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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    If Daniel Craig were not to do the next 007 but we get a new kid I would not mind. I am all done with Craigs 007.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    SaintMark wrote: »
    If Daniel Craig were not to do the next 007 but we get a new kid I would not mind. I am all done with Craigs 007.
    I can completely relate and believe they've missed a prime opportunity for a much needed reset. Poor planning on their part as far as I'm concerned because if they wanted Craig they should have gotten the next out this year and finished it off rather than dragging on for another 2 years. Still, let's see what they come up with.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    Bond 25 could be a bottom-tier Bond film and I’d still lean positive on the Craig era.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    And if it’s the best Bond film ever?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,503
    I'm torn on his overall ranking with half his era ranking dead last and the other half making my Top 7-ish (haven't checked it in ages). I guess B25 will be the tiebreaker of sorts for me.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    Right now my feelings about them are:

    CR - The Best Bond film ever. As perfect as it gets.
    QoS - Good, but not great. Somewhere in the middle of my ranking.
    SF - Great, top-tier Bond in most aspects. Top 10 easily.
    SP - Average. Pretty decent first two thirds overall, but a very weak third act.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    CR & SF reside in my top 10 (although CR has dropped out of my top five recently, replaced by DN). QoS is somewhere in the 15-17 range if I recall correctly and SP is somewhere around 20. He won't be able to do anything with B25 to improve his personal rank for me. He will remain 3 behind Sean and Rog.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    FoxRox wrote: »
    And if it’s the best Bond film ever?

    Interesting question.

    If we dismiss the weakest entry/entries of the actors who have done 5 films and over to have everyone on an even keel of their 5 best films that would leave:

    Sean - DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT
    Rog - LALD, TSWLM, MR, FYEO, OP
    Dan - CR, QOS, SF, SP, B25

    I don't think Rog's films would hold up against CR, SF and B25 (best Bond ever) as even QOS and SP can go toe to toe with LALD and MR so it comes down to Sean v Dan.

    As we're assuming it's the 'best Bond ever' if we replace B25 with OHMSS is that a better set of films than Sean's first 5?

    Literally a fag paper between them. But even though TB bores me and the first half of YOLT isn't great I'd still say Sean shades it. But then if B25 is actually better than OHMSS who knows? The Craig era could yet go down as the greatest.

    Except it won't because B25 isn't going to be the best of all time. That's Leicester winning the Premier League odds and those odds don't come in twice in one lifetime.

    Obviously that only means the era has a better set of films. The performances as Bond are an entirely different debate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Surely this is all in the eye of the beholder anyway? There are some who prefer DAD to FRWL, so folks will look at the films from their personal perspective.

    I can't remember what the 'average' rank of these films is on this site. I know there was some contest done a few months back.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    And if it’s the best Bond film ever?

    Interesting question.

    If we dismiss the weakest entry/entries of the actors who have done 5 films and over to have everyone on an even keel of their 5 best films that would leave:

    Sean - DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT
    Rog - LALD, TSWLM, MR, FYEO, OP
    Dan - CR, QOS, SF, SP, B25

    I don't think Rog's films would hold up against CR, SF and B25 (best Bond ever) as even QOS and SP can go toe to toe with LALD and MR so it comes down to Sean v Dan.

    As we're assuming it's the 'best Bond ever' if we replace B25 with OHMSS is that a better set of films than Sean's first 5?

    Literally a fag paper between them. But even though TB bores me and the first half of YOLT isn't great I'd still say Sean shades it. But then if B25 is actually better than OHMSS who knows? The Craig era could yet go down as the greatest.

    Except it won't because B25 isn't going to be the best of all time. That's Leicester winning the Premier League odds and those odds don't come in twice in one lifetime.

    Obviously that only means the era has a better set of films. The performances as Bond are an entirely different debate.

    I know it's not likely at all; just throwing out the possibility. Even if Bond 25 is Top 10 material it will be 100% solidified as my second favorite to Connery's era.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    https://screenrant.com/skyfall-alternate-story-ending-details-m/

    Has anyone else seen this? Would have turned SF from one of my favorites to maybe my least favorite Bond film. Wow.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    FoxRox wrote: »
    https://screenrant.com/skyfall-alternate-story-ending-details-m/

    Has anyone else seen this? Would have turned SF from one of my favorites to maybe my least favorite Bond film. Wow.

