things- I don't see color, I see people. Something else you might be interested in knowing about me personally.

    Around the time LALD was out, my aunt got pregnant by her high school boyfriend. He was black and my grandparents knew nothing about him or what had happened until after the fact. My grandpa, who Archie Bunker had nothing on because he didn't like Jews or even Italians let alone minorities, refused to let my aunt bring his own grandson into his house, let alone even take a look at him. He was ignorant in the way he was raised and didn't have a whole lot of other redeeming qualities either for that matter, and believe me I'm plenty ashamed about all of that. My cuz Jeff is one of the best people I've ever known and he's my blood and I would love the guy even if he were purple with pink polka dots. He's got more class than me by a mile and then some. I think you may now have a better idea of where I'm coming from, and my sense of fair play for all.

    Happy 4th to everyone!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,926
    @BeatlesSans and @SirHenry indeed, my apologies. I got carried away and indeed we've talked about it before. Just wanted to note here that whilst sexism and racism are evil, nationalism seems to be ok to a certain standard. which, somehow, seems odd to me. Still, I'm proud of anything Dutch, as long as it isn't apartheid ;-)
  • Updated ratings from the originals after 23 films, as of 11:30PM U.S EST-


    1. Casino Royale- 4.33
    2. Goldfinger- 4.30
    3. From Russia With Love- 4.26
    4. Skyfall (5/7 reviews)- 4.20
    5. The Living Daylights- 4.12
    6. Thunderball- 4.09
    7. Licence To Kill- 4.06
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.05
    9. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 3.99
    10. For Your Eyes Only- 3.91
    11. You Only Live Twice- 3.90
    12. Live And Let Die- 3.81
    13. GoldenEye- 3.75
    14. Octopussy- 3.73
    15. Tomorrow Never Dies- 3.63
    16. Dr. No- 3.57
    17. Quantum Of Solace- 3.42
    18. A View To A Kill- 3.28
    19. The World Is Not Enough- 3.17
    20. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.13
    21. Diamonds Are Forever- 2.99
    22. Moonraker- 2.97
    23. Die Another Day- 2.70

    Good afternoon fellow originals and guests! No changes in position from last week to report, although TMWTGG could yet make a move over TWINE when @Beatles returns to give his views on the film.

    Have a great holiday weekend everyone!
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,564
    THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN

    This film is a very mixed bag for me, with some really nice elements and some absolutely atrocious moments mixed together with little rhyme or reason. It’s almost as if the power-that-be at Eon were no longer quite sure what sort of story that were attempting to tell in this series -- the “serious” espionage tales of FRWL were no longer the desired goal, but the camp themes of the Batman TV show weren’t exactly what the filmmakers were aiming for either. The fun house scene in the PTS is indicative of the creative quandary at work here. At times bizarre and colorful, at other times lightly humorous, abruptly turning somewhat chilling -- this scene obviously telegraphs the climax of the film by depicting a mannequin of Bond with gun in hand as Scaramanga’s target (and eventual executioner.) The moment the theme song began, I already knew how the story would end, with Bond deceiving Scaramanga by pretending to be the mannequin. I guess suspense wasn’t Eon’s top priority on this go-round. I can only wonder what WAS their priority, other than keeping the series commercially successful…

    BOND 3/5 Roger Moore’s rendition of James Bond, which began so promisingly in LALD, lost a lot of stature for me with this film. He’s something of a buffoon here (swallowing the belly dancer’s “lucky charm”)…he’s just plain rude to his leading lady at several points (although Britt Eklund doesn’t exactly come off as deserving of much respect, depicting one of the most empty-headed Bond girls in series history)…and his “knight in shining armor” persona (an important aspect of the character according to Ian Fleming) takes a severe thrashing with his surprisingly rough treatment of Andrea, a sympathetic character who deserves better but doesn‘t get it in this film. Perhaps the nadir for Moore’s Bond comes with a few very weak minutes during the fight scene at the martial arts academy and Bond’s subsequent escape. Bond is shown to be a cheater in the initial fight with a student (kicking him in the face while the student engages in a ritualistic bow to his opponent)…a fairly poor combatant as well, needing to be rescued from the enraged academy by two high-kicking young schoolgirls…and finally, an ingrate who is less than scrupulous about honoring his debts, when he pushes a young beggar out of his boat after promising to pay him a substantial sum for fixing his malfunctioning craft. Sean Connery’s Bond would have been ashamed at Moore’s antics in these few minutes, strung together one-after-the-other in a parade of embarrassment.

