Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.
  • Posts: 12,267
    It's not one of Moore's best performances, but I do particularly like his disdain for Zorin. He has this anger for him that he didn't display for any of the other villains he faced.
  • Posts: 15,804
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm extremely nostalgic for AVTAK, part of the reason why I enjoy it so much.

    I had a blast the Sunday afternoon my folks took me to see it. Then I can remember how much an event it felt like when the film was released on VHS towards the end of the year.
    Pretty much every other kid in my class who loved Bond named AVTAK as their favorite film in the series.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It's not one of Moore's best performances, but I do particularly like his disdain for Zorin. He has this anger for him that he didn't display for any of the other villains he faced.
    That's certainly true. There's nothing wrong with Moore's performance in AVTAK imho. It's a harder edged take in a way. Just the age thing for me.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,929
    For many years I didn't think much of AVTAK, but only this year I started watching it more, and really enjoy it now.

    I notice many members comment on how we see Zorin's psychopath fully come to fruition during the mine massacre - I may find him at his creepiest when he shoots Howe and delivers the line, "That's rather neat, don't you think?" Perhaps because he is showing less emotion here. Just look at his face when he says it. Truly evil!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,724
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It's not one of Moore's best performances, but I do particularly like his disdain for Zorin. He has this anger for him that he didn't display for any of the other villains he faced.

    That anger begins with the death of Tibbett. Also, Bond comes to understand Zorin delights in violence, unlike say, Stromberg, who mostly uses it as a means to an end.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    I also think that AVTAK is the strongest "departing entry" of the long-running Bonds, although its competition is unfortunately quite lackluster.
  • Posts: 12,267
    I also think that AVTAK is the strongest "departing entry" of the long-running Bonds, although its competition is unfortunately quite lackluster.

    Exactly. Connery's DAF and Brosnan's DAD are two of the series' absolute weakest. I'll be interested to see where Craig's sendoff ranks for me among the 4 long-running Bonds.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    @FoxRox - Indeed. I've got DAF and DAD at the bottom with TMWTGG, and AVTAK just above those (but I would probably distinguish them as separate tiers).

    Really interested to see if Craig joins them in the dumps with Bond 25 or if he blows us away with another CR-esque thriller.
  • Posts: 7,500
    When did this turn into an AVTAK appreciation thread? Find a room! (By that I mean the actual, existing AVTAK Appreciation Thread) ;)
  • Posts: 12,267
    It'd be awesome to see a great Bond film be a sendoff for once for a long-running actor. I love both OHMSS and LTK, but both Lazenby and Dalton did not get a lot of time as Bond. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I'm cautiously optimistic they can give Craig the best sendoff of the long-running Bonds.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,267
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The only thing that gives me hope is that they seem to have learned their lesson from SP. I expect (wish for) the antithesis next time around.

    Obviously we have different feelings about SP, but I still agree that it is preferable to get something very different and more standalone next time. Waiting for news these days on Bond 25 is just painful.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    They should really do away with the whole idea of trying to link one Bond movie to the next. The Bond movie's longevity as a series owes a lot to the fact that it didn't try to spawn countless sequels of the one movie, which is bound to end in failure. An endless supply of standalone entries is what Bond was about up until Craig came along.

    I suspect that's why CR and SF were so good: they forgot about the preceding Bond movie. Whereas QoS was a direct sequel that nobody asked for and SP was a pointless attempt at tying in the previous few entries (which, again, nobody asked for).

    The one time we really would've wanted a sequel in the classic era was after OHMSS, and we were instead treated to DAF...
  • Posts: 12,267
    SP may not be the prettiest follow-up, but it sure beats DAF coming right after OHMSS. SP’s callbacks are just meh and uninspired for the most part; the good part was Mr. White’s return. QoS and SP both suffer on rewatchability because of their reliance on other Bond movies. CR and SF work perfectly by themselves or within Craig’s series.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    FoxRox wrote: »
    SP may not be the prettiest follow-up, but it sure beats DAF coming right after OHMSS. SP’s callbacks are just meh and uninspired for the most part; the good part was Mr. White’s return. QoS and SP both suffer on rewatchability because of their reliance on other Bond movies. CR and SF work perfectly by themselves or within Craig’s series.