    That would have been terrible. It actually would have been worse than Tamahori's idea to have old Connery-Bond mentor Brosnan-Bond. This is something worse than the code name theory, and that's saying a lot.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    I know. So relieved it didn’t happen. Same with the idea of making M a traitor in SP.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    These writers really have entered into full-on soap opera territory if those are the kind of ideas they're considering.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    Tanner can die. That would be ok.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,276
    We will see. Nothing is really set in stone.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    That's a very insightful article. It sort of mirrors my own thoughts on the Bond films of the last 20 odd years. He's right in that it's unwise to stray too far from formula.

    That earlier idea for SF demonstrates why P&W must go, sooner rather than later. Useless.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    That earlier idea for SF demonstrates why P&W must go, sooner rather than later. Useless.

    Staggering that these clowns are continuing to get away with coming up with shite like this with the only safety mechanism seemingly Babs and MGW. And as we have seen this is nowhere near robust enough, with stepbrothergate getting through and M being a traitor almost making it on the flight but for eagle eyed Fiennes at airport security noticing P&W trying to sneak a giant bomb on board.

    These hacks represent a clear and present danger to the character and with such sloppy security to prevent their insane notions getting through it's only a matter of when not if a Bond film crashes with all hands. Remember the terrorists only need to succeed once.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    What a shit idea that was for SF.
    Now i'm even more concerned for B25.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    It was Peter Morgan’s idea for his, Once Upon a Spy, pitch. P+W were asked to polish the turd, but weren’t batting for it, hence it ended up on the scrap heap - M’s death being the only remnant of those early drafts.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    FoxRox wrote: »
    https://screenrant.com/skyfall-alternate-story-ending-details-m/

    Has anyone else seen this? Would have turned SF from one of my favorites to maybe my least favorite Bond film. Wow.

    Like it or not, but at least it would have been real drama and not the soapy melodram we got.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Can someone explain to me why they think it's such a terrible idea? Doesn't sound bad to me at all.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,844
    Wasn't Bond killing M an idea of Peter Morgan that was abandoned quickly when he left? And the stepbrother angle seems more like a Logan idea.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me why they think it's such a terrible idea? Doesn't sound bad to me at all.

    'a flashback shows a young M during the Cold War having an affair with a KGB agent. This leads to a modern day plotline in which the bad guys blackmail M. Stunningly, the story ended with Bond killing M to protect the service.'

    So Craig's M has been a traitor all along from the start of CR? And they are just rehashing Vesper's story but with M instead?

    If people really can't see why P&W's desperation to foist poor man's Le Carre plotlines upon us and have everything revolving about the increasingly irritating and dysfunctional MI6 family is a bad idea I really do despair.

    Stop getting Bond wrong!!! Just give us an honest to goodness film where the fate of the world depends on one man.

    I don't give two shits about M's backstory, Q's cats, MP's fridge and Tanner's err well just Tanner in general.

    Alas my Mariana Trench low expectations for B25 have sunk even further having read this article as not only did they try for it for SF they tried to resurrect it for SP. It's clear it's something they are keen on and Babs & MGW are too seeing as it was greenlit and only Fiennes blocking it saved us. Once he leaves (after the Craig era?) we are getting this storyline.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    I think you misread this. She isn't supposed to be a traitor from the beginning but someone from her past is coming and starting to blackmail her.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    I think you misread this. She isn't supposed to be a traitor from the beginning but someone from her past is coming and starting to blackmail her.

    We'll she's been shagging someone from the KGB mate. Pretty sure if she mentions that in the interview for head of MI6 she's dead in the water. Not a traitor technically I guess but serious security risk and still a shit idea.
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    Many a M I six agent has shagged Russian spies. A certain James Bond comes to mind.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    a shit idea indeed. My God, what were they thinking? And still the last three Bond films suffer so much from poor writing. It is so annoying since it is actually not so extremely difficult to write a satisfying story. Why not just make SPECTRE to be the larger than life organisation it used to be. Give them a larger than life plan and go for it. Give us a great climax, some interesting side characters, some unexpected but serious twists, interesting locations, an exiting score and skip all the emotional bullshit we have now seen in every Bond film.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    Christ, I miss the Cold War :-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    Many a M I six agent has shagged Russian spies. A certain James Bond comes to mind.

    Only for Queen and Country old son.
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