    WOMEN 2.5/5 As previously mentioned, Britt Eklund as Mary Goodnight receives little respect from either Bond or this movie’s script-writers. Yes, she’s gorgeous -- but she makes such elementary mistakes that she’d be kicked out of spy school before the first day of classes, no matter how pretty she may be. When given the film’s Maguffin, the Solex Agitator (a solution to the energy crisis that somehow never managed to make it into the Real World, but never mind that now…) all she has to do to save the day is to run off somewhere safe and deliver the SA to HQ. Game over, film over, the Good Guys Win and all’s right with the world. But no…Goodnight has to play “Follow the Midget” so she can be captured by Scaramanga and the film gets to run another 45 minutes or so. This way she can almost get Bond killed by activating Scaramanga’s Solar Generator with her bikini-clad bottom. And blow up his island hideaway by throwing a henchman into the nitrogen-based coolant pool. Oh well, at least she can look good for the mandatory end-of-film lovemaking scene with Bond, and that’s really what’s important here, right? Bond seems annoyed by Goodnight from the moment she appears onscreen, and she gives him plenty of reason to be upset with her. Frankly, one wonders why Bond gives Goodnight the benefit of his amorous intentions--aside from the fact that she’s undeniably gorgeous, she’s also teeth-grindingly stupid. Maud Adams presents a much more interesting character as Andrea Anders, Scaramanga’s emotionally-abused girlfriend, who sets the film into motion by sending a golden bullet with “007” etched into it to MI6 headquarters in London, hoping that Bond can manage to free her from the film’s titular villain. Some fans have derided Adams’ performance as being “wooden,” but I think that’s a misinterpretation. Adams is convincing in portraying a victim of abuse who has gone a little bit dead inside. It’s a subtle performance, one that can easily be overlooked except for her stark looks of terror that come and go as the situation requires. Adams seems to have a good rapport with Moore, and even if her character is killed off a little too quickly in this film, that just means we can look forward to seeing more of her a few years down the road.

    VILLAINS 4/5 Christopher Lee as Francisco Scaramanga and Herve’ Villechaize as Nick Nick are two of the shining lights in this otherwise-disappointing outing. Lee is one of the best beloved evil-doers in all of film history, and his performance as the title character in this movie gives ample evidence of his flair for cinematic villainy. He is dashing and sinister, whether stalking a hired killer in his fun house or explaining the details of his scheme to Bond over a sumptuous meal prepared by Nick Nack. Scaramanga’s back-story as originally crafted by Fleming is wisely kept intact, providing the character with a genuine pathos. Herve’ Villechaiz is note-perfect as Nick Nack, one of the most unusual henchmen in the Bond canon. Yes, he wants Scaramanga’s plan to succeed…but he also wants him to fail and be killed, so that he can inherit the Scaramanga estate. Nick Nack is humorous as well as creepy, just exactly the sort of character that the re-imagined Bond series of the ‘70s requires. Marc Lawrence is also seen in a welcome return to the series as a humorous hitman who is hired by Nick Nack, only to be dispatched by Scaramanga in the PTS. The one false note in this roster of villainy is Richard Loo as the absurdly-named Hi Fat. Does he have a brother named Lo? Or a cousin named M.T. Carbs? These bad jokes, which can only distract us from the dramatic narrative of the film, bring us to our next category…

    HUMOR 2.5/5 The over-reliance on forced humor is probably this film’s biggest downfall. “Speak now or forever hold your piece.” Perhaps this is why I’ve already mentioned some of the more egregious attempts at humor in other categories, when discussing the naming of Hi Fat, Bond’s escape from the martial arts academy, or the various antics of Mary Goodnight. But don’t worry, I’ve saved the worst for last: the return of J.W. Pepper! It can be argued that in LALD, Pepper’s jovial racism was appropriately placed…a counterpoint to the black racism Bond encounters at the hands of Kanaga’s crew and an indication that white racism was still entirely too prevalent in various places in the USA circa 1972. In this film, however, Pepper is totally out of place. If one does simply accept the existence of a walking caricature like Pepper, one would still be hard-pressed to believe that such a person would be likely to take a vacation in Asia, where all he would find would be subjects likely to raise his racist hackles…and British secret agents, of course. What else could be more natural? Some folks have a hard time with the slide-whistle that punctuates the impressive cork-screw bridge jump stunt; for me the mere presence of J.W. Pepper in the scene has already rendered this entire portion of the film irredeemably tainted. I’m not sure whether to score this category as 1/5 because the humor is so out of place, or 5/5 because it is such an overpowering element of the film. I guess I’ll score it straight down the middle; it’s unquestionably there but I really wish it weren’t…

