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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,882
    Given he's in all of 2 scenes, I don't get the John Terry hate. Sure, he's rather flat in his line delivery but at least he gives the rather throw-away role some believability. I can see him as a contemporary of Dalton Bond.

    Compare that to guys like Cec Linder and Norman Burton. Linder in particular, who resembles Rodney Dangerfield, takes me out of GF every time and is one of the factors in making the film somewhat overrated as an overall experience. I realize that Lord was asked back but was demanding and dismissed, but the Eon went the low route by grabbing a guy like Linder just to fill in. Lines like "Let's get back to the hotel, I'm bushed" really date it.

    Lord also is somewhat overrated to me. He has the looks, but he's almost Jack Webb-like in some of his delivery. Would anybody remember him if he didn't become a pop culture hero from the original Hawaii 5-0?

    Discussions on here really have me thinking about Koskov. For years I've felt he and Whitaker drag down an otherwise top-notch Bond film, but maybe there's something worth reevaluating the film, which I watched twice during its anniversary in 2017.

    I think if they'd have included at least one scene of Koskov doing something vicious to show the true deceit behind the charming boob façade it would've gone a long way. Part of that disappointment was having previously seen Krabbe play such a villain in an average cop thriller with Richard Gere where he was cold-blooded.

    Koskov does admittedly make for a change from the mad Russian generals like Orlov and Ourumov. Whitaker is still pretty desperate.

  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,500
    Agreed. Hard to blame Terry for the fact that the scripts writers didn't bother to give him an actual role...

    The best Leiters are Lord and Wright hands down! No contest really.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,104
    If the Razzie Awards existed in the 70s, Clifton James would have been nominated (possibly even won) for worst supporting for both LALD and TMWTGG. Britt Ekland would have been definitely nominated for worst supporting actress, for TMWTGG.
  • jobojobo
    edited December 2018 Posts: 7,500
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    If the Razzie Awards existed in the 70s, Clifton James would have been nominated (possibly even won) for worst supporting for both LALD and TMWTGG. Britt Ekland would have been definitely nominated for worst supporting actress, for TMWTGG.


    Nah. Clifton James only does what he is hired to do. And I think he does a decent job actualy. The character is ridiculous, pantomine and completely out of place in Bond, sure. But again, I wouldn't blame the actor.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    Clifton James was an excellent actor, actually.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I've always liked James in both films as well. He fits in seamlessly with the tone.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    Controversial opinion:

    I prefer the Roger Moore era regulars: Bernard Lee's M (and Robert Brown), Lois Maxwell, Desmond Llewellyn's Q, Minister of Defence (Geoffrey Keen) and General Gogol over today's Scooby Gang.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I prefer the Roger Moore era regulars: Bernard Lee's M (and Robert Brown), Lois Maxwell, Desmond Llewellyn's Q, Minister of Defence (Geoffrey Keen) and General Gogol over today's Scooby Gang.
    I don't think that's controversial. They were all quite excellent. They had gravitas.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I prefer the Roger Moore era regulars: Bernard Lee's M (and Robert Brown), Lois Maxwell, Desmond Llewellyn's Q, Minister of Defence (Geoffrey Keen) and General Gogol over today's Scooby Gang.
    I don't think that's controversial. They were all quite excellent. They had gravitas.
    Better make that three.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    I suppose it's more controversial that Brown's M is included, but I always felt he was underrated in the role.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited December 2018 Posts: 17,274
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I prefer the Roger Moore era regulars: Bernard Lee's M (and Robert Brown), Lois Maxwell, Desmond Llewellyn's Q, Minister of Defence (Geoffrey Keen) and General Gogol over today's Scooby Gang.
    I don't think that's controversial. They were all quite excellent. They had gravitas.
    Better make that three.

    Or four! Loved the Roger Moore era regulars. That era really knew how to use those actors well – from M and Moneypenny appearing in Bonds apartment in LALD, to Gray, M and Bond meeting up in Venice to check out the secret laboratory.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Originality was still the norm, back then.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    I always liked the Frederick Gray character. HMMM.

    I miss characters like him and Gogol, really.
    Damn I miss Smithers, too.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I always liked the Frederick Gray character. HMMM.

    I miss characters like him and Gogol, really.
    Damn I miss Smithers, too.
    Smithers was great. Frederick Gray was also a hoot, no doubt. Such an amusing grump.

    I also really liked Douglas Wilmer's Jim Fanning. I wish we could have seen a bit more of him, although I realize his speciality was art. He was excellent in OP.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    Douglas Wilmer was great. Also in some SAINT episodes and Hammer horror films.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,801
    I remember after LTK hoping the regulars would return in B17.
    Maybe incorporate General Pushkin?

    Oh well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I remember after LTK hoping the regulars would return in B17.
    Maybe incorporate General Pushkin?

    Oh well.
    Rhys Davies as Pushkin could have easily worked instead of Mishkin in GE (although I thought Tcheky Karyo was excellent). He and Brosnan worked together very well in 1988's The Noble House miniseries.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Q was definitely a big fan service. Didn't make sense and felt shoehorned, but still... all's fair in the love of Desmond Llewelyn?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,816
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    What was wrong with Whittaker?

    Baker was just a loud mouth bully. I never felt the menace. Koskov was poorly written, otherwise he would have been great. Krabbe had what it takes to play Blofeld.
    That's what Whittaker was, though. Even his background suggested exactly that, which fit his personality.