    My point is DAF doesn't even remotely feel like a sequel. It just doesn't follow off OHMSS at all save for the half-hearted "revenge" search that Bond undertakes in the PTS. No emotion at all when he confronts Blofeld. That, along with the general tone of the movie, suggests to me that they were deliberately trying to leave OHMSS behind and move in a new, campy direction rather than create proper adaptations of Fleming's works.
  • Posts: 12,267
    True. It’s a shame OHMSS was treated so badly back when it first came out. I’m pleased it is now recognized as one of the greatest Bond films, and much superior to DAF.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    FoxRox wrote: »
    True. It’s a shame OHMSS was treated so badly back when it first came out. I’m pleased it is now recognized as one of the greatest Bond films, and much superior to DAF.

    I guess it's worth noting that the Bond franchise is more of a populist one than a critical one. It's not made to appeal to critics, but to the general population. So box office revenue is more important than critic's reviews. OHMSS was by far the weakest performing at the box office up until then (and I believe it took until the mid-80's for Bond to see numbers of that sort again), which combined with Lazenby not coming back for more would've made the film seem like a failed experiment.

    So from that angle, it's understandable that they would've opted for a different direction. And that approach was validated by the box office results of the 70's, which were a definite bounce back from the nadir of OHMSS.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The box-office low until LTK was TMWTGG.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    True. It’s a shame OHMSS was treated so badly back when it first came out. I’m pleased it is now recognized as one of the greatest Bond films, and much superior to DAF.

    I guess it's worth noting that the Bond franchise is more of a populist one than a critical one. It's not made to appeal to critics, but to the general population. So box office revenue is more important than critic's reviews. OHMSS was by far the weakest performing at the box office up until then (and I believe it took until the mid-80's for Bond to see numbers of that sort again), which combined with Lazenby not coming back for more would've made the film seem like a failed experiment.

    So from that angle, it's understandable that they would've opted for a different direction. And that approach was validated by the box office results of the 70's, which were a definite bounce back from the nadir of OHMSS.
    Good points. I agree.
    The box-office low until LTK was TMWTGG.
    That's true and they did change direction for TSWLM. It was as big and proud as they come, right down to the memorable title song. A real statement of intent. Moreover, LALD was a massive smash, so they probably felt there wasn't any need for a more drastic change.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    bondjames wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It's not one of Moore's best performances, but I do particularly like his disdain for Zorin. He has this anger for him that he didn't display for any of the other villains he faced.
    That's certainly true. There's nothing wrong with Moore's performance in AVTAK imho. It's a harder edged take in a way. Just the age thing for me.

    This. I like Rogers performance in this, particularly his utter contempt for Zorin as mentioned above. He was just a bit too old by this point to be believable.
  • Posts: 14,824
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.
  • Posts: 15,804
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    Can we think of any other good examples when this classic line could have been used?

    Certainly when Jaws lifts him up by the throat and the bollocks in the train carriage in TSWLM springs to mind.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    Can we think of any other good examples when this classic line could have been used?



    When M scolds him in TMWTGG.
  • Posts: 15,804
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    Can we think of any other good examples when this classic line could have been used?

    Certainly when Jaws lifts him up by the throat and the bollocks in the train carriage in TSWLM springs to mind.

    He almost does it when Tee-Hee gives him a nice punch to the stomach. There are probably a few instances while hanging on the helicopter in FYEO where he could have done it.
    A few more I'd say could be: pushed out of the plane in MR, the instant he skis off the Asgard, and him rising out of the chair after sleeping all night with Stacey's cat in him lap as his back must have been stiff.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2017 Posts: 9,117
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    Can we think of any other good examples when this classic line could have been used?



    When M scolds him in TMWTGG.

    As he falls out of the plane in MR?

    When Mr Big rips his face off?

    When he drives the Lotus off the pier?

    Have to say I don't think there are many scenes that can't be improved by inserting an OWWWHHRROOOHHHH.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    When he out of some moral sense has to turn down Bibi s invitation.
  • Posts: 15,804
    The slide whistle during the spiral jump most certainly should have been replaced by an OWWWHHRROOOHHHH.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,013
    The gunbarrel.
  • Instead of the Tarzan yell in Octopussy
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