    ACTION 2/5 I accept that much of Fleming’s original novel is unusable for the purposes of this film; I only wish that it had been replaced with something coherent. Instead, we are left with a plot that only marginally addresses the situations it sets up: Anders has arranged a confrontation between Scaramanga and Bond hoping that Bond will free her from Scaramanga’s clutches; instead, bringing Bond into the scenario ensures Andrea’s death at Scaramanga’s hands. Bond is pulled off his existing assignment, having to do with a solution to that great bugaboo of the ‘70s, the energy crisis, and given….no assignment at all really. M just implies that it would be nice for Bond to take Scaramanga out of the picture. Bond investigates, and finds out that, lo & behold, Scaramanga is actually planning on assassinating the fellow Bond had originally been assigned to protect. Unfortunately, Bond doesn’t learn this until AFTER said assassination has taken place. Mary Goodnight has been assigned to assist Bond, but --wait a minute!-- I thought he didn’t actually HAVE an assignment at that point! And so forth. Nothing in this film really holds together when examined beyond the surface level. Here’s one fatal example of the senselessness at hand: Lt. Hip and his nieces swing by the martial arts academy to rescue Bond just as he comes crashing through a window, landing in front of them. How they knew where to find him is not actually explained, but we’ll let that point alone for now. Rescue him they do, and they all rush to their car…only Hip and the nieces get into the car and speed off, leaving Bond to manage his own escape from his pursuers via watercraft. HUH? There is a nice moment with Bond and Scaramanga back-to-back for a duel between Walther PPK & the famous Golden Gun…but when Bond whirls around to fire, Scaramanga is nowhere to be found. He has ducked away into his fun house, setting up the climax that we KNEW ALL ALONG would have to take place. Too much in this movie occurs because that’s the way the script-writers WANT it to occur. When I first saw this movie in 1974 I thought it made no sense because I had been ingesting too many illicit substances before entering the theatre; upon watching it now I can only suspect that this was (sadly) the case for the scriptwriters…

    SADISM 3.5/5 At the heart of this narrative, there are several pretty creepy --and ultimately sadistic--interactions on display. Scaramanga’s emotionally abusive relationship with Andrea is the most obvious -- his fetishistic habit of making love to her before performing an assassination, caressing her face with the barrel of his golden pistol, is mirrored by Bond’s nearly ritualistic need to have carnal relations with a woman at the end of every assignment. Andrea at least is aware of --and resentful for-- her mistreatment. Goodnight isn’t even that self-aware. Yet Bond is clearly using her for his own gratification. He obviously doesn’t like or respect her very much, but he’s going to take her as his just reward for a job well done. Scaramanga’s relationship with Nick Nack is also pretty twisted really: Nick Nack is entirely in Scaramanga’s service, both personally and professionally…but he’s also striving desperately to get his boss killed so that he can take over his estate. Scaramanga himself is perfectly fine with Nick Nack’s conflicting motivations, in fact, he is the one who set this screwy situation up in the first place! But Scaramanga’s rivalry with Bond, mirrored by Bond’s attempt at impersonating Scaramanga for Hi Fat (an attempt that consists of nothing more than Bond wearing an ersatz third nipple while on an otherwise pointless invasion of Hi Fat‘s home) is the true emotional center of this story. No wonder I find the story so unsatisfactory! Scaramanga sets up his own failure, Nick Nack is left impotently cursing at the “big bully” who has imprisoned him in a suitcase, and our McGuffin (the solex agitator, which promises boundless solar energy and the solution to all mankind’s woes) is never actually allowed to have any impact on the world as we know it. At least Bond manages to have his way with a woman that he doesn’t really care for, so I guess that’s what we can expect from the Roger Moore edition of James Bond. Sadistic in its own empty way, I suppose, and ultimately far less than satisfying.