    I agree about Krabbe being a great actor and a possible fit for Blofeld in the Dalton era. But, Koskov was ridiculously bad. They should've made him something akin to Kronsteen, considering he was mentoring Necros under his wing, it would've been very fitting. Instead, they made him a clown.

    No argument from me about Koskov, he's a good idea gone terribly bad.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2018 Posts: 7,966
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought that LTK worked better without a support team. In fact one of my biggest (and there are only a few) complaints about the film is the insertion of Q. It doesn't make sense, and those scenes do not work with the rest of the picture. I like Caroline Bliss as Moneypenny, but those quick cut aways were useless and a distraction. We have hat one great M scene, and that's enough.

    Bliss I really don't like as Moneypenny, neither do i Like Samantha. Monneypenny should have something motherly over her, beautiful and professional. At least the current MP has the professional part right, and she has something caring as well. Bliss end Samantha don't, at all.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,260
    My Moneypenny ranking:

    1. Maxwell
    2. Harris
    3. Bliss
    4. Bond
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ranking the Moneypennys, I'd go with:

    1. Maxwell - The definitive Moneypenny
    2. Bond - Runner-up
    3. Bliss - Generic auto-pilot secretary
    4. Harris - Great character, but nothing that resembles Moneypenny's persona
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,816
    LTK has a far better villain, however (controversial opinion coming) : the plot is far weaker, basically a straight vengeance story like they had in almost every 80s action movie.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,104
    Ludovico wrote: »
    LTK has a far better villain, however (controversial opinion coming) : the plot is far weaker, basically a straight vengeance story like they had in almost every 80s action movie.

    I agree with you, but Bond always seems to follow current trends.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,816
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    LTK has a far better villain, however (controversial opinion coming) : the plot is far weaker, basically a straight vengeance story like they had in almost every 80s action movie.

    I agree with you, but Bond always seems to follow current trends.

    I know, but they do have their own sensibility. I always felt like LTK was an action movie with Bond having one long cameo.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,882
    I used to look forward to the office team scenes years ago. It was fun to anticipate where Q would pop up or where M and Bond would meet. Even if it was just in the office.

    My enthusiasm really waned with the Brosnan era when Dench's M was written to come off as a ball-buster and MP joining in becoming a feminist spouting terrible lines, and then goes the complete opposite direction in DAD as part of a cheap joke. I did like Robinson, who seemed like somebody who could be a strong agent.

    At least they knew their place and aren't all over the place like now. I've often said it's less like a James Bond movie and more like Eon's Agents of Mi6 featuring James Bond.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Ranking the Moneypennys, I'd go with:

    1. Maxwell - The definitive Moneypenny
    2. Bond - Runner-up
    3. Bliss - Generic auto-pilot secretary
    4. Harris - Great character, but nothing that resembles Moneypenny's persona

    Same ranking as mine.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    I don't think this is controversial but I think Michael Kitchen is without a doubt the best Tanner. Bignfan of Robinson as well.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Remington wrote: »
    I don't think this is controversial but I think Michael Kitchen is without a doubt the best Tanner. Bignfan of Robinson as well.
    Not controversial at all. To me, Kitchen is the only credible Tanner. And Robinson should've become a major regular in the Bond franchise.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought that LTK worked better without a support team. In fact one of my biggest (and there are only a few) complaints about the film is the insertion of Q. It doesn't make sense, and those scenes do not work with the rest of the picture. I like Caroline Bliss as Moneypenny, but those quick cut aways were useless and a distraction. We have hat one great M scene, and that's enough.

    Bliss I really don't like as Moneypenny, neither do i Like Samantha. Monneypenny should have something motherly over her, beautiful and professional. At least the current MP has the professional part right, and she has something caring as well. Bliss end Samantha don't, at all.
    Are you saying Harris isn't beautiful? ;). Seriously though, I think she is hands down the worst thing about the revamped Gang. That isn't MP to me. Too much of a tomboy and just seems forced into the girly thing they tried to make her do in SP and at the end of SF.

    --
    Remington wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Ranking the Moneypennys, I'd go with:

    1. Maxwell - The definitive Moneypenny
    2. Bond - Runner-up
    3. Bliss - Generic auto-pilot secretary
    4. Harris - Great character, but nothing that resembles Moneypenny's persona

    Same ranking as mine.
    +2

    --
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I don't think this is controversial but I think Michael Kitchen is without a doubt the best Tanner. Bignfan of Robinson as well.
    Not controversial at all. To me, Kitchen is the only credible Tanner. And Robinson should've become a major regular in the Bond franchise.
    Agreed.

    --
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I used to look forward to the office team scenes years ago. It was fun to anticipate where Q would pop up or where M and Bond would meet. Even if it was just in the office.

    My enthusiasm really waned with the Brosnan era when Dench's M was written to come off as a ball-buster and MP joining in becoming a feminist spouting terrible lines, and then goes the complete opposite direction in DAD as part of a cheap joke. I did like Robinson, who seemed like somebody who could be a strong agent.

    At least they knew their place and aren't all over the place like now. I've often said it's less like a James Bond movie and more like Eon's Agents of Mi6 featuring James Bond.
    There was a certain coherence about the old crew and the films. Despite tonal variations, one felt a certain grip overseeing the whole thing. It's quite different these days. One doesn't know what to expect in a way. That's fine when they try something new, but I feel they screw up whenever they try to go back to formula, and that includes the 'Gang'. They haven't got a clue.
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