    MUSIC 2.5/5 I must count myself among those who strongly dislike this theme song. It’s easily among the bottom five themes in my estimation. All around, the music for this outing is just not among Barry’s better efforts. It’s better than some of what the future holds in store for us, but that’s damning the sound track with faint praise.

    LOCATIONS 4/5 The settings are among this movie’s stronger points. The mushroom islands provide a particularly striking visual. Scaramanga’s island headquarters, complete with fun house/obstacle course, gourmet kitchen and solar generator, is tremendously entertaining but doesn’t really make a lot of sense when looked at from any kind of rational perspective. When did Scaramanga find the time to get all this solar stuff installed, if he only recently took over Hi Fat’s criminal empire? Oh, never mind, there I go trying to find logic in a movie that refuses to be bound such by petty concerns… M’s office in the half-sunken Queen Elizabeth gives us another great visual, but it opens the door to a practice that I find an annoying addition to the Bond series: M popping up out in the field to oversee Bond’s globe-trotting adventures. Those who feel that Judi Dench got too involved in Bond’s missions, take note: it all started here.

    GADGETS 2/5 There are some nice gadgets here…but they all belong to the villain of this movie! All Bond gets is a fake third nipple…Scaramanga has a flying car, a big ol’ laser , the solex agitator, and that famous Golden Gun. I don’t think Q’s been pulling his weight of late…

    SUPPORTING CAST 2/5 “Oh, shut up, Q!” Man, M is really grumpy in this film…he’s mad at Bond, he’s mad at Q -- the only one he doesn’t seem to be mad at is Goodnight, probably because he’s saving that task for the audience. But really, the supporting cast in this movie is either out of place (J.W. Pepper) walking through the scenery aimlessly (Q and Moneypenny) or flat-out embarrassing (Lt. Hip’s kung fu nieces.) Some of the supporting characters (Colthorpe? Was that his name?) are barely even introduced at all. They’re on screen, they say their lines and get out…but we have no reason to care if we ever see them again.

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS 28/50 I cannot remember ever being so disappointed with a Bond film as I was upon exiting the theatre at the close of The Man With the Golden Gun. For the first time, I could see some small kernel of wisdom in the sentiments being expressed by the growing ranks of doubters and nay-sayers who suggested that James Bond’s time in the sun may have come…and gone. James Bond would return, of course…but would he ever regain the magic that seemed so completely lost with the series’ new (lack of) direction?

    THE END of this review
    BUT: BeatlesSansEarmuffs will return in a few weeks
    To review The Spy Who Loved Me
  • PS: Yes, the rigors of summer require that I miss another week or so before returning to these reviews. Look for me down in San Diego this coming weekend, folks: I'll be at ComicCon for the first time in way too long!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,655
    MUSIC 2.5/5 I must count myself among those who strongly dislike this theme song. It’s easily among the bottom five theme in my estimation. All around, the music for this outing is just not among Barry’s better efforts. It’s better than some of what the future holds in store for us, but that’s damning the sound track with faint praise.

    Ho, that's like saying 'a minor da Vinci masterpiece.' Pardon me dude, but I think you're way off the mark here. If you don't like LULU'S SONG, that's one thing...
    Barry rushed out a beautiful, even haunting score IMO.
    What about it was bad? Too many horns? I hear the score in my head on demand, I can't even locate anything not at least really good in it.... can you cite a scene that you were displeased with?
  • I didn't say it was BAD. Just grading on the curve for what Barry's given us previously. You've said that he "rushed out" the score to this particular film. And yes, people do discuss "minor" efforts from the likes of DaVinci in just this way...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,655
    And yes, people do discuss "minor" efforts from the likes of DaVinci in just this way...
    Fair enough.
    :)>-
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I didn't say it was BAD. Just grading on the curve for what Barry's given us previously. You've said that he "rushed out" the score to this particular film. And yes, people do discuss "minor" efforts from the likes of DaVinci in just this way...

    Exactly. With Barry it is just like any other talented people found in various creative fields spanning from authors to visual artists, filmmakers, and musicians. Even the talented creators have their worst work, but that isn't to say that said work is bad, it is just that their other work is so tremendously magnificent that those efforts have to be ranked under their best. After all, I think we can all agree that Barry is the master of the Bond sound, no contest. ^:)^
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